Nazi Playbook in Action, Charlottesville, VA

Maggie Maxwell

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There are some who believe since these neo-Nazis thrive on publicity and conflict, the best thing to do would be to not show up at the rallies. Let them march and chant their slogans and ignore them completely.

I'm not sure about this. Refusal to confront might be seen as tacit approval which would embolden them. But it's worth thinking about. My reaction to these Nazis is one of anger and confrontation – when I see them marching and chanting Jews will not replace us, my instinctive reaction is to pick up a large stick and slam them in the face.

But that absolutely is counterproductive. Passive, non-violent actions, even to the point of not fighting back, are tactically far superior. But I'm not really cut out for that sort of thing. So maybe it really is best to stop feeding the troll, as it were. If nobody pays them the attention they crave, they might just lose their energy and purpose.

I'm actually somewhat fond of this technique for countering Nazis - use their marching as fundraising for causes they'd reject. The louder and longer, the more money to the cause. - https://twitter.com/CleveJones1/status/897880400982188032
 

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For those who think Trump is using this to distract from Russia - if he is, he's made a big mistake. The Russia investigation is complex and abstract. Easy to handwave away by his supporters.

But supporting Nazis? Folks at the Bingo Hall know what that means. And a lot of them aren't happy about it. It can't be dismissed as fake news when you hear the words come out of his mouth.

Even this lapdogs in Congress and the Senate are honestly appalled. I think this may be the blow from which his presidency never recovers. Even if he hangs on, he has no political coin with his own party any more to try and push his legislation.
 

Lyv

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Christopher Cantwell needs a little comfort here.

Aw, sad Nazi (pout)

I've seen that rattling around, but this is the first time I've listened. He's been violent, but he's not violent, he avoids fights if he doesn't have his gun...sniffle, sniffle.

From his SPLC entry:

“So what to do?” asked Cantwell. “It’s a terribly unpopular thing to say, but the answer at some point is to kill government agents.”

Undeterred, Cantwell doubled down, writing essays such as “Gabby Giffords Begs for Another Bullet,” lambasting the former Arizona Congresswoman who was shot in the head by a deranged man during a meet-up with constituents and survived to become a gun-control advocate.
 

ElaineA

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There are some who believe since these neo-Nazis thrive on publicity and conflict, the best thing to do would be to not show up at the rallies. Let them march and chant their slogans and ignore them completely.

I'm not sure about this. Refusal to confront might be seen as tacit approval which would embolden them. But it's worth thinking about. My reaction to these Nazis is one of anger and confrontation – when I see them marching and chanting Jews will not replace us, my instinctive reaction is to pick up a large stick and slam them in the face.

But that absolutely is counterproductive. Passive, non-violent actions, even to the point of not fighting back, are tactically far superior. But I'm not really cut out for that sort of thing. So maybe it really is best to stop feeding the troll, as it were. If nobody pays them the attention they crave, they might just lose their energy and purpose.

This is what Germans said, too, even as their Jewish neighbors were being led away. I call BS on passive resistance at this point. Cantwell's blubbering (and Spencer's whining when he got punched) expose these assholes as 2-bit bullies. I'm not advocating physical violence, but a collective turning of the back and saying LALALALALA? Hell no. It's too late for that. Shove 'em back in the damp cellar where their ideas can rot. That means standing in their path in every way possible. Counter-protesting, demanding more from our political reps, and most of all, VOTE. Let it be known at the ballot box that the cancer of nationalism & xenophobic demagoguery isn't acceptable.

Even this lapdogs in Congress and the Senate are honestly appalled. I think this may be the blow from which his presidency never recovers. Even if he hangs on, he has no political coin with his own party any more to try and push his legislation.

I wish I could believe that, but I absolutely do not. I didn't see one Republican politician actually call him out. Saying "we're against the KKK, they're un-American" is the absolute LEAST thing any "leader" could say, it's so f***ing DUH! Just like their response to the pussy-grabbing comment. It's a lot of hand-wringing and pearl-clutching, but there will be no fallout from Congress for this.

The generals, on the other hand...
 

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There are some who believe since these neo-Nazis thrive on publicity and conflict, the best thing to do would be to not show up at the rallies. Let them march and chant their slogans and ignore them completely.

I'm not sure about this. Refusal to confront might be seen as tacit approval which would embolden them. But it's worth thinking about. My reaction to these Nazis is one of anger and confrontation – when I see them marching and chanting Jews will not replace us, my instinctive reaction is to pick up a large stick and slam them in the face.

But that absolutely is counterproductive. Passive, non-violent actions, even to the point of not fighting back, are tactically far superior. But I'm not really cut out for that sort of thing. So maybe it really is best to stop feeding the troll, as it were. If nobody pays them the attention they crave, they might just lose their energy and purpose.

I'm torn on this too. Unless we can have a MLK-style leader who unifies the left in non violent opposition to these rallies, showing up gives the haters the fuel they crave.

An alternative might be for the left to have rallies of their own, on the same day and in the same towns (and in more towns), but in a different park or whatever. And have those be completely non violence and focused on what the left stands for, rather than focusing specifically on the haters and their message (they love the attention and playing the persecution card and claiming the left is trying to "shout them down.") If every time the White Nationalists have a rally, the left has one that draws ten, or a hundred, times more, it should send a message to politicians who aren't already blatant racists etc. themselves.

It also makes it harder for the right-wing haters to make the case that they're the silent majority.

