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Am I crazy, over critical, or normal in my thinking on this?

Punk28

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Okay, I need to know if I'm just going crazy or am being normal. For the last few weeks, I've tried to get myself in the gear of reading Stephen King's book, It, and have fallen far short of it until 2 days ago. Even though I'm trying to not do it, I'm finding myself "editing" it while reading it, which I know I shouldn't be doing because it's disrespectful and the book really is a good one. My main areas in editing portions of it regard the heaps of Had's, Had Been's, and Had Gone's, but there are other areas where I find myself editing too. To me, the book seems to incorporate tons of past tense words that don't need to be present (he already mentions that a certain section takes place in the past, but continues to use a bucket-load of past tense words which, to me, are confusing).
 

mccardey

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Okay, I need to know if I'm just going crazy or am being normal. For the last few weeks, I've tried to get myself in the gear of reading Stephen King's book, It, and have fallen far short of it until 2 days ago. Even though I'm trying to not do it, I'm finding myself "editing" it while reading it, which I know I shouldn't be doing because it's disrespectful and the book really is a good one. My main areas in editing portions of it regard the heaps of Had's, Had Been's, and Had Gone's, but there are other areas where I find myself editing too. To me, the book seems to incorporate tons of past tense words that don't need to be present (he already mentions that a certain section takes place in the past, but continues to use a bucket-load of past tense words which, to me, are confusing).

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you're probably wrong.
 

L.C. Blackwell

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I question why you want to read the book in the first place. Not every author's style suits every reader. Most likely, your inability to get lost in the story (while getting hung up on stylistic issues) means that this is not your cup of tea, and you can very profitably find something else to read.
 

JoB42

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Read what's on the page, let the immersion take over, let your brain "nap" while you read so you're not sidetracked.

Or use the reading as an opportunity to practice and consider your craft.

Either way.
 

Punk28

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I question why you want to read the book in the first place. Not every author's style suits every reader. Most likely, your inability to get lost in the story (while getting hung up on stylistic issues) means that this is not your cup of tea, and you can very profitably find something else to read.

I've read this book 4 times without any issues. Just odd that, on the fifth, I'm having trouble and it's been years since I've picked it up to read. My main reason in wanting to pick the book up, then read through it, is because the movie's coming out next month and I'd like to get buried in its source before seeing it then deciding if it's worthy or not to it.
 

be frank

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I've read this book 4 times without any issues. Just odd that, on the fifth, I'm having trouble and it's been years since I've picked it up to read.

Educated guess: in the years since you last read it (heh!), have you started to take your own writing more seriously?

This has happened to me since I joined AW, actually. There are books I used to breeze through and love, but now I just want to take out my red pen of doom and edit the hell out of them on reread. With some, I can switch off that part of my brain and still enjoy the read. With others, I can't see how me-of-the-past ever liked it.

Maybe it's your editor-brain. Maybe it's just that you've gotten older and your tastes have changed. Either way, you're not alone in having this happen. :)


eta: I'm not talking about the specific "had" thing. I mean generally finding issues with a book where you never had previously.
 
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cornflake

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Okay, I need to know if I'm just going crazy or am being normal. For the last few weeks, I've tried to get myself in the gear of reading Stephen King's book, It, and have fallen far short of it until 2 days ago. Even though I'm trying to not do it, I'm finding myself "editing" it while reading it, which I know I shouldn't be doing because it's disrespectful and the book really is a good one. My main areas in editing portions of it regard the heaps of Had's, Had Been's, and Had Gone's, but there are other areas where I find myself editing too. To me, the book seems to incorporate tons of past tense words that don't need to be present (he already mentions that a certain section takes place in the past, but continues to use a bucket-load of past tense words which, to me, are confusing).

I'm guessing you might be off there -- also those don't sound like past, they sound like pp, likely.
 

JetFueledCar

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Educated guess: in the years since you last read it (heh!), have you started to take your own writing more seriously?

