Nazi Playbook in Action, Charlottesville, VA

rugcat said:

It's really not. The violence from the alt right during this Neo Nazi demonstration is receiving condemnation from everyone, left, right, and center. Except, unsurprisingly, Donald Trump.

Far from showing the strength of the alt right movement, it's nothing but a big setback for them and their ideals. They are dangerous people and need to be taken seriously. But the ground is not crumbling, not by any means.

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I want to believe this, but I'm skeptical. They don't have to be the majority, they just have to be the ones in control--and right now, they are. Yes, various GOP members came out with strong and clear statements against the white nationalists and their actions in VA, but thus far we've got nothing that shows us they will back up those words with their votes and actions. What was it, two weeks ago our current DOJ said gay rights weren't protected under Federal civil rights? We've basically got nazis in the White House advising the president and making statements to the press.

As for "regular people" who voted for 45 but say they don't support the white nationalists, what I saw/heard today was them still referring to the nazis at the rally as alt-right and lots of straw men arguments refusing to discuss what was actually happening, instead only focusing on the right to free speech. Maybe those willing to carry torches are only a few thousand or a hundred thousand nationwide, but those regular people unwilling to step up and say a clear, firm NO, willing to accept the loss of rights for fellow Americans and violence against them? Now we're talking about tens of millions.

This atrocity hits home for me. I'm only an hour's drive away and know people who counterprotested. Still processing it, and trying to plan a response when the racists march in Richmond next month.

The car attack murdered a 32-year-old woman, Heather Heyer. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...est-white-supremacist-rally-article-1.3407863

The two Virginia statetroopers killed in the helicopter crash hve also been identified: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-.../violence-in-charlottesville-claims-3-victims

I am disappointed the car killer has only been charged with second degree murder, which carries a maximum of 40 years.

ap123 said:

I want to believe this, but I'm skeptical. They don't have to be the majority, they just have to be the ones in control--and right now, they are. Yes, various GOP members came out with strong and clear statements against the white nationalists and their actions in VA, but thus far we've got nothing that shows us they will back up those words with their votes and actions. What was it, two weeks ago our current DOJ said gay rights weren't protected under Federal civil rights? We've basically got nazis in the White House advising the president and making statements to the press.

As for "regular people" who voted for 45 but say they don't support the white nationalists, what I saw/heard today was them still referring to the nazis at the rally as alt-right and lots of straw men arguments refusing to discuss what was actually happening, instead only focusing on the right to free speech. Maybe those willing to carry torches are only a few thousand or a hundred thousand nationwide, but those regular people unwilling to step up and say a clear, firm NO, willing to accept the loss of rights for fellow Americans and violence against them? Now we're talking about tens of millions.

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+1

Some time ago, I read an article on bullying, where it claimed studies showed that the minority were actively bullies or actively bullied. When the majority were silent, it continued, escalated even. When the majority became involved, bullying essentially stopped. As the saying goes, silence implies consent.

Right now, we have a minority of bullies in power, and a silent majority unwilling to step in...

regdog said:

It's 8:27AM Eastern Time, the day after the attack and DJT has not denounced Nazis.

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Nope, but the "passive" racists on Twitter will insist he has. And that the left hasn't denounced antifa, and they're exceptionally happy to equate the Charlottesville Nazis with BLM.

I'm done with Twitter for a while.

Meanwhile, when I went into B&N to get Mom's birthday present, their display shelves were flooded with books supporting this kind of ideology, including one about the "Nazi roots of the American left." Someone explain to me how the people fighting for equality are the Nazis, and not the people literally practicing the Nazi salute.

Brightdreamer said:

+1

Some time ago, I read an article on bullying, where it claimed studies showed that the minority were actively bullies or actively bullied. When the majority were silent, it continued, escalated even. When the majority became involved, bullying essentially stopped. As the saying goes, silence implies consent.

Right now, we have a minority of bullies in power, and a silent majority unwilling to step in...

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I'll quote Edmund Burke.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Brightdreamer said:

+1

Some time ago, I read an article on bullying, where it claimed studies showed that the minority were actively bullies or actively bullied. When the majority were silent, it continued, escalated even. When the majority became involved, bullying essentially stopped. As the saying goes, silence implies consent.

Right now, we have a minority of bullies in power, and a silent majority unwilling to step in...

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Here's a recent article on anti-bullying successes in Finland. This article is too pessimistic for my taste, but raises some real issues in US schools and by extension American society in general.

