5k plus 5% of the book. . .

bubbletuna73

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Quick summary:

Finished my fiction novel January and secured an agent.

A year prior to that I hired an editor who used to be an agent for Simon & Schuster. I paid him $5k, and he did a "global edit," meaning he modified the story somewhat, helped me trim the book from 200k+ words to $114k, but didn't do a line by line edit critiquing the prose. He offered to do that kind of edit for an additional $6k. I passed. I'm a former english major, current attorney, and have many friends whose opinions I trust. I didn't think another 6k was money well spent.

I self-edited with the help of several volunteer readers several times.

The agent sent the manuscript to 20 publishers. About 10 of them have rejected it, and the rest have yet to respond (she tells me they may never).

She and I had a very candid conversation today in which she told me she loves the story, but finds the writing only "adequate." She may be right, who knows? I'll readily admit that most (but not all), of the readers who read my manuscript are my friends or family, so perhaps they withheld honest criticism. She also told me she'd be willing to send a newly edited version of my work out to the same people who have already rejected it, and to those who still haven't responded. She said she has two people who work through her, though she says they're not her employees. She says they charge between 4-5k, and would ask for 5% of the book. She's taking 15% as it is. She told me the money should be paid through her, and she would generate a 1099 for the agents.

There are a lot of red flags here for me. But you know, it's a writer's ultimate dream, blah blah blah. I can afford it, though not without a good pinch. Is this normal, for her to accept money on behalf of editors she says aren't her employees? Is the 1099 thing normal? Is it customary for them to want a %? She says she thinks that a good thing because they have something invested, which I guess I can see. I asked whether I shouldn't just go back to the other editor, who's asking 6k but with no %, and she said, "well, he clearly didn't do a good enough job the first time."

The optimist in me says, "she's right, giving a percentage would motivate them. Plus, if they work with her, they likely know what sells and what doesn't. She does have a large number of published authors to her name, so she's clearly capable. And yes, by the time you sell it, you may have spent more than you'll ever get back, but it's not really about money right? It's about seeing your name in print, etc., etc."

The pessimist says, well, you all know what kinds of things he's saying, because you're probably getting ready to type those things right now.

Any advice?

Thanks :)
 

mccardey

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Two things - have you checked your agent out in the threads here?

Also -
she told me she loves the story, but finds the writing only "adequate." She may be right, who knows? I'll readily admit that most (but not all), of the readers who read my manuscript are my friends or family, so perhaps they withheld honest criticism.
It doesn't mean they've withheld. They may not read the genre, or they may not be very demanding readers, or they may not know what the market is doing at the moment. In any case, if they know you well, they're reading in your own voice - which strangers won't. So although it can be helpful for some people to have family/friends read for them (some people hate it; I hate it) - it won't be the same as having a market read. So don't feel bad about that - they were very sweet to to make the effort. :Sun:
 
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Richard White

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No, it doesn't sound normal to me.

In the past, when agents have been recommending "editors" to their clients, either the editors worked for the agent albeit through another company the agent just happened to own OR they were getting a kickback from the editors for sending them clients. Either way, the agent was not earning money by "selling" the client's book to a publisher for their commission.

I can't speak to your specific situation without knowing who represents you, but on initial read, it doesn't really pass the smell test.
 

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Quick summary:

Finished my fiction novel January and secured an agent.

A year prior to that I hired an editor who used to be an agent for Simon & Schuster. I paid him $5k, and he did a "global edit," meaning he modified the story somewhat, helped me trim the book from 200k+ words to $114k, but didn't do a line by line edit critiquing the prose. He offered to do that kind of edit for an additional $6k. I passed. I'm a former english major, current attorney, and have many friends whose opinions I trust. I didn't think another 6k was money well spent.

I haven't seen your writing so can't be sure, but I fear that editor overcharged you.

I self-edited with the help of several volunteer readers several times.

The agent sent the manuscript to 20 publishers. About 10 of them have rejected it, and the rest have yet to respond (she tells me they may never).

She and I had a very candid conversation today in which she told me she loves the story, but finds the writing only "adequate."

If she only found your writing "adequate" she shouldn't have offered you representation. Who is she? This does not sound good to me.

