Nazi Playbook in Action, Charlottesville, VA

MaeZe · Aug 15, 2017

Lyv said:
ProPublica has a clickable list of congress members' statements about Charlottesville.

As to why these statues were erected, I look to this:

Striking graphic reveals the construction of Confederate monuments peaked during the Jim Crow and civil rights eras

Interesting. This NPR interviewee, Edward Ayers, suggested it was when the surviving confederate soldiers were dying.

The shifting history of Confederate monuments

Some memorials to fallen Confederate soldiers began immediately after the Civil War, but what we think of as these Confederate statues are really much more a product of the 1890s to World War I period.

And so decades go by after the end of the Civil War before this widespread effort to memorialize the Confederacy appears. And you might say, well, why the lag? Well, it’s, in part, because that’s when Confederate veterans were dying.

And their daughters, United Daughters of the Confederacy, took main responsibility for making sure that they were not forgotten. And so they raised money in small towns and large cities all across the South to put up these memorials to the Confederate soldiers.

MaeZe · Aug 15, 2017

As for the argument, we'll never get away from the two-party system if people won't vote third party: I agree with the argument people need to build those parties from the ground up, not just toss in POTUS candidates and sell them on the idea the candidates represent a protest vote on the two-party system. Neither Stein nor Johnson were qualified to be POTUS, especially Stein.

You might argue Johnson was qualified given he'd been a governor, and if you'd voted for him in a state where either of the two main candidates were guaranteed to win, I could see the vote. But anyone who voted third party in any states where the vote was close might as well have voted for Trump. We should have learned that lesson with 8 years of GW's wars.

I understand the third-party arguments, and of course people have a right to their opinions about this. This is my opinion. Trump was too dangerous to vote for anyone but Clinton because one had some ideological or dislike of Clinton grounds. And Trump is proving that assessment right.

frimble3 · Aug 15, 2017

cmhbob said:
I've heard it suggested that the statues be moved to a museum. That would seem reasonable.

A nice sculpture garden, with the figures arranged by branch of service and rank. Maybe some people will stop and consider why there are so many statues of officers and cavalrymen, and so few of infantrymen, who made up so much of the army.

Lyv · Aug 15, 2017

MaeZe said:
Interesting. This NPR interviewee, Edward Ayers, suggested it was when the surviving confederate soldiers were dying.

The shifting history of Confederate monuments

Interesting. That could very well be a factor, but both spikes, especially the second spike during the civil rights era, suggest to me that it wasn't the only one. The graphic came from SPLC, part of their publication Whose Heritage? Public Symbols of the Confederacy. I need to read that and the NPR interview.

CWatts · Aug 15, 2017

Slate is reporting that in January, Fox News ran what amounted to an instructional video for attacking protesters with cars: http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ates_how_to_plow_through_protesters_with.html

What follows is one of the more disgusting and prominent examples of the trend: a 90-second video published by the Daily Caller, the conservative site founded by Tucker Carlson. The video, which the Daily Caller’s Mike Raust published on Jan. 28—the day that Donald Trump’s travel ban brought thousands of demonstrators to international airports—is set to a folksy cover of the 2001 Ludacris hit “Move Bitch."

I hope Heather Heyer's family and the injured victims sue for millions over this.

Splendor · Aug 15, 2017

ElaineA said:
It's a bit different for the WINNER to keep blathering on about the election. For those of us who didn't vote for him--well, I, for one, am still trying to understand how the f*** we got here. Whether it's votes, or ill-education, or media, or whatever it is. It's only been 7 months. I'm still going through the grief stages, meanwhile being assaulted every single day by new and worse outrages. So, no. Not moving on, no matter how much people tell me to. Not while there's still analysis to be done.

And no, I don't feel it's one bit hypocritical to tell the guy who won to sit down, shut up and get to work.

Me, too. I still can hardly sit in a room with my mother-in-law, even though she regrets her support of him now. She knew better when she cast her ballot. We all told her what a buffoon he was. I certainly have never been so silent in her presence as I am now, but all I want to do is say, "HOW COULD YOU?" over and over, and it would cause my husband a lot of pain. So I (mostly) zip my mouth and stew, although I've had a few notable outbursts. If she dares to mention Hillary, or alludes to race in *any* conversational context, all bets are off.

So so true and well said. Exactly when is he going to get to work instead of treating this office like a publicity stunt.

I can only imagine how difficult it is to have a close family member that voted for this horrible man. I have definitely categorized people that voted for him as people I want nothing to do with and I never felt this way about previous Presidents of opposing parties. Sad how evil and divisive he and his supporters are.

JJ Litke · Aug 15, 2017

cmhbob said:
And Mr. Trump is any better than Mr. Johnson or Ms. Stein? Is that what you're trying to say?

I voted for Gary Johnson because I really thought he'd be better for the country. Aleppo moment aside, he had a knack in New Mexico of reaching across the aisle and trying to build a compromise. Thats' what I thought this country needed, so that's why I voted for him.

