Is this romantic scenario interesting? Would readers lose sympathy for h or H?

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crossword

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I want a romantic scenario that would give reason for strong emotions, conflict, guilt, and bitterness between h and H. Would this work:

Cerise and Declan are childhood sweethearts who grew up in a small town. When they graduated high school at 18, both went to LA and shared an apartment and did odd jobs while auditioning. They decide to give it a few years before they quit trying to break into acting.


Then one day Cerise is offered a leading role in a film helmed by Phil Anders, a big Hollywood director. She’s thrilled. Phil the director takes a warm personal interest in her, saying she has a wealth of acting talent. He gives her some one on one coaching.


Initially Declan is thrilled for her, then he starts to get uneasy. He feels Cerise has a crush on Phil the director. To some extent that is understandable; Phil’s a big name, he has talent, its no wonder Cerise admires and looks up to him. But Declan starts to feel threatened and says it looks like Phil has more than a professional interest in her.


Cerise dismisses all his concerns, insisting there is nothing romantic about her admiration for Phil. He is her mentor, thats all.


And if he dsoes seem attracted to her, so what? There is no way she is going to encourage him there. “we’re in a profession where we’re exposed to beautiful, talented people all the time,” she tells Declan. “we need to decide now how to handle it. If you get suspicious every time I work closely with another man, how will this relationship ever work? We need to trust each other. there’s never been anyone else for me but you and there never will be.”


Phil turns out to be a Bill Cosby type creep. One day when he invites her to his home for another private coaching session, he drugs her coffee and rapes her. Then he puts her in a cab and the driver delivers her back to the apartment she shares with Declan.


Seeing her dishevelled state, Declan initially believes she slept with Phil. She says she was drugged; he doesn't believe her.

So the next day she takes a test that proves drugs were in her system. Declan even briefly wonders whether she voluntarily took drugs and had sex with Phil, and she sees he is entertaining that suspicion. She is so devastated by his distrust that Declan realizes she was telling the truth.


He apologizes and they try to report Phil but realize no one believes them, not the police, not the lawyer they consult. Plus any hope for a Hollywood career is doomed if they expose Phil.

So they give up. But the damage has been done to their relationship.


She feels: “he should have trusted me. How could he possibly have thought I cheated on him?”


he feels and says: “You should never have been alone with him to begin with. I told you how insecure it made me feel and you didn't care enough about my feelings to back away from him.”


she replies: “Its my career; how could I have shown anything but gratitude for the professional interest he seemed to take in me? And how could anyone guess someone so famous would be a rapist? No wonder the police and lawyer didn't believe us. Who could think a guy that famous couldn’t get women to voluntarily sleep with him?”


they stay together for some months but the damage has been done. there’s a rift that they cant mend. She feels he is blaming her for the rape instead of being a hundred percent supportive of her at a time when she is dealing with the aftermath of rape.

So they split up and later start relationships with other people but feel they never have with anyone what they had with each other.


They meet five years later. Both have a part in a new movie or tv series helmed by Phil. Sparks fly between them again and they start to fall in love. But they never resolved their former resentment and the reasons they broke up.


She is more resentful than him because she feels: “he was the person I loved most in the world and my best friend. And at my time of greatest need, when i’d just been raped, he wasn’t there for me. Physically he was, but he was so clearly even if silently blaming me, he was no support to me at all and made me feel worse.”


Then Phil is murdered and the suspects are many. The police suspect it could be Cerise and Declan, since the police dig up the fact that five years ago Cerise filed a complaint against Phil.

Meanwhile the police learn Phil also drugged and raped another actress on the set...and in fact dozens of other women over the years.


Do you think this scenario works while keeping the reader sympathetic to both Cerise and Declan?


I want there to be a reason they are both murder suspects, and I also want there to be reasons they now conflict even though they are drawn to each other.


Both finally admit they could have acted better 5 years ago. She admits she should have backed away from Phil since it made Declan so insecure. He says he feels terrible that he made her feel to blame for the rape. But they only admit this later; when they first meet, the resentment they felt in the past still exist.


How would you rate the above story idea: very interesting or moderately interesting or blah? Would it make you want to read the novel or would you think, its a rather stale idea? i’ve never read anything like it but that doesn't mean it hasnt been done.

I think it has emotional potential and I want something like that; I want strong reasons they clash and distrust each other at first. I want there to be some emotional baggage between them.


it might be more powerful if I were to show their relationship disintegrating in real time. That is, I show them in love, then the rape, they struggle to deal with that but then get back together by the end of the murder investigation.