A few months ago, I took part in an excellent bystander intervention workshop, where the main point is to ignore the aggressor and respond with kindness and compassion to the target. I thought it was genius, and after these horrific events yesterday, I see how focusing on supporting the target of the aggression allows me to respond with maximum love instead of gearing up for a fight and my emotions getting the better of me with hateful words or fists (or worse), which is what I would do if I confronted the aggressor. This also lowers the barrier for entry into resolving a situation, and more people will intervene if they are supporting a target rather than confronting a bully. The training made no bones about stressing that certain situations are completely beyond any resolution, and inaction running when necessary are valid responses if my intervention would only escalate things. But, I have used these new techniques at times I wouldn't have if I were expected to confront the aggressor.

Someone upthread asked what can be done. This. Do this when you can.

I'm hoping that this event serves as a reminder to the left (or heck, any one, liberal, moderate, or conservative, who decries bigotry and has a shred of human decency) to remain engaged and to not hunker down and wait until the next election or whatever. Those haters are out there, and they want there to be civil disorder, fear, and chaos.

With one outrage after another, it's easy to be overwhelmed, or to have "outrage exhaustion" or whatever it's called. After a while, it's hard to respond to every idiotic tweet or proposed policy that would undo yet another program or marginalize yet another group. I know I've been feeling glassy eyed and helpless, unsure of what to do or how to do it.

I still feel overwhelmed and unsure. I've tried joining a couple of organizations that are supposed to be grass roots, but I don't seem to have any skills or knowledge that these organizations need. I have no idea how to organize events, create web sites, fund raise, make political connections, or how to to give stirring speeches. And those meetings and town halls usually fall on evenings when I have another obligation or am just plain exhausted (and I admit, I'm a bit shy and unsure of what to expect or how to behave at such things).

And writing my representative and senators feels like a symbolic gesture, since they're already voting against the things the GOP is trying to ram through.

I'm sure others have the same problem. But we need to find a way to sustain engagement and outrage and to get more people than usual out to vote in the next midterm election. We need to find a way to fight. One of my friends told me her son (recently graduated from college and unemployed at the time) volunteered for the Democrats last election and drove people who needed rides to the polls in my district, which is one of the closest in the country. I'm not thrilled with my Democratic rep, but he's infinitely better than the Republican who ran against him. We may owe this particular Democrat's victory to volunteers like my friend's son.

It's something to think about.

ElaineA said:

There are hundreds of vigils across the country today, in solidarity with Charlottesville and against hate. Here's the Indivisible page. Plug your zip code in and see what's close to you.

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And next Saturday, a "free speech rally," headlined by various white supremacists, which may or may not be organized by the same group as yesterday's hate rally, is coming to Boston. The mayor says there is no permit request yet, but if you're around Boston next weekend, you may want to keep an eye on this and consider attending a counter-protest if you're able (I'm hoping to be but probably not).

This Is Not "the fringe." This Is America.

Leaving this here. Because it's true.



The comforts in considering the white nationalists in Charlottesville, Va., to be fringe are obvious. For white people, speaking of them and their views as if they’re unique and anomalous allows them (the “good” white people) to distinguish themselves from these racists, while also minimizing their ubiquity and influence. If they’re fringe—if they only exist in the crevices and butt cracks of the country—the good white people can continue to believe they’ve done enough, and they can eat their quiche with peace of mind.


And, for those of us (and “us” could be Black people, Latinos, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals and anyone else the nationalists believe are oppressing them and wish to rid America of) who still believe in the fantasy of the fringe alt-right, the comfort exists in convincing ourselves that there just aren’t that many of them. Because if they’re not fringe, if they’re actually everywhere, then ... fuck.


Unfortunately, “then ... fuck” is the reality. The men and women who marched last night, chanting and hashtagging #unitetheright, and the men and women in Charlottesville today, are not fringe. They are not unique. Perhaps they exist in the crevices and butt cracks, but they’re in the coffeeshops and boardrooms too. They are your neighbors. Our neighbors. My neighbors. They’re schoolteachers and Little League baseball coaches; bartenders and accountants; architects and marketing directors; registered nurses and police officers. They wait on your tables, they answer the phones when you call tech support, they fly your planes when you travel to Phoenix, they deliver your UPS packages and leave notes when you’re not there and they perform surgeries on your broken limbs. And for the white people who believe they’ve done enough, who believe their hands are washed, they’re at your kitchen tables and happy hours and bbqs and weddings. They’re in your families. They’re on your couches. They’re on your T-Mobile family plans. They’re in your beds.


