Epic Romance/Women's Fiction MS

Proserpina · Aug 10, 2017

I LOVE to read giant, epic romantic sagas. Seriously, the bigger the better! (for books, please see my post in the sex scenes thread regarding opinions about the other) Preferably historical. I just love to get lost in the world of a book that will last, ya know? So when I sat down to write a book, I wrote what I know and what I like to read. Now I have a massive 187,000 manuscript that I've heard from several sources (sight unseen) is too big to consider for a first time novelist. I am interested in the direct experience of others on this.

I am willing to cut, and also willing to consider splitting it into two books, the latter of which I would prefer as there are several subplots that could be expanded, but I think I need some input first. I am too close and I've been on my own with it too long at this point to see it as objectively as I think I would need to for those things.

I have also started a new project, a YA Fantasy that I hae been carrying around for a few years. I am writing with the intention of meeting the word count expectations and possibly publishing first as a foot in the door.

I cant be alone. Is anyone else here as well? Or been here?

Jan74 · Aug 10, 2017

I loved Outlander which for romance was a large novel, or at least I thought so. The size didn't bother me and the first three novels I enjoyed but after that I stopped reading it. Size doesn't matter

lol....sounds like a good plan to cut it into two. Congrats on finishing a book!!!!!!

Proserpina · Aug 10, 2017

Outlander is my comp, without the fantasy. And the first three were the best! Not that I stopped reading, but those were my faves.

ElaineA · Aug 10, 2017

I wrote my--what I considered tame by comparison--first novel with Outlander in mind. I like a long book, too. Love getting lost in the world. But unfortunately, long books are just not welcome by most readers nowadays (which is weird, considering most people read electronically now, so page-count seems less worthy as a measurement).

I dunno, if you can cut it in two, but have the first one complete on its own, I think you'd probably have better outcomes on querying. Are you planning on going trade publishing? If you're SPing, you have more flexibility, both in length, and in selling a book 1 that doesn't wrap up in a HEA bow. It's a tad risky, because readers can get mad, but a lot of SPers do it. I see a lot of advice to put a clear warning on the Buy page.

Curlz · Aug 10, 2017

Proserpina said:
I LOVE to read giant, epic romantic sagas. Seriously, the bigger the better! (for books, please see my post in the sex scenes thread regarding opinions about the other) Preferably historical. I just love to get lost in the world of a book that will last, ya know? So when I sat down to write a book, I wrote what I know and what I like to read. Now I have a massive 187,000 manuscript that I've heard from several sources (sight unseen) is too big to consider for a first time novelist.

That's only half the wordcount of "Gone With The Wind"

I love epic romantic sagas! But you'll need very strong writing and rich plotting to make such numbers acceptable. Trimming the wordcount on the other hand, may be not as difficult as it appears at first glance :Thumbs:

SheridanEF · Aug 10, 2017

Congratulations on completing it - it sounds great! I know the feeling of being too close to edit your own work. If you already have ideas on how to expand subplots, then perhaps you should take your own advice and consider splitting it into a short series. After all, you know your own work best!

Proserpina · Aug 11, 2017

Curlz said:
Trimming the wordcount on the other hand, may be not as difficult as it appears at first glance

Any advice would be most welcome!

Proserpina · Aug 11, 2017

ElaineA said:
I dunno, if you can cut it in two, but have the first one complete on its own, I think you'd probably have better outcomes on querying. Are you planning on going trade publishing? If you're SPing, you have more flexibility, both in length, and in selling a book 1 that doesn't wrap up in a HEA bow. It's a tad risky, because readers can get mad, but a lot of SPers do it. I see a lot of advice to put a clear warning on the Buy page.

I want to go Trade Publishing, so yes, I am going to have to behave myself and rein in the the wordcount as best I might. It has the happy ending, so no worries on that point. Thanks for the insights!

Proserpina · Aug 11, 2017

SheridanEF said:
Congratulations on completing it - it sounds great! I know the feeling of being too close to edit your own work. If you already have ideas on how to expand subplots, then perhaps you should take your own advice and consider splitting it into a short series. After all, you know your own work best!

Thanks! I am still working up the courage to chop it up. It feels a little like tryna take a dive off a cliff. Everyone who has already done it is fine, but I am still waffling on the edge fretting about taking the plunge.

CEtchison · Aug 11, 2017

My first instinct was to suggest you cut it down, but if it's in a novel with multiple storylines spanning over decades, then I would suggest testing the waters. If it were me, I'd have it beta-read with the specific instruction of noting any places the story slowed or became redundant. If you don't receive any feedback in that regard, then go for it. You can always cut it later.

ROSES by Leila Meacham is nearly 200K words. That was published by Grand Central in 2011 and she's since released six more titles.

Susanna Kearsley's novels range from 130K to 170K words.

Lauren Willig's THE SECRET HISTORY OF THE PINK CARNATION is 128K words.

There is a market for sweeping sagas, but I would imagine the writing would have to be damn near perfect for a debut author. That absolutely does not mean it can't be done. Give it a shot. The worst that will happen is they will tell you no. In which case, you already have a backup plan. If you cut it into two books and sell it that way without attempting to sell it as one, you'll always wonder if it could have been the sweeping saga you intended it to be.