I hesitate to do that because I don't want to write a heroine who is dealing with the immediate aftermath of sexual assault. True, she doesn't remember the rape but that doesn't mean she doesn't know it happened. I tend to write light stuff and rape is not a topic I could diminish by writing lightly about it. I don't like to write dark, heavy stuff, so I think it would be best if it was something that happened far enough in the past that she has dealt with it, though feelings of anger toward Phil could resurface when she is working with him.


Thanks for any feedback.
 

cornflake

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I want a romantic scenario that would give reason for strong emotions, conflict, guilt, and bitterness between h and H. Would this work:

Cerise and Declan are childhood sweethearts who grew up in a small town. When they graduated high school at 18, both went to LA and shared an apartment and did odd jobs while auditioning. They decide to give it a few years before they quit trying to break into acting.


Then one day Cerise is offered a leading role in a film helmed by Phil Anders, a big Hollywood director. She’s thrilled. Phil the director takes a warm personal interest in her, saying she has a wealth of acting talent. He gives her some one on one coaching.


Initially Declan is thrilled for her, then he starts to get uneasy. He feels Cerise has a crush on Phil the director. To some extent that is understandable; Phil’s a big name, he has talent, its no wonder Cerise admires and looks up to him. But Declan starts to feel threatened and says it looks like Phil has more than a professional interest in her.


Cerise dismisses all his concerns, insisting there is nothing romantic about her admiration for Phil. He is her mentor, thats all.


And if he dsoes seem attracted to her, so what? There is no way she is going to encourage him there. “we’re in a profession where we’re exposed to beautiful, talented people all the time,” she tells Declan. “we need to decide now how to handle it. If you get suspicious every time I work closely with another man, how will this relationship ever work? We need to trust each other. there’s never been anyone else for me but you and there never will be.”


Phil turns out to be a Bill Cosby type creep. One day when he invites her to his home for another private coaching session, he drugs her coffee and rapes her. Then he puts her in a cab and the driver delivers her back to the apartment she shares with Declan.


Seeing her dishevelled state, Declan initially believes she slept with Phil. She says she was drugged; he doesn't believe her.

So the next day she takes a test that proves drugs were in her system. Declan even briefly wonders whether she voluntarily took drugs and had sex with Phil, and she sees he is entertaining that suspicion. She is so devastated by his distrust that Declan realizes she was telling the truth.

So he's an ass.

He apologizes and they try to report Phil but realize no one believes them, not the police, not the lawyer they consult. Plus any hope for a Hollywood career is doomed if they expose Phil.

Ok, they're both kind of asses.

So they give up. But the damage has been done to their relationship.


She feels: “he should have trusted me. How could he possibly have thought I cheated on him?”


he feels and says: “You should never have been alone with him to begin with. I told you how insecure it made me feel and you didn't care enough about my feelings to back away from him.”

He's definitely an ass, and quite the pig, imo.

she replies: “Its my career; how could I have shown anything but gratitude for the professional interest he seemed to take in me? And how could anyone guess someone so famous would be a rapist? No wonder the police and lawyer didn't believe us. Who could think a guy that famous couldn’t get women to voluntarily sleep with him?”

And she's not that bright.

they stay together for some months but the damage has been done. there’s a rift that they cant mend. She feels he is blaming her for the rape instead of being a hundred percent supportive of her at a time when she is dealing with the aftermath of rape.

So they split up and later start relationships with other people but feel they never have with anyone what they had with each other.


They meet five years later. Both have a part in a new movie or tv series helmed by Phil. Both assholes. Sparks fly between them again and they start to fall in love. But they never resolved their former resentment and the reasons they broke up.


She is more resentful than him because she feels: “he was the person I loved most in the world and my best friend. And at my time of greatest need, when i’d just been raped, he wasn’t there for me. Physically he was, but he was so clearly even if silently blaming me, he was no support to me at all and made me feel worse.”

Says the woman basically turned a blind eye to a rapist for her career.

Then Phil is murdered and the suspects are many. The police suspect it could be Cerise and Declan, since the police dig up the fact that five years ago Cerise filed a complaint against Phil.

I thought they didn't believe her - this is confusing.

Meanwhile the police learn Phil also drugged and raped another actress on the set...and in fact dozens of other women over the years.