This has happened to me since I joined AW, actually. There are books I used to breeze through and love, but now I just want to take out my red pen of doom and edit the hell out of them on reread. With some, I can switch off that part of my brain and still enjoy the read. With others, I can't see how me-of-the-past ever liked it.

Maybe it's your editor-brain. Maybe it's just that you've gotten older and your tastes have changed. Either way, you're not alone in having this happen. :)


eta: I'm not talking about the specific "had" thing. I mean generally finding issues with a book where you never had previously.

This is my instinct. I can't remember what series it happened with exactly, but as recently as a few years ago I'd devour it and recommend it to anyone who would listen. I picked it up this year and... I don't think I actually got through it.
 

Fruitbat

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I definitely edit/critique books in my mind as I read far more than I used to.
 

Punk28

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Educated guess: in the years since you last read it (heh!), have you started to take your own writing more seriously?

This has happened to me since I joined AW, actually. There are books I used to breeze through and love, but now I just want to take out my red pen of doom and edit the hell out of them on reread. With some, I can switch off that part of my brain and still enjoy the read. With others, I can't see how me-of-the-past ever liked it.

Maybe it's your editor-brain. Maybe it's just that you've gotten older and your tastes have changed. Either way, you're not alone in having this happen. :)

eta: I'm not talking about the specific "had" thing. I mean generally finding issues with a book where you never had previously.

Most definitely! Before joining this group, I just got through reading It for the fourth time and started re-figuring my writing style, which, back then, was crap compared to what it is now. This group has helped me a lot since I joined it, and I do owe it, and its people, a dose of gratitude for that. I guess I just need to figure out how to put the Editor in me to the side to enjoy reading again, and plug it back in when I go in to read through then change up certain bits of what I'm writing.
 

mccardey

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Most definitely! Before joining this group, I just got through reading It for the fourth time and started re-figuring my writing style, which, back then, was crap compared to what it is now. This group has helped me a lot since I joined it, and I do owe it, and its people, a dose of gratitude for that. I guess I just need to figure out how to put the Editor in me to the side to enjoy reading again, and plug it back in when I go in to read through then change up certain bits of what I'm writing.
Are you sure you're right though, about S King getting it wrong? Are you sure that he's not dealing, as Cornflake says, in past perfect?
 

JetFueledCar

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Are you sure you're right though, about S King getting it wrong? Are you sure that he's not dealing, as Cornflake says, in past perfect?

Could be both. I haven't read the book in question, but long stretches of past perfect, while technically correct, can read very oddly. It may not be something that needs correcting, but could still be something the OP would have found a way to write around. I know personally, as a reader and a writer, I don't enjoy reading pages of "had done" and "had gone." I prefer, if it's going to come to that, putting a scene break and writing the whole thing as a flashback.
 

mccardey

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Could be both. I haven't read the book in question, but long stretches of past perfect, while technically correct, can read very oddly. It may not be something that needs correcting, but could still be something the OP would have found a way to write around. I know personally, as a reader and a writer, I don't enjoy reading pages of "had done" and "had gone." I prefer, if it's going to come to that, putting a scene break and writing the whole thing as a flashback.

We need a grammar nerd here. Preferably one who has read It. (I haven't - I've only Look-Insided)
 

blacbird

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Stephen King is a greatly talented story teller, and a very good writer, but he's also always been interested in quantity more than quality. He gets away with a considerable degree of craft sloppiness because he's so brilliant at story. I have the impression that he doesn't self-edit much, and once he became STEPHEN KING in metallic ink embossed letters larger than those of the book's title, no other editor does much with his work, either. Every one of his really big books I've attempted to read suffers, in my reader's eye, from excessive wordage. But that's just me, and there are millions of King fans out there who don't agree, or don't care. The novel of his that I regard highest (and there are plenty of disagreers here, too) is the relatively short first novel of the Dark Tower series, The Gunslinger. I've read somewhere that it, in contrast to most of his other novels, took him years to write and get to where he liked it. If true, that shows.

caw
 

JCornelius

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I have moments when books by authors I like suddenly start reading like crap, and I have to find someone else who doesn't read like crap, until the turbo-critical period passes.