She may be right, who knows? I'll readily admit that most (but not all), of the readers who read my manuscript are my friends or family, so perhaps they withheld honest criticism. She also told me she'd be willing to send a newly edited version of my work out to the same people who have already rejected it, and to those who still haven't responded.

No.

It's gone out. She doesn't get a second bite of this particular apple. Getting the book edited further is not going to change anyone's mind. Be very careful here: it does not sound good to me.

She said she has two people who work through her, though she says they're not her employees. She says they charge between 4-5k, and would ask for 5% of the book. She's taking 15% as it is. She told me the money should be paid through her, and she would generate a 1099 for the agents.

No! NO! NOOO!!!

Editors don't get a share of writers' royalties. This is flat-out wrong. Don't do it.

There are a lot of red flags here for me. But you know, it's a writer's ultimate dream, blah blah blah. I can afford it, though not without a good pinch. Is this normal, for her to accept money on behalf of editors she says aren't her employees? Is the 1099 thing normal? Is it customary for them to want a %? She says she thinks that a good thing because they have something invested, which I guess I can see. I asked whether I shouldn't just go back to the other editor, who's asking 6k but with no %, and she said, "well, he clearly didn't do a good enough job the first time."

The optimist in me says, "she's right, giving a percentage would motivate them. Plus, if they work with her, they likely know what sells and what doesn't. She does have a large number of published authors to her name, so she's clearly capable. And yes, by the time you sell it, you may have spent more than you'll ever get back, but it's not really about money right? It's about seeing your name in print, etc., etc."

The pessimist says, well, you all know what kinds of things he's saying, because you're probably getting ready to type those things right now.

Any advice?

Thanks :)

My agent recently worked with me on a novel I'd written, to get it as good as it could be before submission. I got editorial notes and lots of support to rework the book. I didn't have to pay for that help. It was covered by the agency. There was never a hint that the editors should get a share of my book for their work.

She's asking you to pay for editing through an initial flat fee (which is very high) AND through giving a share of the book to that editor. That is paying twice for something you shouldn't have to pay for at all.

She's ripping you off.

She's offering you hope that isn't there.

Get a full list of submissions from her, along with comments from the editors she's already heard from, and then dump her. She is not doing well for you. This is not how good agents work.
 

bubbletuna73

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Hmmm

I haven't seen your writing so can't be sure, but I fear that editor overcharged you.



If she only found your writing "adequate" she shouldn't have offered you representation. Who is she? This does not sound good to me.



No.

It's gone out. She doesn't get a second bite of this particular apple. Getting the book edited further is not going to change anyone's mind. Be very careful here: it does not sound good to me.



No! NO! NOOO!!!

Editors don't get a share of writers' royalties. This is flat-out wrong. Don't do it.



My agent recently worked with me on a novel I'd written, to get it as good as it could be before submission. I got editorial notes and lots of support to rework the book. I didn't have to pay for that help. It was covered by the agency. There was never a hint that the editors should get a share of my book for their work.

She's asking you to pay for editing through an initial flat fee (which is very high) AND through giving a share of the book to that editor. That is paying twice for something you shouldn't have to pay for at all.

She's ripping you off.

She's offering you hope that isn't there.

Get a full list of submissions from her, along with comments from the editors she's already heard from, and then dump her. She is not doing well for you. This is not how good agents work.




During our first discussion she did talk about editing that the publishing house, if one signed on, would handle. She never offered any free editing, and has never spoken a word about her feelings regarding the book, other than today, 8 months later, when she made the comment about the writing being "adequate." In fact, the incident that inspired our little talk today was me asking, when she brought up the idea about the editors, whether she had in fact even read the book.

I want to believe she's as distressed about the book not selling as I am, and is offering the only thing she can to try to fix it up. You guys know how hard it is to get an agent. I looked for months. I'm worried if I drop her I'll be right back to where I started, without an agent, and having already burned bridges with 20 (including all the big ones) publishers. If it's just not good enough to be published, fine, I can handle that. But I've never once heard that.

Conflicted. . .
 