Do you think this scenario works while keeping the reader sympathetic to both Cerise and Declan?

Not this one; they're assholes.

I want there to be a reason they are both murder suspects, and I also want there to be reasons they now conflict even though they are drawn to each other.


Both finally admit they could have acted better 5 years ago. She admits she should have backed away from Phil since it made Declan so insecure. Oh, they are both just terrible people. He says he feels terrible that he made her feel to blame for the rape. But they only admit this later; when they first meet, the resentment they felt in the past still exist.


How would you rate the above story idea: very interesting or moderately interesting or blah? Would it make you want to read the novel or would you think, its a rather stale idea? I think it's very SVU, ripped from the headlines. i’ve never read anything like it but that doesn't mean it hasnt been done.

I think it has emotional potential and I want something like that; I want strong reasons they clash and distrust each other at first. I want there to be some emotional baggage between them.


it might be more powerful if I were to show their relationship disintegrating in real time. That is, I show them in love, then the rape, they struggle to deal with that but then get back together by the end of the murder investigation.


I hesitate to do that because I don't want to write a heroine who is dealing with the immediate aftermath of sexual assault. True, she doesn't remember the rape but that doesn't mean she doesn't know it happened. I tend to write light stuff and rape is not a topic I could diminish by writing lightly about it. I don't like to write dark, heavy stuff, so I think it would be best if it was something that happened far enough in the past that she has dealt with it, though feelings of anger toward Phil could resurface when she is working with him.


Thanks for any feedback.

See le bleu. Someone else may feel differently.
 

Evelyn_Alexie

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I could see their behavior making sense up to the point of the rape if you portray them both as very young and naive.
After the rape... I can see Cornflake's point. Perhaps it is realistic that some actors would do anything to get a part, even agree to work for a man who drugged and raped them/their girlfriend. I can't imagine it, but I'm not an actor. I don't think this scenario would make sense to those reading it unless they themselves are also actors.

It might work if they don't know Phil is behind the film they're working on. Could he be a hidden backer? If no one believes they didn't know he was involved, they could still be suspects. They definitely have motive.
 
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MAS

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Just a few thoughts. First, it strains my credibility that the police would not investigate a complaint like this. Based on conversations with a friend of mine who is a police detective, I think they would investigate, and possibly prosecute if Cerise is willing to testify. But lots of victims don't report rapes because they can't face the trauma of the trial (recall the way the Cosby plaintiffs were vilified). So maybe it would make more sense if she just decides not to report the rape at all, and after the murder the police would have to find out about it some other way.

Second, I am concerned about the book not dealing realistically with rape and the effects of rape. A friend of mine was raped, and without going into any detail, I'll just say that it has taken her probably 30+ years to come to terms with it, it really messed up her perception of herself and her sense of self-worth. But the proposed plot line seems to dodge that issue and suggests that Cerise is all over it, that she's her same old self when she sees Declan again. I think the rape would have made her a quite different person, someone who wears a mask a lot because of the trauma that has been shoved down deep and not dealt with. I think that if you are going to have a character who is a rape survivor, you will have to deal with that trauma. As an alternative, might you consider having Cerise just barely escape being raped, rather than actually having it happen? That would result in a lot less trauma, but the characters could have the same mutual recriminations as they would if the rape had actually occurred.

Third, it strains my credibility that Cerise and Declan would both work for the person that they know raped Cerise. That implicitly condones the rape, and at that point, you would lose me as a romance reader. In some other genre it might work, but not as a romance, at least not for me. They'd be too closed off from their own integrity to work as H/h of a romance.

Just my opinion, FWIW.
 

Marian Perera

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Initially Declan is thrilled for her, then he starts to get uneasy. He feels Cerise has a crush on Phil the director. To some extent that is understandable; Phil’s a big name, he has talent, its no wonder Cerise admires and looks up to him. But Declan starts to feel threatened and says it looks like Phil has more than a professional interest in her.

Just to clarify, what's romantic about a man who's insecure that his girlfriend is working with someone who's famous and talented?

Seeing her dishevelled state, Declan initially believes she slept with Phil. She says she was drugged; he doesn't believe her.

I dislike him even more now.

So the next day she takes a test that proves drugs were in her system. Declan even briefly wonders whether she voluntarily took drugs and had sex with Phil,

This is the point where I stop reading the (hypothetical) book, because Declan has crossed the line from jerk to asshole. If I did keep reading, I would hope that either she found a better man, or Declan did a great deal to redeem himself. An apology is nowhere near enough.