There were enough of them to elect Donald Trump, enough of them to applaud and support the ascension of Steve Bannon and the appointment of Jeff Sessions. Enough white men and women so dead set on retaining whichever privileges they believe to be their white birthrights that they’d rather there not be an Earth than exist without that status.


They are everywhere.

This isn't directly about Charlottesville, and if it's a potential derail, I will delete, but one day after Charlottesville, Trump released a campaign video I find chilling, and seems straight out of the Nazi playbook. A montage of journalists and Democrats is shown, and the voiceover talks about the president's "enemies" not letting him get anything done, except he's apparently done all kinds of amazing things.

I don't think the timing is a coincidence.

White House correspondent April Ryan tweeted:

Sad day I am singled out as an enemy of the White House as this racial hate is going on just for asking real questions and speaking truth.

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nighttimer said:

There were enough of them to elect Donald Trump, enough of them to applaud and support the ascension of Steve Bannon and the appointment of Jeff Sessions. Enough white men and women so dead set on retaining whichever privileges they believe to be their white birthrights that they’d rather there not be an Earth than exist without that status.


They are everywhere.

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QFT.

If you voted for Trump, you voted for hate and racism. You voted for white supremacy. No excuses.

Oh my word, watching a live stream of the Seattle counter protest against the "patriot prayer" (aka the white supremacists) gathering.

http://www.kiro7.com/livestream/live-event

The protest crowd is not quite a symbol of peace. They are chanting things like 'the police are with the KKK' and spraying them with silly string. Crowd got too close and the police fired flash bang grenades or maybe tear gas, and pepper sprayed people. The crowd immediately backed up.

Live blog: Seattle counter-protesters march as ‘patriot’ group gathers

Not sure what the cops are supposed to do, clearly there is a reason to keep these two groups separated by a couple blocks.

The protest crowd is getting bigger. There's not as much coverage of the patriot prayer, so that's a good thing. It's clearly smaller, started out with just a couple dozen people but said to be growing. And it sounds like many of the bigots came from out of town to protest our liberal city.

Live stream switched briefly to speakers at the patriot prayer.

MaeZe said:

Oh my word, watching a live stream of the Seattle counter protest against the "patriot prayer" (aka the white supremacists) gathering.

http://www.kiro7.com/livestream/live-event

The protest crowd is not quite a symbol of peace. They are chanting things like 'the police are with the KKK' and spraying them with silly string. Crowd got too close and the police fired flash bang grenades or maybe tear gas, and pepper sprayed people. The crowd immediately backed up.

Live blog: Seattle counter-protesters march as ‘patriot’ group gathers

Not sure what the cops are supposed to do, clearly there is a reason to keep these two groups separated by a couple blocks.

The protest crowd is getting bigger. There's not as much coverage of the patriot prayer, so that's a good thing. It's clearly smaller, started out with just a couple dozen people but said to be growing. And it sounds like many of the bigots came from out of town to protest our liberal city.

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It was actually alleged in one of the videos that ElaineA linked (I'm 90% sure it was the first one) that the police would react with far more violence to the counter-protest than the supposed 'patriots,' and with far less provocation. But I didn't see that part of the livestream to know the exact context. I will say, though, that silly string hardly seems a threat to anyone, unless maybe you swallow it.

nighttimer said:

They are everywhere.

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This is very true.

Anyone who thinks otherwise should look at this map (and I'm guessing it's far from exhaustive).

https://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

While the nature of the hate groups varies with region, and overall they seem most concentrated in the South (thanks to the KKK and neo Confederate groups being especially strong there), they are everywhere. I was shocked how many are in our "blue" state of CA. There are far fewer in some other western states that have a worse reputation, though that might be a matter of overall population. Another thing to consider is that, in the age of the internet, a group that's officially headquartered in one particular place can reach people across the entire country, even world.

Roxxsmom said:

I still feel overwhelmed and unsure. I've tried joining a couple of organizations that are supposed to be grass roots, but I don't seem to have any skills or knowledge that these organizations need. I have no idea how to organize events, create web sites, fund raise, make political connections, or how to to give stirring speeches. And those meetings and town halls usually fall on evenings when I have another obligation or am just plain exhausted (and I admit, I'm a bit shy and unsure of what to expect or how to behave at such things).