Dennis E. Taylor

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Do beta readers. Arms-length. Specifically give them an abbreviated version of this story and ask them to comment on your writing style, whether it's engaging, has voice, etc. You can ask for beta readers on this forum, although you'll have more luck with that after you've been around a while; you can join betabooks.co; you can go to scribophile and try to get into the Beta Swap group (they're starting a cycle right now. It may or may not be too late for this cycle); or you can go to kboards.com and search for paid beta reader readers. Kboards is all about self-pub authors and they have a very active vendor section, and you can get lots of feedback from members.

Bottom line, you need to establish your base data. Once you know if your writing is actually "marginal" or "adequate", you can decide your strategy from there. Also, as mentioned above, check out your agent on bewares for warnings.
 
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mystere

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An agent for Simon and Schuster? What is that? They're a publishing house.

A freelance faceless editor getting royalties from your book is insanity.

You know, your experience is eerily similar to mine, except the ripoff editor and the ripoff agent were the same person. And I fortunately didn't fork over thousands.

Feel free to PM me if you want to compare notes.
 

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Okay, so these are the questions I have after reading this untunacanny story several times:

-where'd you find this editor?
-Again, what is an agent at Simon and Schuster? What's his name? Feel free to PM me. I want to know what he did.
-a global edit is something writers do, typically not editors. Editors offer developmental, line editing, proofreading, etc. Not even writers use this term often.
-This agent has worked with many authors, but she told you some publishing editors may never get back to her? Bullshit. Agents take pride in their relationships with publishing editors, and they often lunch together if they live in the same city. The editor would keep in touch with the agent and your agent would touch back with the editor to see if they have begun reading. This is how it works. I have seen it firsthand.
-Who are the writers this agent has repped? I bet she hasn't repped *****. No author can be successful with an agent like this.
-Where'd you find the agent?
-Who are these lousy editors that need a percentage to be motivated to edit? I have one of the greatest editors in the world, and she charged me pennies after she felt so bad I was ripped off. She is not filthy rich. She is not associated with an agent.



Something about this whole story is very, very weird and it comes less than 24 hours after I posted a very similar story. Again. Weird.
 
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VeryBigBeard

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Hello, and :welcome: bubbletuna73.

This smells very off t me as well. I was also thrown by the "agent with S&S" line, and by the referral scheme. How does 5% of "the book" work with an editor, given any future publisher would have its own royalty rate, likely based on a percentage of cover price? Would these editors be taking 5% of your cut? That's non-standard language and if it's language the agent used, run like hell.

Agents sometimes do developmental work on a book if they think it will increase its chances of sale, but publishers don't require this for submission. Most publishers have their own editors who will work with the book. Any kind of editing before a contract is signed should be something the author initiates. (Even an agent would usually say something along the lines of "I like X and Y about this book but want to change A to B and C to D, are you interested in working through that?)

In general, when Old Hack says something, you can rest assured that she knows what she is talking about. What she suggests--get the list of submissions made and dump the agent--sounds like the right move to me.

You're actually in not a bad spot if she's only subbed it a few times, as, depending on where it was subbed, there may still be places either a better agent or you yourself could submit. While it's natural to be unsure if the book is good enough, trust yourself and, if you think it's ready to take the trial, see what happens. Worst case, it doesn't catch on with agents or publishers, which is tough but by the time you've waited around for their response you've (ideally) written and polished another book. This entire process works without any payment being exchanged until after the book earns money (either an advance or royalties).

Yog's Law: Money flows towards the writer.

Always.

Hang around here and, when you get 50 posts, you can get feedback in SYW or seek out a beta reader who can help you figure out the book's chances. You'll also learn a lot about publishing here through osmosis, including from Yog himself, whose main educational thread can be found here. It's worth a read.
 

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Quick summary:

Finished my fiction novel January and secured an agent.

Not for nothing, but don't say fiction novel, please, and if you said that in your query I am immediately suspicious of this agent.

A year prior to that I hired an editor who used to be an agent for Simon & Schuster. A what? Is that a typo? I paid him $5k, and he did a "global edit," meaning he modified the story somewhat, helped me trim the book from 200k+ words to $114k, but didn't do a line by line edit critiquing the prose. This sounds odd. He offered to do that kind of edit for an additional $6k. The hell? I can go downtown and fetch you a copyeditor at the goddamned New Yorker who will do it for a good sum less than that. I passed. I'm a former english major, current attorney, and have many friends whose opinions I trust. I didn't think another 6k was money well spent.