And no, if a woman's partner is insecure because that woman works with a talented famous man, it's not up to the woman to stop working with that man so the partner will now feel better. If this is Cerise's take-home message - that she is responsible for Declan's insecurity - there's no way I would want to read this.

ETA : I'm also concerned that this perpetuates the incorrect and damaging idea that rape is a crime of sex and attraction (to wit : Cerise saying, "Who could think a guy that famous couldn’t get women to voluntarily sleep with him?"). It's not about getting someone to sleep with you. It's about having the power to control another person. This is why many rapists have consensual relationships with their wives or girlfriends, but go out and commit rape anyway.

If you want to write accurately about rape, do a lot of research into it.
 
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Beanie5

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might be too real world for romance.
 

Putputt

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Many people have pointed out exactly why your plot as it stands is extremely unpalatable, so I won't bother with that. But this:

I hesitate to do that because I don't want to write a heroine who is dealing with the immediate aftermath of sexual assault. True, she doesn't remember the rape but that doesn't mean she doesn't know it happened. I tend to write light stuff and rape is not a topic I could diminish by writing lightly about it. I don't like to write dark, heavy stuff, so I think it would be best if it was something that happened far enough in the past that she has dealt with it, though feelings of anger toward Phil could resurface when she is working with him.

There are about a million things you can come up with that will fit what you need perfectly. Rape is a very heavy, very complex subject and this may sound harsh, but your plot shows me that you haven't done nearly enough research to tackle it. Your plot as it stands sends a lot of terrible messages and is going to be very harmful.

And so my feedback would be to come up with a conflict that is entirely removed from rape. It's often the go-to for writers because it comes with ready-made drama and we're exposed to so much of it in books and TV and movies. I know this, I've fallen into the trap myself when I was thinking up a plot for my third book: "I need a reason for the MC to kill her teacher...oh, rape?" NOPE. It shocked me that it was the first idea that popped into my head, but it makes sense. I am a product of society. But that doesn't mean I can't challenge myself and come up with something more original.

You need a conflict big enough to ruin the two MC's relationship, but not so big that the two of them wouldn't ever work with Phil ever again. Something that allows the MMC to suspect the FMC without being an abusive asshole who doesn't believe his girlfriend when she tells him she was sexually assaulted.

Maybe MMC and FMC were working on a script together, which brings them closer. Their respect for each other grows ("She's so brilliant!" "He's so creative!"), and then FMC accidentally reveals enough of the premise to Phil such that he's able to steal the idea, or maybe she was careless with her phone and Phil sees the idea or whatever. Phil announces his new movie, which is their story, and MMC thinks she did it on purpose so she'd get a big part or whateverballs. They try to report it, but get laughed out of the police station. Imagine how gutting it would be if you find out someone stole your work and there's nothing you can do about it. MMC can be angry without being an ass. They break up. Years down the road, when they're both more experienced, they're willing to work under Phil because they think all they have to do is to be careful around him and they'd be okay. Then Phil ends up murdered, and so on and so forth.

Or, you know, literally anything else aside from the rape trope.
 

mccardey

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I'm not a fan of anything that seems to suggest that the rape of a woman presents an equal level of difficulty for the man in her life.

Not a fan of that aspect.
 

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I think its a topic worth exploring. The scenario where the police dont believe her, but then later take her seriously is faithful to whats actually gone on in the last decade or so. There are plenty of stories of women coming forward now against the police departments that bullied and shamed them to remain quiet about their sexual assault complaints and the law has definitely changed how they handle the charges. For that reason, the story merits telling.

However, in the story you're telling, Declan is a big shit and I'd never forgive him. Its one thing for the police to refuse to acknowledge the enormity of a rape, (they dont know you personally) but its quite another for the man who is supposed to love you basically saying I told you so: if you'd listened to me, it never would have happened. You were asking for it by not listening to me. BLECH. Its not that you cant write this. I definitely think the topic merits exploration. But as a device to tear a young couple apart and have them patch it up later, you might find when you write it that its very difficult to make Cerise convincingly forgive Declan.

If the focus of your story is to be their reconcilliation, then I think you're going to have to find a way to tear them apart that makes them equally complicit and equally blameless, if that makes sense. Have you been watching Ozark? Thats a great example of a story where there is love after cheating. Its complicated, its realistic and its emotionally gripping.
 
