Intimidating

I'm in the same situation so I feel ya! Well, except I'm only at 5,000 words if it makes you feel any better.

A couple of random thoughts: First, longer isn't always better or more skilled. After all, a typical newbie issue is writing an overly long novel that's just bloated. Second, in a way, a longer novel might actually be easier in that if there are more plotlines, each one could be less involved, which takes some of the pressure off that we have with a smaller cast of characters. Third, writing a longer novel (that's tight and complex rather than just wordy) might likely come easier after doing a few short ones first.

Anyway, for right now, I'm just concentrating on 50,000 words. From there, if the market seems to demand it, I might try to fatten it up a little. But 100,000 words isn't even on my radar at this point.


Good luck with it!

Don't look at the word count goals. Don't look ahead at all. Just work on writing the next sentence/paragraph/scene. The story will find its natural length.

Anne Lamott, in her book on the writing life, Bird by Bird, talks about times when she's intimidated by the sheer scope of trying to write a novel. If I remember correctly, she said she keeps a tiny picture frame on her desk, one inch by one inch, and uses it to remind herself to focus on writing only that which will fit inside that frame. IOW, the part of the story that's right in front of her.

BethS said:

Don't look at the word count goals. Don't look ahead at all. Just work on writing the next sentence/paragraph/scene. The story will find its natural length.

Anne Lamott, in her book on the writing life, Bird by Bird, talks about times when she's intimidated by the sheer scope of trying to write a novel. If I remember correctly, she said she keeps a tiny picture frame on her desk, one inch by one inch, and uses it to remind herself to focus on writing only that which will fit inside that frame. IOW, the part of the story that's right in front of her.

Click to expand...

I LOVE that! I always struggle with word count too - I feel like so many novels are padded with things that I skim through to get to the good parts - how many descriptions of feasts or sunsets or clothes are really needed? I think under 50k is considered a novella - and lots of YA is trending longer and longer - I think Hunger Games is about 95k. Harry Potter books get even longer.

Historically though, even literary novels used to be shorter. Over 50k was fine - and I still see some more slender volumes out there. I think people are starting to realize a big fat book isn't necessarily a good thing. Sometimes you want a faster, leaner read.

I hear you! Boy, do I hear you.

My WIP, which I estimate will be between 80 and 90K words (80 to 90 M words?) is very intimidating for a number of reasons:

1. It involves Hindu symbolism and mythology, a subject I have to research thoroughly;
2. It involves quantum cosmology, another subject I have to research thoroughly;
3. It involves themes of death and resurrection, subjects which terrify me; and,
4. The MC is a person who is VERY different from me.

Last year, I decided I was going to work on this novel for NaNoWriMo, though, and the impetus to write at least 1,667 words per day really helped. I outlined thoroughly prior to beginning, and just kept plowing through until I reached the end. I'm revising now; there are parts that are good, parts that need expanding, parts that are flat-out awful, and so on. I'm still intimidated, but far less than I was.

celticroots said:

I am working on a novel length WIP and am 15,000 words in. I write YA so my goal is 50,000 words or more. Is that still considered a publishible novel? To beef it up I am slowing down my scenes with description, dialogue, etc. I find the idea of writing a novel up to 100,000 words intimidating. How can I not get freaked out by higher word counts?

Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean by To beef it up I am slowing down my scenes with description, dialogue, etc. .

You make it sound like padding. Pacing is not static. Or is this a variation of the 'rushing' thread?

Write the story as it needs to be told, with all relevant and necessary description and dialogue etc..

Worrying about a word count achieves nothing.

Focus on the scene you are writing.

I get the feeling that you're overthinking this. Don't worry about the ultimate word count--don't even think about it. Just focus on telling your story as well as you can, one sentence at a time.

My first novel ended up at about 126k and I still felt like I needed more room. My first draft came up at 140k and I had to edit a LOT to bring it down to what would be more "acceptable." I regret that, I was reading that new authors would have a hard time getting published if their first YA novel wasnt in the 75k-100k range. Being 40k over really messed with me, so I chopped a lot and as a result I get a lot of feedback like " Dude, you had so much world building and then your last two chapters there

This is on the other side of the spectrum than you, being that I was worried about writing too much, and youre worried about writting too little. My best advice is to write whats best for you, do not settle or compromise. Write what you feel is the best you can produce.

If you start overextending dialogue and scenery and all of that than you are taking away from your true style. Readers will notice that.

Like how I felt I needed to condense what should have been 4-5 chapters into a flurry of events in my last 2. Readers notice.

I published to Amazon, so realistically I should have kept it as I wanted.

I feel like once you just free flow and write till you feel th scene is done, the 100k mark wont be daunting.


Write what feels most comfrotable, your readers will aprichiate the quality much more.

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. (Creighton Abrams)

How do you write? One word at a time. (Stephen King)

Just keep swimming! (Dory)

I think it's easy to psych yourself out, to look at what you have (15,000 words) and what you don't have (80,000+) and see any one (or all of) of a thousand daunting obstacles rise up in between to thwart you. There are a lot of common threads of writerly wisdom that get thrown around, the most applicable of which here is that the first draft is you trying to tell yourself the story you want to write. (Alternatively, the first draft of anything is supposed to be garbage. Alternatively, you can't fix something that doesn't exist. And so on.)

So what if the first pass only clocks in at 40k? Are you going to try and publish that? Or are you going to read it (and shove your mental editors in the basement when they insist you take it in the back yard and set it on fire) and see the big holes you left? The small gaps? The character arc that could be tightened up, or the plot threads you left dangling? The scenes where you didn't actually describe anything at all? The part where, three quarters of the way through, you realize the characters needed A Magic Widget and gave it to them, but in hindsight making them work for the Widget is more interesting than just handing it over gift-wrapped?