I self-edited with the help of several volunteer readers several times.

The agent sent the manuscript to 20 publishers. About 10 of them have rejected it, and the rest have yet to respond (she tells me they may never). Has she sent you these rejections? The text of them? Do you know the people she's submitted it to?

She and I had a very candid conversation today in which she told me she loves the story, but finds the writing only "adequate." Hold up. She finds the writing adequate, but she sent it out on sub? Oh, hell no. Why? That's her rep too. That makes no sense.

She may be right, who knows? I'll readily admit that most (but not all), of the readers who read my manuscript are my friends or family, so perhaps they withheld honest criticism. She also told me she'd be willing to send a newly edited version of my work out to the same people who have already rejected it, and to those who still haven't responded. What? How edited? Editing for what? She said she has two people who work through her, though she says they're not her employees. She says they charge between 4-5k, and would ask for 5% of the book. NO. NO NO NO NO NO. Never. I have never, would never, know no one who would. That's not a thing. I have done ten tons of research including interviews that formed a big part of a book -- even finding someone no one knew about, and spending a long time convincing him to finally spill his secrets. You know what I got for that? The fee I signed on for. That's it. No percentage of the book. That is nuts. She's taking 15% as it is. She told me the money should be paid through her, and she would generate a 1099 for the agents. :Wha:

There are a lot of red flags here for me. But you know, it's a writer's ultimate dream, blah blah blah. I can afford it, though not without a good pinch. Is this normal, for her to accept money on behalf of editors she says aren't her employees? NO. Is the 1099 thing normal? NO. Is it customary for them to want a %? Hell no. She says she thinks that a good thing because they have something invested, which I guess I can see. To edit?? No. I asked whether I shouldn't just go back to the other editor, who's asking 6k but with no %, and she said, "well, he clearly didn't do a good enough job the first time." Did SHE give you no notes? Who is this?

The optimist in me says, "she's right, giving a percentage would motivate them. Plus, if they work with her, they likely know what sells and what doesn't. She does have a large number of published authors to her name, so she's clearly capable. And yes, by the time you sell it, you may have spent more than you'll ever get back, but it's not really about money right? It's about seeing your name in print, etc., etc."

The pessimist says, well, you all know what kinds of things he's saying, because you're probably getting ready to type those things right now.

Any advice?

Thanks :)

This is not normal, or ok. I am very suspicious of this whole thing. I get you've invested a lot already, but this is very odd and non-standard behaviour.
 

mystere

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I've been chatting with the OP. She doesn't want me using names but I hope she doesn't mind me saying this:
-the agent has been red flagged on here numerous times before and for a decade
-the editor has been mentioned briefly as kinda shady, but nothing concrete. I guess not anymore!
-I advised OP to contact Victoria Strauss as Richard White et al did for me.

I was thinking for a brief moment OP may have fallen foul of the same person I fell afoul of. Turns out not. How very weird, the commonalities in how crooked people are in this industry. It's really uncanny.

OP let me know if you want me to delete any of what I said.
 

James D. Macdonald

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1) This isn't how publishing works.

2) Write to Victoria at Writer Beware ([email protected]) and tell her what you just told us, only including names and original documents. She'll keep it confidential. (Question: Did this agent charge a fee up-front?)

3) Drop this agent like a bad habit. (Editors don't return her phone calls? Really?)

4) Find a better agent. (Remember: A useful agent has sold books that you've heard of.)

5) While all this is going on write a new, different, better book.
 

bubbletuna73

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Thank-you all for your help. Rather than respond to each person with a separate message, let me make some general comments:

I noticed my flub in writing "fiction novel" immediately after I posted it. Thanks for pointing out the redundancy. No, my query didn't contain any such missteps.

The guy formerly with Simon and Schuster is Alan Rinzler, out of San Francisco. I feel okay naming him because I don't think he did anything wrong. I'm not "outing" him by any means. He's very expensive, but nobody held a gun to my head. I looked through a lot of editors, and he seemed reputable, and read my manuscript, in its much larger form, in about 2 days without asking a penny. I was impressed by that (probably naively, okay), and asked his prices. He told me 11k, which I basically laughed at, and then he agreed to the somewhat cursory edit we finally settled on at 5k. In retrospect, it was a lot of money, but who knows, maybe the book was in such a state he earned every penny. I honestly don't have the slightest clue at this point whether it's good, bad, or fit only for emergency out-house use.