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yoghurtelf

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To me it sounds like the focus of the story wouldn't be the rape / recovery for the victim, but rather the romantic relationship where the guy has supposedly been wronged. For that reason, I'd leave rape out of it, if that's the focus you want the story to have.

I'm sure there are plenty of other scenarios you could come up with - maybe the directer one of them works with is someone who got away with murdering the hero's best friend or dad or something, and when the woman works for him (because she's desperate because she has her own story, e.g. a family that really needs her monetary support 'cause one is sick or something...), the guy feels betrayed and angry, but the girl is like "I neeeeeed to do this!"

Or something.
 

Twick

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Declan will need one hell of a redemption arc. One where he admits he was not just an idiot but in a way complicit with her rape. And to do it justice, it would have to look at a lot of very dark things about society. Like how can a woman find her way professionally if being alone with a man in a professional capacity is "asking for it"?

This is something that you have to do right or not at all. If you're uncomfortable, I'd advise shelving this plot until you feel you can do it fully.
 

Tazlima

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Long ago, before I learned to recognize red flags, I dated a guy like the H described here. Jealousy is not a pretty emotion, and it's anything but romantic. It's a form of control.

I was in college at the time, and BF often met me after school so we could walk home together. I remember one particular incident where I had missed a portion of class, and I spotted a male classmate as I was exiting the building. I stopped and asked him what the homework assignment was. He told me, I wrote it down, and that was the extent of our interaction.

Well, BF had watched me talking to this guy and, despite the fact that the interaction was completely innocuous, he got super-jealous. He accused me of sleeping with my classmate, and all kind of other nonsense. I tried to explain I was just asking about the homework, and even showed him what I'd written down, but he refused to believe me and acted all pissy for the rest of the evening. After that, I was careful not to talk to other guys in front of BF, even though I knew I hadn't done anything wrong.

See? Control.

I turned down a lead role in a play during that time because there was a kiss scene and I knew my boyfriend would flip out over it. Looking back, I would have done much better to take the part and ditch the loser.

And let's say that male classmate (who was a perfectly nice fellow) had, at a later date, raped me? Would my boyfriend have been justified in his jealous bitching and moaning? Would he have had a legitimate reason to say "I told you so?" Of course not. If he had said, "Listen, I heard rumors about that particular guy drugging girls and raping them. Be careful around him, OK?" then maybe he'd have a leg to stand on. But "I irrationally think you're fucking him, and therefore you deserve it that he raped you?"

Just...no.
 
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crossword

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thanks, everyone. i’m not disputing what any of you say. So many of you have voiced the same objections that I accept they are valid.




here’s what I don't get: i’ve read or heard of so many books where the h and H act despicable and those books sell well. Theres a whole genre where the h agrees to sleep with the H for money to pay her college tuition or something, eg Brenna Aubrey’s At Any Price. I have that one but havent read it yet. She was offered a six figure advance for 3 books but chose to self publish and said she didn't regret it since she made more money that way.



I read there are lots of books with that kind of premise and for some reason the woman is considered sympathetic rather than prostituting herself.



We know that in romance there’s a ton of books featuring the alphahole hero, one who acts like a total jerk and controls the h, who either eats up his abuse and comes back for more or else acts bratty and childish and does stupid things to show him he cant boss her around.



I could go on...my point is, if those stories do so well, isn’t it possible many readers might love the premise i’ve outlined in my OP?



I agree I should not have her be actually raped since that would be too traumatic and heavy. I read the supermodel Beverly escaped being raped because when she tasted her coffee she knew it was drugged and so she started yelling at Cosby, “what have you put in my coffee?” I could have it happen that way with my h.



But I’m not sure readers would hate a hero who said: “You should have listened to me. I always felt there was something off about him and it was obvious he was giving you one on one coaching because he wanted to get into your pants.”



yes my h was naïve and my H a jerk. But that’s what gives both room to grow while conflicting.



Re the police not believing them: I read the article written by one of Cosby’s early accusers. Except for her close circle of friends, no one believed her. She consulted a lawyer; he didn't believe her. I don't recall if she went to the police but she got the message no one would believe her, so she dropped it.



Re working for the would be rapist again: Madonna, Lady Gaga, Rose McGowan have all revealed they were raped in their early days. None reported it. Why? I assume they knew they would suffer as Roman Polanski’s victim did. She never worked in Hollywood again, she endured endless publicity but lost her career.



