I don't want to self-publish, but I don't want to work with one of the really big publishers either

Iconian said:

Thank you all for your replies. However, I must respectfully disagree with much that has been said here.

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You're unable or unwilling to address the points we raised, yet you seem to think we should fall in with your ideas. When we don't, we're negative, hostile, resisting, etc.

But I believe that the industry is changing...

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The industry is always changing. This is not a great revelation to anyone here.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Le sigh. I've been following publishing for 30 years. It's always changing. I did follow the OP's links, and found them wanting for specific reasons that other people have already noted.

Because publishing shifts, because agents leave the business or change their wish lists, an author's list of agents and publishers *has* to be an evolving and personal document.

That's research, and it's different for most authors. I'm sorry that the OP felt singled-out and slighted, when we were trying to point this out. AW is not a perfect source, just a useful stop along the way.

Iconian said:

Thank you all for your replies. However, I must respectfully disagree with much that has been said here. Prior to starting any threads here I had already processed many of the ideas and opinions that you have all presented. I fear you have not processed what I presented, particularly the web links, and if you have, you have viewed the information to be of lesser value. But I believe that the industry is changing, and things no longer work as they once did, so that in fact it is your older information which is of lesser value. I believe that it's time for authors to expect more of their publishers.

Nonetheless, I can clearly see, between the forcible suppression of my other thread and the overall negativity that has been on display here, that it is clearly no longer worth my time to continue pursuing this matter, on Absolute Write, at this time. Again, thank you all for your opinions.

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Oh, please. What you'd suggested in your other thread wasn't going to work and it was explained why. Everybody is expected to do a fair amount of research and with the way the industry is changing, no amount of lists or databases is ever going to have all of the information you demanded. It is out there and you can actually make things work in your favor as long as you have a salable product and are willing to put in the effort and time necessary (trust me: I'm currently in my own throes of railing against the system but rather than continuing to piss in the wind and shake my fist at imaginary gods I'm certain are doing these things just to bug me, I'm changing my strategy so that I can make things work for me and save myself).

Believe it or not, we want everybody here to succeed. Whether or not it happens is up to you. So until then, use the cedar chips; they smell nicer.

But I believe that the industry is changing, and things no longer work as they once did, so that in fact it is your older information which is of lesser value. I believe that it's time for authors to expect more of their publishers.

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You are certainly entitled to believe anything you read but you would benefit to also keep an open mind when Published Authors here tell you things are not really changing all that much and that many times what has worked well in the past for the industry is still working today. This 40-50% royalty you are looking for will be net, will be ebook only, will likely not offer full editing nor marketing because this publisher is not making enough to afford all that a Trade publisher can... and at the end of the day the money made will work out to far less then 10% from a Trade publisher because of volume of sales.

Iconian said:

Thank you all for your replies. However, I must respectfully disagree with much that has been said here. Prior to starting any threads here I had already processed many of the ideas and opinions that you have all presented. I fear you have not processed what I presented, particularly the web links, and if you have, you have viewed the information to be of lesser value. But I believe that the industry is changing, and things no longer work as they once did, so that in fact it is your older information which is of lesser value. I believe that it's time for authors to expect more of their publishers.

Nonetheless, I can clearly see, between the forcible suppression of my other thread and the overall negativity that has been on display here, that it is clearly no longer worth my time to continue pursuing this matter, on Absolute Write, at this time. Again, thank you all for your opinions.

Respectfully,
Iconian

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Please do an update once you've found a publisher (or decided to self-pub, as it may be). I'm interested to see how you feel about the publishing industry after you've gone through the process of signing with an agent, a publisher, and so on.

Uh. Huh.

What everyone else said. I neglected to write anything because I knew this was going to happen. You were going to pontificate in the form of a question and then when people didn't answer how you liked blame others for not listening to you because you of course know better than everyone else. Predictable and sadly amusing. It's extra amusing to accuse people of not following links because you might not realise this but, uh, Konrath? Used to be a member here (still is I assume, but hasn't posted in ages). Not only do we know his experience well, many of us have had rather long back and forth conversations with him.

Trust us. We know. WE KNOW. We've read these links, we've heard what you've had to say not just from you but so many others in the past. And we also knew how you were going to respond to people disagreeing with the conclusions you've drawn. And we knew you were going to essentially insult us as not smart enough to understand you or to understand how the business changes over time. But . . . ultimately the only person this really affects is you. We want you to have the most success and approach publishing with your eyes open, not just from one biased perspective (btw, a lot of us are what is called "hybrid authors" - authors who publish trade and also self publish - we are not exactly anti-self publishing AT ALL here. We just want everyone to have all the facts from all sides, not just one perspective with an agenda). But ultimately, you do you. And we'll do us.

As for your list desire, you seem very stuck on this list. Like somehow a list solves all your problems. People have explained why a list is not so helpful, and how each genre would have their own list and how big such a list would become, but here's something else: no one here wants to put in that work. I mean you don't want to do it, so why exactly do you expect us to do it for you? The rest of us have figured out how to get published without asking others to make a list. Do the work yourself. Like we all did. Why do you expect others to do it all for you??

Iconian said:

Thank you all for your replies. However, I must respectfully disagree with much that has been said here. Prior to starting any threads here I had already processed many of the ideas and opinions that you have all presented. I fear you have not processed what I presented, particularly the web links, and if you have, you have viewed the information to be of lesser value. But I believe that the industry is changing, and things no longer work as they once did, so that in fact it is your older information which is of lesser value. I believe that it's time for authors to expect more of their publishers.

Nonetheless, I can clearly see, between the forcible suppression of my other thread and the overall negativity that has been on display here, that it is clearly no longer worth my time to continue pursuing this matter, on Absolute Write, at this time. Again, thank you all for your opinions.

Respectfully,
Iconian

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If there's one thing that really irks me in discussions, it's 'you don't understand (or, in this case, 'I fear you have not processed what I presented...')/you're not listening.' We understand you fine. We perused and even, yes , processed your links. Yet we still don't agree with you. That is a thing. I swear.

If you choose to believe what you found on some blogs and links over a number of people with decades of ongoing and current experience in the very industry you're talking about, who have explained to you, quite specifically, the ways in which the ideas you'd previously collected were false or misleading, that's totally up to you. You're free to pursue whatever path you choose. See, though, how I am not suggesting that you lack an understanding of what we're saying and that if you just understood us, or just listened, you'd agree? I'm not suggesting that because it's a condescending and obnoxious thing to do. You have information and you can choose what to believe and what to do going forward.

As the OP has announced he won't be back I'm going to lock this thread. I hope that doesn't count as oppression.