Stupid Word Count Question

M.C.Statz

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I have a question I'm slightly embarrassed I can't find the answer to. I've read numerous articles about word counts for different genres, e.g. http://www.writersdigest.com/editor...ovels-and-childrens-books-the-definitive-post

These tend to point me towards 80K words.

I've also read some articles on the proper way to count words. E.g. 1 inch margins, courier 12 point/10 pitch font, double spaced, count 250 words a page.

My WIP is about 63K from the word processor count and 76K by the above method. I assume 20% is a big difference when querying agents (really pretentious thought considering the current state of my work, but let me have my delusions).

My question is, when giving guidance towards a word count for a particular genre, do the authors of these articles assume their reader is using the "proper" word count estimation method, or are they referring to the word processor count?
 

Maryn

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Nowadays they're using the word processor count.

Good question, BTW. Thanks for asking aloud what others are no doubt wondering.
 

WeaselFire

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The word processor count is an exact number. The 250 words per typewritten page is a rough estimate. Since you have an accurate number, use it.

Jeff
 

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As has already been said, use your word processor's count.

And it's not a silly question, it's a good one.
 

M.C.Statz

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Nowadays they're using the word processor count.

Good question, BTW. Thanks for asking aloud what others are no doubt wondering.

As has already been said, use your word processor's count.

And it's not a silly question, it's a good one.

Thanks!
 
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Enoise

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The word processor count is what agents expect. When you give them an estimate that doesn't tally well, they may feel you have a dubious intent.
 

M.C.Statz

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The word processor count is what agents expect. When you give them an estimate that doesn't tally well, they may feel you have a dubious intent.

I will use that, thank you!

Follow up question: does the same hold true for publications that pay by the word?
 

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That's a queer answer. The accuracy of the number seems rather irrelevant, given the question is about expectations.

Everything I've read about word count estimation methods seems to point that it's really a proxy for space needed, and that the estimation method is a more accurate for that.

Not questioning your conclusion, especially since others have indicated the same, but your reasoning seems specious.

A better response would be "thank you".

I will use that, thank you!

Follow up question: does the same hold true for publications that pay by the word?

Depends on their policies. Ask them.
 

blacbird

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Good agents are highly experienced about this (and many other such things). They will understand what you mean by "~82,000 words" and can run their own word-count on you submission if they want to. Now, worry more about the quality of the words you sent than about the quantity of them.

caw
 

JetFueledCar

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That's a queer answer. The accuracy of the number seems rather irrelevant, given the question is about expectations.

Everything I've read about word count estimation methods seems to point that it's really a proxy for space needed, and that the estimation method is a more accurate for that.

Not questioning your conclusion, especially since others have indicated the same, but your reasoning seems specious.

- - - Updated - - -





Thanks!

That opens an interesting point, because my impression of word count is that it's not at all about space needed, but rather reader expectations. But I haven't done much formal research on the subject, just observed the change in book length as the readership decides how long they'll stay in an imaginary world.

(I read YA. The average book has gotten progressively longer since Twilight.)
 

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That opens an interesting point, because my impression of word count is that it's not at all about space needed, but rather reader expectations. But I haven't done much formal research on the subject, just observed the change in book length as the readership decides how long they'll stay in an imaginary world.

Readers expect books to be particular lengths because that's what they're used to. Books are particular lengths because publishers have discovered that those lengths work well as books and are economical to work with and publish.

(I read YA. The average book has gotten progressively longer since Twilight.)

Has it? I wasn't aware. Do you have any citations for that? (Not that I'm doubting you, I am properly interested and I like to see good statistics.)
 

JetFueledCar

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Readers expect books to be particular lengths because that's what they're used to. Books are particular lengths because publishers have discovered that those lengths work well as books and are economical to work with and publish.



Has it? I wasn't aware. Do you have any citations for that? (Not that I'm doubting you, I am properly interested and I like to see good statistics.)

It's something I noticed as I went from starting to read YA to now--the same writers I read when I was 13 now publish books twice the length (those who are still writing). One of them said in her acknowledgements that because of Harry Potter, she was allowed to write a series in two longer books instead of four shorter ones. Looking at word count reports over the years, however, suggests I had a skewed sample. Tamora Pierce's (the author who made the comment) first published book was just under 50k; her longest, much more recent, is almost 200k, which is another exception rather than the rule. My favorite of her books was 133k. Again, an exception according to all the word count guidelines I can find, and one that may have been backed up by her reader base having grown.

Also, apparently the first Harry Potter was 76k words. It certainly felt shorter.
 

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Word processor count, and no, it's not a dumb question!
 

Proserpina

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Does anyone know if publishers have always had stringent word count requirements? Was there a time in recent memory that writers didn't need to tally?
 

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Not in recent memory no. But I wouldn't look at it as "stringent". Publishers offer guidelines based on previous experience. Some people can get away with working outside of the guidelines. Heck I did. My first book is what is called Middle Grade, for ages 8 - 12, and the guidelines when I was submitting said up to 40K max. I submitted a work twice that length. Got an agent. Got published.

The thing is, most of us aren't the exception. My other books for other markets most certainly were not. Often new writers over write like crazy, and even in my own work I was asked to cut 15K out of it before it was accepted. Generally when a book is too long by a first time writer chances are there are places to trim.

But that doesn't mean there aren't exceptions. And as long as you understand as an author you are taking a risk and have to prove yourself even more by being outside of the norm, there is nothing holding anyone back from giving it a go. It's just a good thing to understand that one IS outside the norm in the first place. And to accept that the challenge will indeed be challenging.
 

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There have been word-count requirements for as long as I can remember, but there are no "stringent" requirements. Just that to get past those requirements your book has to be extraordinary in its genre (for example, Grief is a Thing With Feathers).