Don't look at what everybody else is doing right now. And by that please don't think I mean stop reading, and reading widely. And don't think that what you see come out at the end of the production process is what the writer put in at the start, either; not when they finished their first draft, or the draft they sent out to their beta readers, or the version they sent to their agents, or even the version their agents sent on to editors.

Get that first draft caught on paper. Then add and take away where appropriate. Add and take away from that.

Novels are not so much written as they are built. It's like building a house. You do one thing, then the next, then the one after that, until the house is done.

Concentrate on doing one thing, and don't get blocked up by the sheer size of the project. You won't get anywhere if you don't do that first thing.

caw

celticroots said:

Yes I suppose it could be a variant on my other thread. I am trying to add more detail to necessary scenes. Pacing isn't static? What does that mean?

Click to expand...

It means you're going to have to do some revision. But as others have wisely said, that's all in the future. Right now all you have to do is tell the story in the way that feels most natural to you. That gives you the foundation from which to work. Like blacbird said, novels are built. They do have to be functional wholes, but they are also collections of component parts--your chapters need to have an arc, lead to each other, connect and resolve issues. So too each scene. Sometimes it's easier to just focus on what a given scene or chapter needs, then figure out how it leads to what's next.

Pacing is a part of how narrative is structured. If you're simply padding scenes to increase word count, it will, well, look like padding. That's the danger of word count trackers and obsessing over word counts. What you want is a dramatically functional story, one that's going to grip the reader whether it's barely 50K or 150K. And truth is, if you can manage that, the barriers around word-counts get much smaller anyway.

Pacing-wise, each scene should have its purpose. (So too each chapter, and the novel as a whole, once you have the thing drafted and can step back to see it fully.) Anything that doesn't fit that purpose is superfluous to the scene. But there are degrees--pace can be breakneck or languid. If my scene is about a very important tree, then I might choose to describe the hillside on which it's growing, or the grass at its foot, or the wilted leaves on one side--all of these provide more detail about the tree, the extra weight conveys importance, and though this will add words, those words are functioning to make this tree a part of the larger story. Contrast the tree on fire, splitting and cracking and falling down. That scene, if it's more active, needs to be told quicker. More direct and powerful verbs, probably tighter sentences, and only enough detail to tell me that this is happening before the character runs to grab her camera and maybe a hose.

If you're worried about pacing, post an excerpt in SYW. Pacing is incredibly situational and context-dependent. There's no right way to do it. You have to gauge what the scene needs, what the story needs, and what the reader might need, too. None of this has any direct relevance to word count. It is, in fact, relatively easy to cut words later. Write the story the way you want to tell it. Until you write The End it's still a story, not a book, so don't try to make it one before you have the former.

celticroots said:

...I am trying to add more detail to necessary scenes...

Click to expand...

I do this too. I just tend to write sparsely. So later, I go back later and round the scenes out. If that's what you mean, I think it's fine.

blacbird said:

Novels are not so much written as they are built. It's like building a house. You do one thing, then the next, then the one after that, until the house is done.

Concentrate on doing one thing, and don't get blocked up by the sheer size of the project. You won't get anywhere if you don't do that first thing.

caw

Click to expand...

Oh, so much this. You don't build a house to a brick-count.

ETA: You don't, do you? I just realised I have no idea how you build a house. But my point stands, although it might be standing on shakey ground.

Adding to the voice that says to take your mind off the end-goal and the big picture and to focus on what you can do today.

I have found this advice very helpful (but IME, easier said than done).

Echoing the "just write the best manuscript possible and don't worry about anything else" responses. Word count. Publishability. None of it. Just write. At the finish line you might end up with the perfect novel at the perfect length. Or maybe a great novella. Or a long short story. But I'd also like to add that you shouldn't be afraid to fail either. I know nothing about your novel, it might be brilliant and change the world. But if it's just okay or you've only barely squeaked over the 25K word mark, that's fine. Learn from it. The next one will be better. And the one after that will be even better.

mccardey said:

Oh, so much this. You don't build a house to a brick-count.

ETA: You don't, do you? I just realised I have no idea how you build a house. But my point stands, although it might be standing on shakey ground.

Click to expand...

Here in southern Alaska, we don't build with bricks, because we literally live on shakey ground. You really don't want to be in a brick building when the bureaucrats in charge of the Pacific Plate decide it's time to shove it northward a couple of meters. Wooden structures are a lot better.

But the writing point is not to get hung up on the BIG PICTURE, but to deal with the smaller stuff. Too many writers get enwrapped in the planning and never get beyond it.

caw

celticroots said:

I am working on a novel length WIP and am 15,000 words in. I write YA so my goal is 50,000 words or more. Is that still considered a publishible novel? To beef it up I am slowing down my scenes with description, dialogue, etc. I find the idea of writing a novel up to 100,000 words intimidating. How can I not get freaked out by higher word counts?

Click to expand...

2,000 words a day, that's less than 51 days. Double that daily amount and you have something to start editing in less than a non-leap year February month.

The number of words aren't the problem. It's figuring out what order they go in.

So my small advice would be to focus on writing the best story you can and not looking at the word counter until you're done. You might be surprised.

The best advice I've read on novel writing came from Matthew Kneale. "Make sure enough happens in your story, that there is a sense of change."

If you're padding the scenery to reach a word count goal, perhaps not enough is happening in the story itself.

deleted - misunderstood previous post