I know cheating is a huge no-no in romance, but

crossword · Aug 15, 2017

I had this idea where the hero and heroine are both aspiring actors. they’ve been in love since they attended acting school together or else they fell in love when both trying desperately to make it, trying out for audition after audition.

So when the story opens they are already in love and very close. They both have little money and take on any temp jobs like waitressing to pay the rent.

Then either the hero or the heroine is offered a big part if they sleep with the producer or director.

Because he or she is desperate, he or she agrees. Then their SO finds out, breaks up with them.

The one who cheated feels wounded and feels the other should have understood s/he didn't want to sleep with anyone else, but this is how Hollywood operates and it was a one time thing and s/he will never cheat again.

My questions: will readers be totally turned off by this romance?

I thought it would make for good conflict in their relationship but maybe this isnt the kind of conflict romance readers want to read?

I wanted to add to it by portraying them as childhood sweethearts. They met as infants and always knew how they felt about each other, which makes their break-up especially painful.

A year or two after the cheating, the one who cheated is a big famous star while the other is still an unknown. So the cheater manages to get the other a good role in his next film and then uses the opportunity to try to win the other back.

Then the producer who offered the part for sex is killed and the police have to figure out whodunnit among all the suspects, ie, the other actors etc.

so yes its more romantic mystery than pure romance but still, the romance will be strong too. So can I feature the cheating or will it turn all romance readers off?

Thanks for any feedback.

Marian Perera · Aug 15, 2017

It would be a good idea to read romances which include cheating and see how they pull it off.

MaeZe · Aug 15, 2017

"I know cheating is a huge no-no in romance..."

Why? That would limit a gazillion options for romance novels.

Good cheating
Bad cheating
Desperate cheating
Remorseful cheating
Get even cheating
He cheated, she recovered
She cheated, he found true love

Before he cheats

Such a satisfying song.

Right now, he's probably slow dancing
With a bleached-blond tramp
And she's probably getting frisky
Right now, he's probably buying her some fruity little drink
Cause she can't shoot whiskey
Right now, he's probably up behind her with a pool-stick
Showing her how to shoot a combo
And he don't know

I dug my key into the side of his
Pretty little souped up 4-wheel drive
Carved my name into his leather seats
I took a Louisville slugger to both headlights
Slashed a hole in all four tires
Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats...

I might've saved a little trouble for the next girl
Cause the next time that he cheats
Oh, you know it won't be on me
No, not on me

Brightdreamer · Aug 15, 2017

IIRC, it's only a no-no if one of the characters is married.

This just sounds like they're in a relationship, not actually married.

Marian Perera · Aug 15, 2017

Brightdreamer said:
IIRC, it's only a no-no if one of the characters is married.

I know of quite a few exceptions to this.

What's more difficult to pull off is a hero or heroine cheating on each other (as opposed to a hero or heroine trapped in a loveless marriage and cheating on the Evil Other Man/Woman).

yoghurtelf · Aug 15, 2017

There's a movie whose title I can't recall, but I started watching it and it was about a woman helping her best friend's fiance cheat - I stopped watching. Didn't interest me at all, as I was automatically not sympathetic to the characters who were doing the cheating and didn't really care what happened to them.

But that's just my taste, I guess.

frimble3 · Aug 15, 2017

IMHO this is the problem:

So the cheater manages to get the other a good role in his next film and then uses the opportunity to try to win the other back.

The cheater 'manages' to get the other a good role? It would be an awfully trusting person who wouldn't wonder how the cheater managed that and with whom. IMHO, and I have a suspicious nature.

Marian Perera · Aug 15, 2017

yoghurtelf said:
Didn't interest me at all, as I was automatically not sympathetic to the characters who were doing the cheating and didn't really care what happened to them.

But that's just my taste, I guess.

Mine too. Of all the romances I've read that featured a cheating character, only one really worked for me. And there, it was the hero cheating on his wife with the heroine, as opposed to the hero cheating on the heroine to boost his career (or vice versa).

MaeZe · Aug 15, 2017

yoghurtelf said:
There's a movie whose title I can't recall, but I started watching it and it was about a woman helping her best friend's fiance cheat - I stopped watching. Didn't interest me at all, as I was automatically not sympathetic to the characters who were doing the cheating and didn't really care what happened to them.

But that's just my taste, I guess.

Or it could just be that particular story didn't resonate.

yoghurtelf · Aug 15, 2017

Yes, could be.

I find it very difficult to be sympathetic to any cheaters though. Why don't you just break up with them? Grow some balls ffs.

yoghurtelf · Aug 15, 2017

I guess you could think about having it so the one who cheats suggests the idea to the partner, prior to 'cheating'. e.g. "If I do this, this could happen. Our dreams could come true." The partner is turned off and says, "it's me or your career!" and so the cheater goes ahead & decides to go for the career. I dunno. I like the idea of it being more up front than being actual cheating.