H’wood closes ranks against outsiders and supports rapists, especially if theyre big names. It looks like those determined to make it in H’wood accept that and don't report rapes. Rose has hinted who it was and some say it is a very powerful well known guy.



It may not be what you would do but people do it. Aspiring actors desperate to make it big do let abuse go; I suspect they even work for their abuser again if it advances their career. I don't think I have to make my characters perfectly moral or ethical. Stories arise out of mistakes characters make.



Your thoughts?
 

cornflake

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thanks, everyone. i’m not disputing what any of you say. So many of you have voiced the same objections that I accept they are valid.

Are you sure?

here’s what I don't get: i’ve read or heard of so many books where the h and H act despicable and those books sell well. Theres a whole genre where the h agrees to sleep with the H for money to pay her college tuition or something, eg Brenna Aubrey’s At Any Price. I have that one but havent read it yet. She was offered a six figure advance for 3 books but chose to self publish and said she didn't regret it since she made more money that way.



I read there are lots of books with that kind of premise and for some reason the woman is considered sympathetic rather than prostituting herself.

I don't even know where to START here. First, this has literally nothing to do with your scenario. Nothing. Second, why are you separating prostitution from the possibility of being a sympathetic character? Those aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think prostitution (among consenting adults -- and I know I may get pushback here, but I get exploitation leading to narrowed choices and forced-not-forced, but I'm talking about actual, freely-choosing consenting adults) is despicable. What the hell do I care what consenting adults do? This, again, has NOTHING to do with your scenario.


We know that in romance there’s a ton of books featuring the alphahole hero, one who acts like a total jerk and controls the h, who either eats up his abuse and comes back for more or else acts bratty and childish and does stupid things to show him he cant boss her around.


I could go on...my point is, if those stories do so well, isn’t it possible many readers might love the premise i’ve outlined in my OP?

Anything is possible. You asked. There seems to be a consensus. You seem to not believe us. Your choice, but then why ask?

I agree I should not have her be actually raped since that would be too traumatic and heavy. I read the supermodel Beverly escaped being raped because when she tasted her coffee she knew it was drugged and so she started yelling at Cosby, “what have you put in my coffee?” I could have it happen that way with my h.


But I’m not sure readers would hate a hero who said: “You should have listened to me. I always felt there was something off about him and it was obvious he was giving you one on one coaching because he wanted to get into your pants.”


yes my h was naïve and my H a jerk. But that’s what gives both room to grow while conflicting.

Or, they're both assholes. Potato, potahto.

Re the police not believing them: I read the article written by one of Cosby’s early accusers. Except for her close circle of friends, no one believed her. She consulted a lawyer; he didn't believe her. I don't recall if she went to the police but she got the message no one would believe her, so she dropped it.

There's a difference between those things.

Re working for the would be rapist again: Madonna, Lady Gaga, Rose McGowan have all revealed they were raped in their early days. None reported it. Why? I assume they knew they would suffer as Roman Polanski’s victim did. She never worked in Hollywood again, she endured endless publicity but lost her career.

What does this have to do with working for him?

H’wood closes ranks against outsiders and supports rapists, especially if theyre big names. It looks like those determined to make it in H’wood accept that and don't report rapes. Rose has hinted who it was and some say it is a very powerful well known guy.


It may not be what you would do but people do it. Aspiring actors desperate to make it big do let abuse go; I suspect they even work for their abuser again if it advances their career. I don't think I have to make my characters perfectly moral or ethical. Stories arise out of mistakes characters make.


Your thoughts?

No, you don't have to make your characters perfectly moral. You don't have to make them likable. You can write your characters as offputting assholes. Do people have sympathy for Tony Soprano? No. He's an asshole. He's an interesting character, but he's an amoral asshole who does terrible shit.


You asked if people would have sympathy. No.
 

Marian Perera

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here’s what I don't get: i’ve read or heard of so many books where the h and H act despicable and those books sell well. Theres a whole genre where the h agrees to sleep with the H for money to pay her college tuition or something, eg Brenna Aubrey’s At Any Price.

How is this despicable? No one's being raped, and no one's betraying anyone's trust.

Unless you define "despicable" as "having sex in exchange for money"?

I read there are lots of books with that kind of premise and for some reason the woman is considered sympathetic rather than prostituting herself.

I'm confused as to why you think a woman who prostitutes herself cannot be a sympathetic character.