I also have moments in which every book I read is written "wrongly". This means I should take a break from both reading and writing, because my writerly compass is temporarily out of whack.

Sometimes I manage to shift the inner editor into "correctly done" mode--paying attention to the stuff that obviously works in the book I'm reading.

Of course, there are whole genres and categories, where no matter how talented the writer, I hate it by default. I tend to not venture there.

*AFTERTHOUGHT* Stephen King writes sloppy schlock when judged by Raymond Carver standards, and Carver writes pretentious mind-numbing crap when judged by Stephen King standards. H.P. Lovecraft writes degenerate mystic pulp by Asimov standards, and Asimov writes boring moralistic sci-fi lectures by Lovecraft standards. Hemingway is a second-rate primitive Fitzgerald, and Fitzgerald is a pompous and overwritten Hemingway.

All of these writers are brilliant in their own way, and one of the skills writers should develop as readers, IMO, is the ability:
a) to first judge any book they read by its own standards, and not by comparing pencils to oranges;
b) to secondly judge the book by the overall standard of its author;
c) to thirdly judge it by the standards of its subgenre and genre;
and only then, to maybe try to qualify it in some grander scheme of things.

There are genres which I ignore completely, and genres in which only a small minority of writers does something for me, but every time I try a new book, I do my best to judge it by its own standard. For what it's worth, by King's own authorly standard, IT is a solid 10 out of 10, unlike, for example, Firestarter, which is a 7.5 :D
 
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Harlequin

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I've read some of King's short stories but he reads awkward and clunky to me. In his longer stuff it's more than I can sit through without getting exasperated. I prefer him as a source of visual material (shows and films) because I like his concepts but I can't stand his writing.

there are a lot of books I would struggle to reread now. I remember liking Sword of Shannara as a kid but I think my eyeballs might explode if I reread it as an adult.

I think the measure of a good book is that it withstands repeated scrutiny. Rereading something like Jane Eyre gives me a more appreciation and enjoyment, not less. It's still fantastic. The writing is still great. Same for something like Tolkien (although I appreciate that's subjective).
 

Curlz

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he already mentions that a certain section takes place in the past, but continues to use a bucket-load of past tense words which, to me, are confusing.
If you find any wording confusing, we could discuss an example and find an explanation. The amount of "past tense words" in a book is not something that should be measured by weight. Tense has a purpose. It's not there to be cute.
:e2bouncey
 

Ari Meermans

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Fiction writing is not business or academic writing. You can get so caught up in the mechanics of proper grammar that you write your story right out of existence. You can damage the narrative voice and you most likely will lose the nuance. You are, after all, trying to connect with your reader on an emotional level. You can lose that connection by being a stickler for grammar rules.

But IT. Yeah, IT is one of my favorite King stories. Past perfect tense in those passages works because it shows the power of memory and the struggle Bill has had his whole life with the trauma of his little brother's death—the grief and guilt that has marked him and is even destroying his marriage today: If Bill had not made that toy boat for Georgie, Georgie would be alive today. If Bill had been with Georgie when he ran out to sail it after the storm, Georgie would be alive today. That was a load for a little boy to carry and it made Bill the damaged man he is today. Those passages convey that. Past perfect tense also conveys that the adult Bill is trying to make sense of the horror of that time. It couldn't have happened just that way. No adult had seen Pennywise; it must have been the imagination of a group of misfit kids. Had to be. But it wasn't and he knew it.
 
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Devil Ledbetter

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I love what JCornelius said about writer-specific standards.