ETA: I didn't vote for Mrs. Clinton because I thought she brought too much baggage to the office, and that she wasn't right for the presidency. I didn't vote for Ms. Stein because I didn't know enough about her, and because IIRC she didn't have a mathematical chance of winning. I'm not at all against the idea of a woman as president. But I didn't and don't think Mrs. Clinton was the right woman.

ETA2: Any vote for any party other than the Republican party in my state was a useless vote. In the two prior elections, we had a total of one county who voted for Mr. Obama, and that only in his first election. Voting non-Republican in this state is rather like a Californian voting non-Democrat.

It's more than a little annoying to keep hearing these arguments now 10 months after the election. People complain about Mr. Trump still harping on the election, and here we are doing the same thing. It's over. Move on with trying to fix things and mitigate the samage. Quit fighting a battle that's been decided.

I used this same kind of logic when I voted for Nader back in 2000. And I was defensive afterward, claiming I had voted my conscience, it wasn't my fault, my state was going to go red anyway. Eventually I forced myself to realize the truth, that I used overly simplistic logic to justify a choice that would make me feel better and smarter (as if elections should be about self-fulfillment). It was a "protest vote" to show the parties that I don't like what they offered--I put that in quotes because the parties don't actually give a crap, and so-called protest votes are useless. Nader had zero chance, Johnson and Stein had zero chance. All three of them irresponsibly helped to sabotage our elections, and those of us who voted for them were total fools to fall for it.

Roxxsmom · Aug 15, 2017

MaeZe said:
Interesting. This NPR interviewee, Edward Ayers, suggested it was when the surviving confederate soldiers were dying.

The shifting history of Confederate monuments

So he's saying the association with the Plessy vs Ferguson case mentioned up thread is a coincidence.

Could be, but given the second spike that occurred during the 50s and 60s, I think "southern pride" could possibly have a more sinister explanation.

Of course, the two things aren't mutually exclusive.

And again, how would the rest of the world feel if Germans start putting up Nazi shrines right around now, when many WWII veterans are dying off?

Note, I don't think there's anything wrong with historical sites and facilities aimed at educating people about a period in history and its causes and costs, but that's not what these monuments are about, and that's clearly not how many people regard them.

Lyv · Aug 15, 2017

I can't bring myself to listen, but *45 has apparently gone off script at a presser and is outright blaming the left for the violence at Charlottesville. In case you want to catch any of it.

hester · Aug 15, 2017

Yep. He's blaming the "alt left." Just when you think he can't say anything worse...he does

.

Splendor · Aug 15, 2017

I just rcvd an email they plan to disrupt Ms. Heyer's funeral. BREAKING, we're hearing reports that the website The Daily Stormer is planning to send Nazis to the funeral of Heather Heyer, the woman killed by a white nationalist in Charlottesville.

Lyv · Aug 15, 2017

According to *45, there were "very fine people" on both sides at Charlottesville (though his harshest words were reserved for the left). I'm waiting for a full transcript, because outlets are quoting different parts and I want to present it all. I really may be physically sick.

rugcat · Aug 15, 2017

hester said:
Yep. He's blaming the "alt left." Just when you think he can't say anything worse...he does .

It's like Charlie Brown and the football. Surely, we think, this time he won't double down. Surely he won't continue to defend Neo-Nazis, of all people.

But of course, he did. According to trump it was a bad situation with bad people on both sides, and "both sides" are to blame. Neo-Nazis and people protesting against them are just two sides of a coinl, both with valid disagreements, I guess.

He also went out of his way to portray the alt right rally as some bad people mixed in with the many peaceful protesters who were there simply to honor their heritage and protest the statues being taken down. I honestly think he's misreading the country. I believe there are a significant number of Trump supporters who actually are not white supremacists, nor do they support the ideas of nazism. I expect his approval rating in the polls to drop even further.

If I turn out to be wrong, and his approval numbers go up, I will start to lose what little hope I have for this country.

lizmonster · Aug 15, 2017

Lyv said:
According to *45, there were "very fine people" on both sides at Charlottesville (though his harshest words were reserved for the left). I'm waiting for a full transcript, because outlets are quoting different parts and I want to present it all. I really may be physically sick.

You know, until now I was willing to entertain the possibility that he was just a puppet. Not anymore.

We have a white supremecist in the White House.

Lyv · Aug 15, 2017

Yeah, we do. That grudging statement yesterday was scripted. Today is all him.

ElaineA · Aug 15, 2017

We do, but their names are Bannon, Miller & Gorka. Trump's a vitriolic, but garden-variety racist. He's too self-immersed to care about anything as "grand" as white supremacy or white nationalism. He already lives it. He doesn't care about what other people want, or how they'd prefer to live.

MaeZe · Aug 15, 2017

Lyv said:
I can't bring myself to listen, but *45 has apparently gone off script at a presser and is outright blaming the left for the violence at Charlottesville. In case you want to catch any of it.