May not have the impact you're wanting though I guess.

MaeZe · Aug 15, 2017

yoghurtelf said:
Yes, could be.

I find it very difficult to be sympathetic to any cheaters though. Why don't you just break up with them? Grow some balls ffs.

I am not empathetic with cheaters. Don't get me wrong. I am, however, open to stories that go in many directions.

yoghurtelf · Aug 15, 2017

I can definitely see some instances where cheating would sort of be understandable. I am never really comfortable with stories where all is forgiven and the couple gets back together though. I guess I like to hold a grudge. heh

One of my novels features a woman gets cheated on, and although she and the guy never recover, she does move towards forgiving him because of the circumstances under which he made that decision (e.g. he was out of his mind with grief etc.).

Evelyn_Alexie · Aug 15, 2017

I would shut the book and not reconsider.

What you're describing sounds like conditional love. "Yes, I love you but I really want to be rich and successful and that's more important, I'm sure you understand."
What romance readers tend to want is unconditional love. "I'll love you and only you until the rivers run dry and the stars fall down from the sky."

It depends whether you want your story to be popular with a lot of romance readers or whether you are writing what you love and don't care if it is only popular with a subset of romance readers. I used to think I just wanted the $$$ but the longer I write, the more I've discovered that what I want is the connection between what I really wanted to write and that one reader who said "Yes! This is it!"

Not that I would mind the $$$. Just saying.

crossword · Aug 16, 2017

Thanks, everyone. Do you think it works when the cheater is not in love to begin with?

Eg like many people, my fave part of How to Get Away with Murder was the romance between Connor and Oliver. Connor was portrayed as a slutty user who treated Oliver badly and then cheated on him. But when Oliver then dumped him, Connor realized what he’d lost and reformed.

If my hero wasnt in love but realized what he’d lost when the heroine dumped him and then determined to win her back, would that work? Readers do love a reformed rake and that might be the only way cheating is acceptable.

yoghurtelf · Aug 16, 2017

That could work, yes, if it was sort of a casual acquaintance and they had agreed to no strings or whatever. Or at least had never discussed committing.

Marian Perera · Aug 16, 2017

crossword said:
If my hero wasnt in love but realized what he’d lost when the heroine dumped him and then determined to win her back, would that work? Readers do love a reformed rake and that might be the only way cheating is acceptable.

I'm just curious - is he going out with the heroine, sleeping with her, etc. without being in love with her? Why is he with her in the first place? ETA : Not that he needs to be in love with her at the start of the story, but if she matters so little to him that he'll cheat on her...

Readers do love a reformed rake when there's something compelling and attractive about the rake. I'm not sure what, about this hero, is supposed to be compelling.

But if you're determined to write a story where a man cheats on a woman and gets her back in the end, go ahead.

crossword · Aug 16, 2017

And how do you guys feel about an MC who leaves their SO for something, even if its not for another person?

Recently I read this gay romance where the two were lovers at 17, then one broke the others heart by deciding to become a priest. They then met 17 years later and the priest “realized” even at 17 he’d loved his lover more than he loved God, and he quit being a priest.

I read the book because the premise was interesting but I knew going in the priest character would annoy me a lot. He made his lover suffer for so long and for no good reason. The lover became a famous rock star but also a depressed drug addict.
I would even have rather the lower had cheated on the priest and thats why he left him.
I don't like cheating in romance but I loathe even more the two separated for years, either because of some dumb misunderstanding or because they didn't realize when younger that person was the one. What a lot of years wasted when they could have been together. In a way I felt the priest cheated, choosing something else over his lover.

Marian Perera · Aug 16, 2017

crossword said:
And how do you guys feel about an MC who leaves their SO for something, even if its not for another person?

Are we discussing a specific story idea, or brainstorming different reasons why someone would leave a person they care about?

yoghurtelf · Aug 16, 2017

I don't mind so much if two lovers find their way back to each other. I think for me it's the cheating thing that is a deal breaker.

It's one thing if they are casual and never really commit to each other - e.g. if it's unrequited love or whatever, and then the other character realises later that the love was there and they get together. But when someone in a committed relationship cheats, to me that's a deal breaker. I can see why they would leave for another reason, e.g. if it's long distance and not working out, and one feels like it has to end.

ElaineA · Aug 16, 2017

I'm going to do a running commentary so you can see my reaction as I read your premise.

crossword said:
I had this idea where the hero and heroine are both aspiring actors. they’ve been in love since they attended acting school together or else they fell in love when both trying desperately to make it, trying out for audition after audition. Hmm, if they're in love at the beginning, what is there to read to the end for? Every romance reader knows the end (HEA). Seeing how the couple make it to that point is what drives readers to pick up the book.

So when the story opens they are already in love and very close. They both have little money and take on any temp jobs like waitressing to pay the rent.