Stephen King is a greatly talented story teller, and a very good writer, but he's also always been interested in quantity more than quality. He gets away with a considerable degree of craft sloppiness because he's so brilliant at story. I have the impression that he doesn't self-edit much, and once he became STEPHEN KING in metallic ink embossed letters larger than those of the book's title, no other editor does much with his work, either. Every one of his really big books I've attempted to read suffers, in my reader's eye, from excessive wordage. But that's just me, and there are millions of King fans out there who don't agree, or don't care.
This has been precisely my opinion of King ever since I read The Tommyknockers a few decades ago. IT did nothing to dispel it, though I was more annoyed by the plot hole so big you could drive a Mack truck through it. I quit reading King, although I've heard he's improved since getting sober. He admits The Tommyknockers was a hot mess because he was drunk when he wrote it.

I went through a long spell of struggling to enjoy fiction without "editing" it. I still edit (it's automatic) but I'm more used to it now so can enjoy fiction again.
 

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It definitely takes me more time to get lost in the story. Sometimes I've found myself pulling a When Harry Met Sally and reading the last chapter after reading the first 3 chapters. Horrible, I know.

That's how I distinguish the great books from the good and average (based on my tastes/preferences of course) - the great ones carry me away despite my increasing red pen instincts.
 

JCornelius

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/.../ IT did nothing to dispel it, though I was more annoyed by the plot hole so big you could drive a Mack truck through it. /.../
While this "plot hole" thing may be somewhat petty when applied to tales about alien clowns in sewers, my thing with Rothfuss is infinitely more petty:D I threw the book across the room when I encountered the color "burgundy" and having thrown the damn thing I thereupon raced up and down the room for minutes, red in the face, veins popping out on my forehead, lecturing in a loud voice an imaginary Rothfuss, that by God, pal, you better have a region in your secondary world also called "Burgundy" if you're going to use that name, unless you are of the abysmal type who will also have "cognac" and "champagne" in their middle earths, without corresponding identically named provinces of origin, might as well have your bleeding wizard bards eat their damn "Kentucky boiled gruel", aaaargh, aaaaargh, *fists thumping wall*
 
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Odile_Blud

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Nah. I don't think you're crazy. Since I started writing and critiquing others work, pretty much every form of media I consume whether it be books, movies, TV or anything, I find myself editing it. I can't turn it off. That's just how it is, at least for me anyway.
 

JoB42

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While this "plot hole" thing may be somewhat petty when applied to tales about alien clowns in sewers, my thing with Rothfuss is infinitely more petty:D I threw the book across the room when I encountered the color "burgundy" and having thrown the damn thing I thereupon raced up and down the room for minutes, red in the face, veins popping out on my forehead, lecturing in a loud voice an imaginary Rothfuss, that by God, pal, you better have a region in your secondary world also called "Burgundy" if you're going to use that name, unless you are of the abysmal type who will also have "cognac" and "champagne" in their middle earths, without corresponding identically named provinces of origin, might as well have your bleeding wizard bards eat their damn "Kentucky boiled gruel", aaaargh, aaaaargh, *fists thumping wall*

The burgundy thing doesn't really bother me. I suppose I'd rather read burgundy than smeerp.
 

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Found an inconsistency in the book that I have. When Ben goes to the library, then sees the poster on the curfew, it goes on to describe the murders that have taken place (I get the impression that he knows about them when I read it). When Ben and Eddie talk later on, though, Ben acts like he doesn't know about George's death, which is strange because of what I get when reading the section on the child murders being described. There was a sentence in the section where Eddie Corcoran is featured that makes no sense either (it goes on to say one thing, then draws away from that thing to end on a totally different one that's irrelevent to how it began).


I'm on page 304, so I am reading it, but I'm still finding things that I'm editing.
 

JCornelius

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/.../
I'm on page 304, so I am reading it, but I'm still finding things that I'm editing.

Robinson Crusoe gets from dressed to undressed during his initial swim to the island:) Dr.Watson's bullet wound from Afghanistan shifts between shoulder and leg. It happens. If however, you can apply that keen sight to your own manuscript--super.