We know that in romance there’s a ton of books featuring the alphahole hero, one who acts like a total jerk and controls the h, who either eats up his abuse and comes back for more or else acts bratty and childish and does stupid things to show him he cant boss her around.

And some of those books come in for as much criticism as your scenario did.

I could go on...my point is, if those stories do so well, isn’t it possible many readers might love the premise i’ve outlined in my OP?

If you feel many readers will love your premise, go ahead and write it.

Seriously. Rather than starting yet another thread to ask what people think of a premise, write a story and send it out or self-publish it.

But I’m not sure readers would hate a hero who said: “You should have listened to me. I always felt there was something off about him and it was obvious he was giving you one on one coaching because he wanted to get into your pants.”

Don't make the mistake of thinking, "Romances sell even if heroes are assholes in certain ways. Therefore, my hero can be an asshole in a completely different way and my romance should sell too."

Regardless, if you think there are readers out there who will love this hero, write the story.
There's no point in providing long explanations of why your characters make sense to you and why people work for their rapists in Hollywood. It won't make me think that now the premise sounds very romantic and exciting. It still doesn't work for me. But if it works for you, write the story.
 
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shizu

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But I’m not sure readers would hate a hero who said: “You should have listened to me. I always felt there was something off about him and it was obvious he was giving you one on one coaching because he wanted to get into your pants.”

Maybe 'hate' is a strong term, but you really can't see why a predominantly female readership -- in what is, often, an exploration of a fantasy, escapist sort of romance -- wouldn't enjoy reading about the same kind of high-handed, shaming, mansplaining they have to deal with on a regular basis in real life?

Especially on a topic as sensitive -- and again, sadly, all too common in real life -- as rape or sexual assault?

Especially from the man whose positioned to be the most intimate, trusted person in the heroine's life?

(Also, being the victim of sexual assault doesn't make someone "naive" -- women having a reasonable expectation to be able to conduct their professional lives without the threat of rape isn't "naive", or "acting depiscably" or in any way comparable to someone freely choosing to exchange sex for money).

We get the "you were asking for it, you should've done what I said and it wouldn't have happened, you're complicit in your own assault because you just didn't listen to my superior advice" in real life, sometimes even from the men we thought we could trust, who we thought would support us. I sincerely can't imagine many women want to read about it in a romance novel. In women's fiction, perhaps, or literary fiction, where the author can explore the implications of that in a sensitive, nuanced way. But as a romance plot device to cause friction between your characters? No.
 

mccardey

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[h=2]Is this romantic scenario interesting? Would readers lose sympathy for h or H?[/h]
Your mistake was in asking us how "readers" would feel, but I can only tell you how I would feel.
Thanks for any feedback.

You asked, you got it. It's up to you to listen or to dismiss it, or something in between. Your book, your decision.
 

Beanie5

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Is shades of grey a romance or something else its a matter of defenition your book doesn't sound uninteresting or unrealistic , just on what is there not so romantic.
 

Marissa D

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Maybe 'hate' is a strong term, but you really can't see why a predominantly female readership -- in what is, often, an exploration of a fantasy, escapist sort of romance -- wouldn't enjoy reading about the same kind of high-handed, shaming, mansplaining they have to deal with on a regular basis in real life?

Especially on a topic as sensitive -- and again, sadly, all too common in real life -- as rape or sexual assault?

Especially from the man whose positioned to be the most intimate, trusted person in the heroine's life?

(Also, being the victim of sexual assault doesn't make someone "naive" -- women having a reasonable expectation to be able to conduct their professional lives without the threat of rape isn't "naive", or "acting depiscably" or in any way comparable to someone freely choosing to exchange sex for money).

We get the "you were asking for it, you should've done what I said and it wouldn't have happened, you're complicit in your own assault because you just didn't listen to my superior advice" in real life, sometimes even from the men we thought we could trust, who we thought would support us. I sincerely can't imagine many women want to read about it in a romance novel. In women's fiction, perhaps, or literary fiction, where the author can explore the implications of that in a sensitive, nuanced way. But as a romance plot device to cause friction between your characters? No.

Yes, yes, yes. All of this.
 

AW Admin

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I see no point in this thread continuing. The op has had the question answered. The fact that a poster doesn't like a response doesn't make it any less valid.

Moreover, romancing rape, as has been pointed out, is not appropriate for the genre of romance.

Finally, there's a host of problems involved in writing about rape from the POV of a woman for a predominantly female readership, and dismissing the victim.
 
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