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I done did a quick Google, and came up with the Community Tool Box from the University of Kansas. There is a TON of information on that website, and I honestly haven't done more than browsed the TOC and looked at a couple of the items under the "Organizing for Effective Advocacy" section, which has material on organizing rallies, events, etc. If anything it's a place to start, and if you can get a couple people to go through the relevant material with you that will probably make it much easier to digest. I also looked at Coursera and FutureLearn, but those are more academic. I'm sure there are other how-to resources out there.

I sometimes forget my flyover state upbringing and take for granted how easy it is to get involved here where I live now.

JetFueledCar said:

It was actually alleged in one of the videos that ElaineA linked (I'm 90% sure it was the first one) that the police would react with far more violence to the counter-protest than the supposed 'patriots,' and with far less provocation. But I didn't see that part of the livestream to know the exact context. I will say, though, that silly string hardly seems a threat to anyone, unless maybe you swallow it.

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The cops ignored the silly string. They acted when the crowd began surging into their line.

There's no question the police here have been hostile to protestors. There have been some nasty caught-on-tape incidents involving them attacking peaceful protesters.

But I can't blame the cops for orders to keep the two groups apart.

Roxxsmom said:

I'm hoping that this event serves as a reminder to the left (or heck, any one, liberal, moderate, or conservative, who decries bigotry and has a shred of human decency) to remain engaged and to not hunker down and wait until the next election or whatever. Those haters are out there, and they want there to be civil disorder, fear, and chaos.

With one outrage after another, it's easy to be overwhelmed, or to have "outrage exhaustion" or whatever it's called. After a while, it's hard to respond to every idiotic tweet or proposed policy that would undo yet another program or marginalize yet another group. I know I've been feeling glassy eyed and helpless, unsure of what to do or how to do it.

I still feel overwhelmed and unsure. I've tried joining a couple of organizations that are supposed to be grass roots, but I don't seem to have any skills or knowledge that these organizations need. I have no idea how to organize events, create web sites, fund raise, make political connections, or how to to give stirring speeches. And those meetings and town halls usually fall on evenings when I have another obligation or am just plain exhausted (and I admit, I'm a bit shy and unsure of what to expect or how to behave at such things).

And writing my representative and senators feels like a symbolic gesture, since they're already voting against the things the GOP is trying to ram through.

I'm sure others have the same problem. But we need to find a way to sustain engagement and outrage and to get more people than usual out to vote in the next midterm election. We need to find a way to fight. One of my friends told me her son (recently graduated from college and unemployed at the time) volunteered for the Democrats last election and drove people who needed rides to the polls in my district, which is one of the closest in the country. I'm not thrilled with my Democratic rep, but he's infinitely better than the Republican who ran against him. We may owe this particular Democrat's victory to volunteers like my friend's son.

It's something to think about.

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Not necessarily directed at Roxxsmom, but does anyone know how one might go about finding activist organizations in one's area? I would like to be involved, in the process rather than the individual events, but my Google-fu is entirely geared toward finding out information. It's rather lacking when it comes to finding things I might want to be a part of. (Not limited to activism, either. I had the same problem when I started looking for jobs.)

JetFueledCar said:

Not necessarily directed at Roxxsmom, but does anyone know how one might go about finding activist organizations in one's area? I would like to be involved, in the process rather than the individual events, but my Google-fu is entirely geared toward finding out information. It's rather lacking when it comes to finding things I might want to be a part of. (Not limited to activism, either. I had the same problem when I started looking for jobs.)

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Are there local ACLU and NAACP offices in your area?

You can go to https://www.indivisibleguide.com/act-locally/ and see whether there's an Indivisible group in your area. You can start one if there isn't.

Or you can choose a specific platform and Google. For example, environmental activist group in (where ever you live).

JetFueledCar said:

Not necessarily directed at Roxxsmom, but does anyone know how one might go about finding activist organizations in one's area? I would like to be involved, in the process rather than the individual events, but my Google-fu is entirely geared toward finding out information. It's rather lacking when it comes to finding things I might want to be a part of. (Not limited to activism, either. I had the same problem when I started looking for jobs.)

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What kind of groups are you looking for?

Resist Meetups

Act Locally

The Nation: Your Guide to the Sprawling New Anti-Trump Resistance Movement


And don't forget to get involved in the 2018 election. That is critical.

eqb said:

QFT.

If you voted for Trump, you voted for hate and racism. You voted for white supremacy. No excuses.

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Yep. I would go so far as to say if you chose to vote 3rd party because "Clinton and Trump are as bad as each other", you allowed hate and racism and white supremacy to win.