Mystere, I don't mind anything in your post. It was all fine. I did in fact research my agent before I signed. I saw the negative posts, but there were also positive ones. She has in fact helped many people to publish, notable authors in fact. Beyond that, to be completely honest, I had queried upwards of 30 agents with no interest. I felt a bit desperate. I routinely hear, "just write another book," but that, of course, is easier said than done. I'm a single father of four and a full time attorney (I know, stop whining, we're all busy). But mostly, I believe in the one I wrote.

I don't honestly think she's crooked -- more lazy than crooked really. In my opinion she doesn't actually read the books she takes on (that was my suggestion this week that led her to bring up these % based editors). Rather, she asks for a very detailed marketing workup by the author, something no other agent I looked into ever suggested. She then simply emails the materials you yourself prepared, and hopes something sticks. When it does, she lets the publisher edit the book, and reaps the rewards. When it doesn't, she offers editing work as a last ditch effort to skin a few ragged dollars off your thoroughly defeated hide.

I'm not here asking for anyone's sympathy; this is a difficult industry. I guess what I would like to know (and some of you have kind of answered this for me already), is whether I should consider my "fiction novel," :) dead in the water, so to speak. My agent did in fact give me a list of subs. Like I said, there are 20 of them, and I recognized all but a couple. I have actually seen the emails from the 10 who've rejected it outright. She forwarded them to me rather dutifully. But if I dump her, it seems reasonable to assume I can just write off the other 10 publishers who may still (optimism) get back to me. And more than that, even if I get another agent, isn't the well poisoned at this point? Nobody wants to see the same idea on their desk again, whether it's being repped by a new agent or not.

Thanks :)
 
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mccardey

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I had queried upwards of 30 agents with no interest. I felt a bit desperate.

To be honest, 30 agents is not many agents - and there's no way to know (yet) if it's your book or your query that's creating problems. So don't despair.

(Also,
I'm a single father of four and a full time attorney (I know, stop whining, we're all busy).
you're allowed to whine a little bit here. We all do it from time to time ;) )
 

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-Again, what is an agent at Simon and Schuster?

I suspect the OP mistyped and meant that he used to edit for S&S.

-a global edit is something writers do, typically not editors. Editors offer developmental, line editing, proofreading, etc. Not even writers use this term often.

I've heard the term used often enough for it not to be a problem, and I'm not sure it's something writers do rather than editors.

-This agent has worked with many authors, but she told you some publishing editors may never get back to her? Bullshit. Agents take pride in their relationships with publishing editors, and they often lunch together if they live in the same city. The editor would keep in touch with the agent and your agent would touch back with the editor to see if they have begun reading. This is how it works. I have seen it firsthand.

Not bullshit at all. It does happen, and it's a shame, but there you go.

I don't honestly think she's crooked -- more lazy than crooked really. In my opinion she doesn't actually read the books she takes on (that was my suggestion this week that led her to bring up these % based editors). Rather, she asks for a very detailed marketing workup by the author, something no other agent I looked into ever suggested. She then simply emails the materials you yourself prepared, and hopes something sticks. When it does, she lets the publisher edit the book, and reaps the rewards. When it doesn't, she offers editing work as a last ditch effort to skin a few ragged dollars off your thoroughly defeated hide.

This is not how good agents work.

They read all the books they try to sell and then they make a strong effort to pitch the books appropriately to the right agents. Just sending out stuff their clients put together is not pitching a book appropriately.

You would almost certainly be better off without this agent.

I'm not here asking for anyone's sympathy; this is a difficult industry. I guess what I would like to know (and some of you have kind of answered this for me already), is whether I should consider my "fiction novel," :) dead in the water, so to speak. My agent did in fact give me a list of subs. Like I said, there are 20 of them, and I recognized all but a couple. I have actually seen the emails from the 10 who've rejected it outright. She forwarded them to me rather dutifully. But if I dump her, it seems reasonable to assume I can just write off the other 10 publishers who may still (optimism) get back to me. And more than that, even if I get another agent, isn't the well poisoned at this point? Nobody wants to see the same idea on their desk again, whether it's being repped by a new agent or not.