Jan74 · Aug 11, 2017

Gone with the wind didn't have a "happy" ending, he leaves her in the end and their child dies. I don't think you have to have a happy ending for the novel to work.

yoghurtelf · Aug 27, 2017

I'm more than happy to read long, sweeping sagas, as long as I'm not getting bogged down by any part of them. I am stalled right in the middle of book #5 of the Outlander series, although I became stalled many years ago. I need to start from scratch and read the whole thing again, and get through book #5 this time.

I just felt at that point of the story that they were sitting around and waiting for something to happen...which was when I stalled in my reading.

StoryofWoe · Aug 28, 2017

I'm with CEtchison: get it in front of some betas and then cut, cut, cut. If it's still a big, sprawling epic by the time you've tinkered with it to the point of near-perfection, test the querying waters by targeting agents who represent authors who write similar epic romantic sagas. If you get requests, then you'll at least know your opening pages are strong enough to attract an agent's attention, but you won't burn through agents you might want to query if you decide to split it into two books later.

Proserpina · Aug 28, 2017

Thanks so much, Storyofwoe! That leads to my next question - how to find betas? Is local community better or should I be looking online? Is it even safe to send my full manuscript to someone I met online?

yoghurtelf · Aug 28, 2017

You can ask if anyone is interested in being a beta on the Beta forum here at AW. You can also share your first chapter on the Share Your Work forums, to get some beginning feedback, and you may find betas from there.

Marissa D · Aug 28, 2017

Re reducing word count...it's laborious, but go through your manuscript sentence by sentence, and make sure all the words in that sentence need to be there...and that the sentence itself does too. Consider every adjective and adverb, every simile, every description. Look at dialogue and make sure that characters aren't saying the same thing twice, or using three sentences to say what they might be able to in two or even one. It's sort of like going over your story with 400-grit sandpaper, to remove the slubs and bumps that might be making it unwieldy.

MerriTudor · Aug 28, 2017

It's sort of like going over your story with 400-grit sandpaper, to remove the slubs and bumps that might be making it unwieldy.

Great analogy! It has an aura of refining rather than cutting. Cutting makes you feel as though you're taking a hacksaw to your precious work, while refining makes you feel like a master carpenter finishing a fine piece of furniture!

Nice!

Proserpina · Aug 28, 2017

Marissa D said:
Re reducing word count...it's laborious, but go through your manuscript sentence by sentence, and make sure all the words in that sentence need to be there...and that the sentence itself does too. Consider every adjective and adverb, every simile, every description. Look at dialogue and make sure that characters aren't saying the same thing twice, or using three sentences to say what they might be able to in two or even one. It's sort of like going over your story with 400-grit sandpaper, to remove the slubs and bumps that might be making it unwieldy.

Thanks so much for your advice. I am on draft 5 and still finding this sort of stuff to cut! I am hoping to look for beta readers after this go-through. Honestly, I dont feel like I really even knew my own story until draft three. Its a damned good thing I love this thing, or I'd have tossed it long ago. :Hug2:

Also, bonus points for using the word slubs in context, HA!

CEtchison · Aug 28, 2017

Angela James, who is the editorial director of Carina Press, teaches an online class called "Before You Hit Send" which provides a checklist including all the little things Marissa D suggested. You might want to check it out.

https://nicemommy-evileditor.com/

yoghurtelf · Aug 28, 2017

Sometimes you will find that when a beta gets their hands on your book, they will tell you stuff like, "Your story doesn't really start until the 7k mark..." Well, that's my experience.

Yes, I had to cut 7k of words off the front off my novel once. It was all backstory that was, although relevant to the story as whole, didn't need to be included except in little morsels throughout the rest of the book.

Have you written a synopsis up yet? That may be a good place to start. Write out everything that happens in your novel, then share it on forums here, and see if anyone has any thoughts. Or even trying to write a query letter and sharing it here (on the Query SYW forum), may give you insight, because that really makes you think about the heart of your book, your character's goal, etc. I had a lot of trouble writing a query for one of my novels, because people kept asking me tough questions I didn't have answers to. It made me realise I didn't really understand my own book very well, or at least hadn't managed to put it into clear, concise thoughts that I would also be able to share with an agent off the top of my head.

Jurné Ends · Dec 27, 2017

Very late to this but I liked the topic lol. I love epic saga -though sci-fi/fantasy than historical, and love a nice long novel. I know in my editing of a now-discarded novel, I discovered how hard it is to edit your own work so I wish you will doing so.

Epic Romance/Women's Fiction MS

Proserpina

Jan74

Proserpina

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

Curlz

cutsie-pie

SheridanEF

Proserpina

Proserpina

Proserpina

CEtchison

Jan74

yoghurtelf

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

StoryofWoe

Sick and pale with grief.

Proserpina

yoghurtelf

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

Marissa D

Scribe of the girls in the basement

MerriTudor

Proserpina

CEtchison

yoghurtelf

yoghurt elf say wheeee!

Jurné Ends