They've really crawled out from under their rocks lately, first with the internet, and now they're taking to the streets. They have an ally in the white house, and it's made them bolder.
 
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MaeZe

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This was a beautiful counter-protest: Torches Replaced By Candlelight As Thousands Gather For Charlottesville Vigil In contrast, the Nazis had a couple hundred.

I don't know why there are a few counter-protesters that insist on physical confrontation. If I had to guess I'd say they've learned that violence gets more media attention. I think it's counterproductive, gives the alt-right more fuel for their victimhood complex.
 

ElaineA

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Seeing some asks to stop circulating the Cantwell crybaby posts because what's happening there is he's dramatically getting their talking points in--about them being so maligned and their rights being trampled upon and the police targeting them blah blah blah. There's a suspicion this was done on purpose. An act for maximum distribution.

Of course, it's up to individuals to decide if they believe that's true, just thought I'd put it in the mix.
 

mccardey

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Seeing some asks to stop circulating the Cantwell crybaby posts because what's happening there is he's dramatically getting their talking points in--about them being so maligned and their rights being trampled upon and the police targeting them blah blah blah. There's a suspicion this was done on purpose. An act for maximum distribution.

Of course, it's up to individuals to decide if they believe that's true, just thought I'd put it in the mix.
Oh, I think their message is already out there if anyone wants to find it. Undoubtedly some idiots will use it to bolster their hurt - but I think more younger people will see what it's like when the going gets tough with these louts.

ETA: Very nice article in Washpo though, about the positive effect of friendship essentially rebuilding Derek Black's outlook. But I suspect that kind of thing would be wasted with this mob.
 
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regdog

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Christopher Cantwell needs a little comfort here.

Okay, so maybe I'm petty but for that video and every one video of Nazis crying they were pepper sprayed in Twitter, I post the link to the you tube clip of Nelson Muntz "Ha Ha"
 
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The thing is, wrongdoers take silence as approval. It's not, but that's how they interpret it. That's why just not laughing at someone's racist/homophobic/misogynist etc. jokes isn't good enough; you have to actually say 'that's not acceptable'. So if people just don't show up to counter Nazi rallies, at best they'll think it's because people approve of their cause even if they don't say so. At worst, they'll think it's because people are too afraid to oppose them openly. If you think things are bad now, how much more extreme do you think their actions will get if they believe they have the opposition cowed?
 

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JJ Litke

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The thing is, wrongdoers take silence as approval. It's not, but that's how they interpret it. That's why just not laughing at someone's racist/homophobic/misogynist etc. jokes isn't good enough; you have to actually say 'that's not acceptable'. So if people just don't show up to counter Nazi rallies, at best they'll think it's because people approve of their cause even if they don't say so. At worst, they'll think it's because people are too afraid to oppose them openly. If you think things are bad now, how much more extreme do you think their actions will get if they believe they have the opposition cowed?

Yes, THIS.

When we say nothing, we're sending messages of silent approval.
 

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It's frustrating because the Nazi's have set themselves up in almost a win-win situation. If we ignore them, they win because they dominate the news and give the appearance that more people approve. If we fight them physically, they use it as a rally cry about how they're maligned and attacked by the "violent left".

I do like the idea of organizing counter-protests some distance away, but it has to stay contained. You have to make sure splinter groups don't go off looking for a fight. You have to make sure that if a confrontation happens, the nazi's come to you, so it's obvious which side is the aggressor.

I have to admit, my blood is boiling and itching to answer violence with violence, but I know that's not the right answer.
 

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It's frustrating because the Nazi's have set themselves up in almost a win-win situation. If we ignore them, they win because they dominate the news and give the appearance that more people approve. If we fight them physically, they use it as a rally cry about how they're maligned and attacked by the "violent left".

I wonder how they'd react to organized silence.

They march down the street and are confronted by a wall of people who stand there, silently, disapprovingly, not rising to their bait nor ignoring their invasion, blocking their way.

(Doubt it would work in reality, though...)
 

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I wonder how they'd react to organized silence.

They march down the street and are confronted by a wall of people who stand there, silently, disapprovingly, not rising to their bait nor ignoring their invasion, blocking their way.

(Doubt it would work in reality, though...)

I think we saw that in Charlotte, actually. I don't know the counter-protesters were silent, but they stood in the way, and the nazi's just plowed their way through and started swinging.
 

MaeZe

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Tina Fey tonight on Weekend Update (funny as hell by the way) suggested we ignore the planned Nazi rallies this weekend.

I thought the counter-protestors that engaged in violent resistance did more harm than good, losing a bit of the moral high ground.

The candlelight vigil at Virginia Tech was beautiful and outshone that disgusting tiki-torch parade by miles.

I'm going with door number three: peaceful, beautiful, outnumber the bastards protest.
 
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ShaunHorton

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This weekend should be interesting though. Apparently there's a white supremacist rally going on in the same space as a Juggalo gathering...

Edit: Apparently, that's not until September. Awww...
 
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ap123

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I wonder how they'd react to organized silence.

They march down the street and are confronted by a wall of people who stand there, silently, disapprovingly, not rising to their bait nor ignoring their invasion, blocking their way.

(Doubt it would work in reality, though...)

I've been thinking about this, something akin to the Guilty Remnants in The Leftovers (minus the all white clothing, though I kind of like the idea of some type of visual impact) on a broader scale. Is there anything more ominous than specific, pointed, silence?