Thanks :)

It all depends. If it's good you might find another agent willing to represent you. If you sever your relationship with her you will have to ask her to formally withdraw the book from the editors who haven't yet responded, just in case.

If she did send it out to twenty editors it might be difficult to find another agent. Just be aware of that. But there are a lot more editors out there; and from what you've told me you would be wise to end your relationship with this agent, as if she does manage to sell your book you will be tied to her by that contract, and if she's as incompetent as she sounds that could become very troublesome for you and your book. (If you could let me know privately who she is I'd be grateful, as it would give me some context for this discussion.)
 

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I don't honestly think she's crooked -- more lazy than crooked really. In my opinion she doesn't actually read the books she takes on (that was my suggestion this week that led her to bring up these % based editors). Rather, she asks for a very detailed marketing workup by the author, something no other agent I looked into ever suggested. She then simply emails the materials you yourself prepared, and hopes something sticks. When it does, she lets the publisher edit the book, and reaps the rewards. When it doesn't, she offers editing work as a last ditch effort to skin a few ragged dollars off your thoroughly defeated hide.


Thanks :)


bubbletuna - I strongly suggest you reconsider your relationship with this agent. Firstly, from what you tell us, it appears that she didn't even read your manuscript Why would a good, legit agent put her reputation on the line with a book she hasn't even read? What if it's no good? Secondly, with establishing a marketing plan yourself, you did her job for her. Meaning she's merely going to collect 15% after doing absolutely zero work. Thirdly, the "see what sticks" approach is a sign of an inexperienced agent, or alternatively, a plain bad agent.

There shouldn't be a "last ditch effort" for a book. Either your agent works with you from the get-go to spit-shine your work, or risk presenting an unpolished manuscript to an editor who will more than likely ignore her after several bad manuscripts.

You previously mentioned her saying that she'd "resubmit" your edited work to the same editors who passed on the manuscript. That's not how things work. If the editor requests a revise and resubmit, then yes. Otherwise, again, no legit agent would put her reputation on the line by submitting an unsolicited edit to an editor who already passed on the ms.

Ask for a submissions list. See which publishers she's submitted to. A good agent will share this list with you without hesitation (although not always the names of the editors for privacy reasons). If she doesn't, then that's a bad sign. If she does, see if the pubs are large or medium presses, or whether or not she's submitted to pubs that don't require an agent. This will tell you a lot.

Good luck to you. I hope you can resolve your predicament. Like everyone else mentioned, contact Writer Beware. They will keep you anonymous.
 

bubbletuna73

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bubbletuna - I strongly suggest you reconsider your relationship with this agent. Firstly, from what you tell us, it appears that she didn't even read your manuscript Why would a good, legit agent put her reputation on the line with a book she hasn't even read? What if it's no good? Secondly, with establishing a marketing plan yourself, you did her job for her. Meaning she's merely going to collect 15% after doing absolutely zero work. Thirdly, the "see what sticks" approach is a sign of an inexperienced agent, or alternatively, a plain bad agent.

There shouldn't be a "last ditch effort" for a book. Either your agent works with you from the get-go to spit-shine your work, or risk presenting an unpolished manuscript to an editor who will more than likely ignore her after several bad manuscripts.

You previously mentioned her saying that she'd "resubmit" your edited work to the same editors who passed on the manuscript. That's not how things work. If the editor requests a revise and resubmit, then yes. Otherwise, again, no legit agent would put her reputation on the line by submitting an unsolicited edit to an editor who already passed on the ms.

Ask for a submissions list. See which publishers she's submitted to. A good agent will share this list with you without hesitation (although not always the names of the editors for privacy reasons). If she doesn't, then that's a bad sign. If she does, see if the pubs are large or medium presses, or whether or not she's submitted to pubs that don't require an agent. This will tell you a lot.

Good luck to you. I hope you can resolve your predicament. Like everyone else mentioned, contact Writer Beware. They will keep you anonymous.


Thank-you for your response. I must note, although it is my opinion that she did not read my ms, she denies that. And she did give me a list of subs, right when she sent them. They are large and medium with a couple of small ones mixed in.
 