Then either the hero or the heroine is offered a big part if they sleep with the producer or director. WUT? On the page? Like, not before the book starts?

Because he or she is desperate, he or she agrees. *my head is shaking no no no* Then their SO finds out, breaks up with them. *blinks* yeah

The one who cheated feels wounded <--WUT? The cheater is going to play victim? No. Here is where you lose me 100% and feels the other should have understood s/he didn't want to sleep with anyone else, but this is how Hollywood operates and it was a one time thing and s/he will never cheat again. <--Why the heck would the cheated-on one ever believe that? I mean, there's always a "desperate for the part" situation for actors, right?

My questions: will readers be totally turned off by this romance? I would be. And, frankly, it doesn't feel like a romance.

I thought it would make for good conflict in their relationship but maybe this isnt the kind of conflict romance readers want to read? I can see it being good for WF

I wanted to add to it by portraying them as childhood sweethearts. They met as infants and always knew how they felt about each other, which makes their break-up especially painful.

A year or two after the cheating, the one who cheated is a big famous star while the other is still an unknown. So the cheater manages to get the other a good role in his next film and then uses the opportunity to try to win the other back. That's probably good grist for conflict, but I already hate the cheater, both for cheating and for being manipulative at this point. Basically what the cheater is doing is making the other to do what the cheater did. Have sex for a part. Or as thanks for getting a part. So now, the cheatee will either behave just as badly...or not. And I'm seriously rooting for them to say FU to the cheater, thus eliminating all hope for romance

Then the producer who offered the part for sex is killed and the police have to figure out whodunnit among all the suspects, ie, the other actors etc. Wait,
so the cheating is all backstory, or all chapter 1?

crossword said:
so yes its more romantic mystery than pure romance but still, the romance will be strong too. So can I feature the cheating or will it turn all romance readers off?

Thanks for any feedback.

Okay, this feels like one of those situations where the writer knows the entire backstory, but the reader doesn't need to see it all play out. IF you want this to be Romance, I could see a situation where the cheating is all in their past. Unbeknownst to the cheatee, the cheater has gotten cheatee a part on this movie, but cheatee keeps cheater at arm's length and maintains professionalism. This puts the exes in proximity when the director is murdered. At that point the cheatee might be willing to help the cheater clear their name, and they work together to figure out whodunit, also maybe rekindling their romance. The key for me would be to see abject groveling on the part of the cheater. I really detest the bit about the cheater expecting the cheatee to understand "that's how it is in Hollywood, I'll never do it again." They have to know they effed up. Big.

Marian Perera · Aug 16, 2017

ElaineA said:
I really detest the bit about the cheater expecting the cheatee to understand "that's how it is in Hollywood, I'll never do it again." They have to know they effed up. Big.

Another aspect of this that I dislike is cheater trying to hide the infidelity from the cheatee.

If it's normal in Hollywood to have sex in exchange for work, why doesn't the cheater tell the cheatee, "Sweetheart, Big Famous Director just offered me a part in the movie of the year if I have sex with him. Would you be okay with that?"

The fact that cheater keeps this a secret = awareness that cheatee will be hurt if the truth comes out. Bad enough to betray someone's trust, but lying to them on top of that would make me hate this person. As Elaine said, if this is a romance, we need to see abject groveling and real character improvement, not the cheater acting as if he/she is the victim here.

Jenna Reads · Aug 16, 2017

For me, this would entirely depend on where they are as human beings, when this happens in the context of the story, and what they are like when I meet them as a reader.

If the story opens where they are happily in love and think they are devoted to each other and then one sees this as an opportunity, goes through with it, then expects to return to the partner as though nothing happened...Nope, not gonna work for me. I'll dislike the one who cheated and the one who takes the cheater back.

If the story starts where this happened in the past, and these two are reconnecting with this history between them, then I'd read on with the expectation that the one who cheated would be making some Huge Display of how trustworthy they now were. I'm not sure how much I would sympathize with either character, but I'd be curious enough to see what huge thing would happen to prove the cheater's new devotion.

There's no such thing as a total "no-no" in my opinion, in writing. Its just how its presented, how well written and whether the author can seduce me into suspending my beliefs.

yoghurtelf · Aug 16, 2017

ElaineA's suggested premise would work, I think. But the cheater would definitely need to grovel, big time. And I would be more 'comfortable' reading on if they had only ever been a casual thing in the past (or if the cheatee felt that they were, even if the cheater had never promised anything), not a committed couple.

Marissa D · Aug 16, 2017

I think you could write it any way you want--just don't try to call it a romance. It doesn't particularly sound like one anyway--the focus of the story doesn't seem to be the development of the hero and heroine's relationship.

I know cheating is a huge no-no in romance, but

starting over

Just Another Lazy Perfectionist

starting over

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

Heckuva good sport

starting over

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

starting over

starting over

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

All about that action, boss.

starting over

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

Scribe of the girls in the basement