OMG! That was such a melt-down and so full of ignorance and horrible statements, even Fox News is condemning him for it. No telling how Hannity and Carlson will defend it (I'm sure they will), but I fully expected to see a defense of that rant on Fox and instead, five talking heads all expressed disgust and disappointment of #45.

MaeZe · Aug 15, 2017

lizmonster said:
You know, until now I was willing to entertain the possibility that he was just a puppet. Not anymore.

We have a white supremecist in the White House.

That was clear before but a lot of people, including many Republicans, just didn't want to believe it. Many supporters still profess that, if you knew him you'd know he wasn't racist. If anyone had any doubts, this rant of a press conference should dispel that wishful thinking.

I think it will chip more off the 45 block. But then we'll see by the polls just how many in our country are also alt-white* racists.

*not a typo

cornflake · Aug 15, 2017

I really enjoyed equating confederate leaders with George Washington. That was a moment.

I don't even... I'm willing to bet Miller has been talking to him all morning. Jesus. That was something.

David Duke twitted 'thank you.' He's understating it.

Celia Cyanide · Aug 15, 2017

Twick said:
That is the problem, of course, with third-party candidates. If no one votes for them because they can't win, they'll never build up a base where they can win. Classic vicious circle.

They need to get better third party candidates.

And what are the Libertarians going to do if they do get 5% and get Federal funding? Won't that make them the most hypocritical party ever, considering they don't want Federal funding for anything else?

Roxxsmom · Aug 15, 2017

rugcat said:
But of course, he did. According to trump it was a bad situation with bad people on both sides, and "both sides" are to blame. Neo-Nazis and people protesting against them are just two sides of a coinl, both with valid disagreements, I guess.

This argument is nothing new. The idea that hate, intolerance and policies aimed at limiting the lives and freedoms of select groups of people represent "legitimate political views" has been chanted almost everywhere, from defenders of gamergate and the rabid puppies, to people who think we should be allowed to discriminate against LGBTQ people (and many others as well) for "religious" reasons. We have a president who is an apologist for white nationalists and other hate groups. He didn't exactly hide this while he was running, yet some (mostly on the right) profess to be shocked.

There were people giving Nazi salutes and waving confederate flags at his rallies, ffs. When some of us pointed to those pictures and videos we were dismissed (even by some of our political allies) and told that this represented sampling bias and that those supporters represented a tiny fringe, even among Trump supporters.

I know the left and right disagree about practically everything, but can we at least be on the same page with regards to the evil of white nationalists and neo-fascist movements? Can we at least agree (now) that Trump is in bed with these groups, wallowing around in slick, oiled glee.

And can we count on the party that is in power right now to maintain their shock and outrage and help the rest of us get rid of this boil on the ass of humanity?

Lyv · Aug 15, 2017

MaeZe said:
OMG! That was such a melt-down and so full of ignorance and horrible statements, even Fox News is condemning him for it. No telling how Hannity and Carlson will defend it (I'm sure they will), but I fully expected to see a defense of that rant on Fox and instead, five talking heads all expressed disgust and disappointment of #45.

Birtherism is what made me think Trump wasn't just an opportunist who'd throw in with any group who'd line his pockets and give him power and adulation, but an actual racist. When he went after President Obama, he chose to do in a way that a racist would. He kept demanding that a man of color show him his papers. Now, I watched clips from the presser and that emotion, wow, he's a white supremacist. Maybe he wasn't always, but he is now. That's more than just being angry at the public and media outcry.

Ava DuVernay is trying to get the #KlanPresident to trend on Twitter. Ava wants it, I am there for her.

Twick · Aug 15, 2017

Lyv said:
According to *45, there were "very fine people" on both sides at Charlottesville (though his harshest words were reserved for the left). I'm waiting for a full transcript, because outlets are quoting different parts and I want to present it all. I really may be physically sick.

I swear I will be dead of a brain hemorrhage before this man is out of office.

Mclesh · Aug 15, 2017

Twick said:
I swear I will be dead of a brain hemorrhage before this man is out of office.

I was feeling okay, got home, saw footage of his press conference today. All I can say is holy fucking shit.

lizmonster · Aug 15, 2017

ElaineA said:
We do, but their names are Bannon, Miller & Gorka. Trump's a vitriolic, but garden-variety racist. He's too self-immersed to care about anything as "grand" as white supremacy or white nationalism. He already lives it. He doesn't care about what other people want, or how they'd prefer to live.

I'd given him this much of the benefit of the doubt before. I don't anymore. Whether he's officially aligned with any specific group or not - look at who he hired from the get-go.

I really wanted to believe he was just senile, and that the establishment GOP would be able to get a handle on him. Goodness, I was foolish.

Nazi Playbook in Action, Charlottesville, VA

Heckuva good sport

I meant to do that.

down the rabbit hole of research...

People are not wearing enough hats

Beastly Fido

I meant to do that.

New year, new avatar.

I meant to do that.

Lost in the Fog

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

I meant to do that.

All about that action, boss.

practical experience, FTW

Joker Groupie

Beastly Fido

I meant to do that.

It's too hot

Possibly A Mermaid Queen