Chris P

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I don't honestly think she's crooked -- more lazy than crooked really. In my opinion she doesn't actually read the books she takes on (that was my suggestion this week that led her to bring up these % based editors). Rather, she asks for a very detailed marketing workup by the author, something no other agent I looked into ever suggested. She then simply emails the materials you yourself prepared, and hopes something sticks. When it does, she lets the publisher edit the book, and reaps the rewards. When it doesn't, she offers editing work as a last ditch effort to skin a few ragged dollars off your thoroughly defeated hide.

I would be very angry if this was all my agent did; forward on stuff I put together. I was with a small publisher who did essentially this, and with the predictable results. If I could do all this myself I'd self publish. I rely on the agent and publisher as business partners to do the parts of the job I can't do or wish not to.
 

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So this is the thing that boggles my mind, even though the agent, who the OP privately named to me, is not the first I've ever heard of/met that has done this.

This agent has represented high profile people. She's clearly gotten results. She must have done something right at some point for at least some people. Maybe they just do the hard work for well known personalities and have a different set of work ethics for the unknowns.

I have personally known agents who have had many years of success representing luminaries of the literary world. But when I watch them work, they do jack all for some relative upstart who's trying to get their second or third novel sold. In a couple of the manuscripts I saw, the work was shit. I knew it, I'm almost sure the agent knew it too, but she sent it to publishers anyways without doing any work on it and told the author their work was wonderful.

Which leads me to wonder if some agents just rest on their laurels and start phoning it in when they get up in years. Or delegate their energy to the authors that will give the biggest advances, while doing the bare minimum for work that if it sells, great, and if it doesn't, then they won't have spent much or any time on it.
 
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mccardey

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I have personally known agents who have had many years of success representing luminaries of the literary world. But when I watch them work, they do jack all for some relative upstart who's trying to get their second or third novel sold. In a couple of the manuscripts I saw, the work was shit. I knew it, I'm almost sure the agent knew it too, but she sent it to publishers anyways without doing any work on it and told the author their work was wonderful.

Which leads me to wonder if some agents just rest on their laurels and start phoning it in when they get up in years. Or delegate their energy to the authors that will give the biggest advances, while doing the bare minimum for work that if it sells, great, and if it doesn't, then they won't have spent much or any time on it.
How do you watch them work? Do you mean you're an intern?

A good agency doesn't take authors on just to build up the numbers, which is what you seem to be suggesting. There would be nothing but costs in that. Agencies are businesses and a good agency is a successful business, and I doubt that there's very much laurel-resting-upon that goes on.
 
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mystere

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How do you watch them work? Do you mean you're an intern?

A good agency doesn't take authors on just to build up the numbers, which is what you seem to be suggesting. There would be nothing but costs in that. Agencies are businesses and a good agency is a successful business, and I doubt that there's very much laurel-resting-upon that goes on.

A GOOD agency for sure...but that boat long sailed in this case, right? ;)
 

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I have personally known agents who have had many years of success representing luminaries of the literary world. But when I watch them work, they do jack all for some relative upstart who's trying to get their second or third novel sold.

In a couple of the manuscripts I saw, the work was shit. I knew it, I'm almost sure the agent knew it too, but she sent it to publishers anyways without doing any work on it and told the author their work was wonderful.

Which leads me to wonder if some agents just rest on their laurels and start phoning it in when they get up in years. Or delegate their energy to the authors that will give the biggest advances, while doing the bare minimum for work that if it sells, great, and if it doesn't, then they won't have spent much or any time on it.


Then you have personally known agents who are not typical of the profession, and who I wouldn't touch with a bargepole.

Yes, some agents just phone it in even when they're starting out. But good agents are better than that. Hell, MOST agents are better than that.
 

BenPanced

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And agents are like the rest of us in this business: when they're just starting out, they need to be fucking STELLAR in order to succeed later on.
 

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I haven't seen your writing so can't be sure, but I fear that editor overcharged you.

Agree. An editor who charges thousands of dollars for a single edit had better be mind-blowingly spectacular. I've done multiple rounds of edits on books that ended up hitting the NYT and USA Today lists and the total price tag barely cracked $1000. Rush fees included. I'm sure a Big Five editor knows plenty of stuff I don't, but for $5000, I'd expect that book to win a Pulitzer. :Shrug: