Trump and the military

mccardey said:

*ahem*

*taps mic*





There are also two dicks.





You're welcome.

Click to expand...

This sums it up.

https://joop.vara.nl/cartoons/verenigde-staten-en-noord-korea

Ambrosia said:

Because the Democratic side of Congress doesn't have the power and the Republican side of Congress are cowards? (Just a guess.) Or are you talking about Jong Un? His people are brainwashed and think he is a god.

Although I don't agree with Trump's escalation of rhetoric, there is a point where the U.S. has to do something with North Korea. The sanctions don't work and North Korea is threatening the U.S. with nuclear weapons. There is not a country within the world who would put up with such a threat, let alone action.

China is the logical one to take action to stop North Korea, but they haven't. Do they have ulterior motives? They have been making their own claims to expand their powers, so who knows? I hope Trump is in close contact with the Chinese government so they know exactly what measures the U.S. plans to take and are on board with those measures. We really don't need WWIII. Given the nukes available, I'm fairly certain none of us would survive it.

Click to expand...

Trump's on vacation, silly. He doesn't have time for dealing with potential world destruction when the links beckon.

I fear that the most contact the Chinese government is getting is through his tweets. That appears to be all the information the Secretary of State is receiving.

Even though it's not needed (because South Korea and the US have plans for this sort of thing in place that don't involved us nuking them "back") I have little doubt that Trump would respond to a nuclear attack with nukes of his own.

This article (which states that the US and South Korea would have no reason to consider using nukes) would be reassuring if we had anyone besides Trump in the White house.

Even if this ends up being self contained, and China doesn't escalate, this would be unnecessary, to say the least, and horrible for other countries in the area. Japan is right in the path of destruction, and they're rather nervous right now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/japan-braces-north-korean-missile-attack/

Of course, China wouldn't just stand by. Even if they're too smart to retaliate against us with nukes of their own (because they presumably don't want to be nuked), they would find ways to make this work to their advantage diplomatically and militarily. It would alienate us from our allies worldwide and make us a pariah.

Not that Trump and isolationist Bannon give a shit. They probably think it would be a great way to make sure America gets to "go it alone" from now on. Bannon's probably drooling with excitement right now.

The Missiles are Flying. Hallelujah..

Why is this man still in office? These next few years may well be the biggest test of our political system since the Civil War.

Lovely. My parents live in Guam half the year--have just flown back there today, in fact.

In a somewhat bitter twist of irony, they are also avid Trump supporters.

And the latest:

President Donald Trump on Thursday ramped up his rhetoric on North Korea again, saying his warning of bringing "fire and fury" on the isolated nation may not have gone far enough.

"If anything, maybe that statement wasn't tough enough," he told reporters at his New Jersey golf club.


When asked what could be tougher than "fire and fury," the president responded: "we'll see." He also did not comment on whether the U.S. is considering a pre-emptive strike on North Korea.


"The people of this country should be very comfortable, and I will tell you this: If North Korea does anything in terms of even thinking about attack, of anybody that we love or we represent or our allies or us, they can be very, very nervous," Trump said. "I'll tell you why, and they should be very nervous. Because things will happen to them like they never thought possible."

Click to expand...

Got in slams against President Obama, of course, and bragging about himself. Not sure what the lie count is, but it's probably up there, as usual (he says everyone is with us (him). That's one).

If you want to understand Kim's actions, look to history and note it is repeating itself.

From last month's NYTs:
U.N. Agency Reports Worst Drought in 16 Years in North Korea

North Korea’s production of staple crops for this year, including rice, corn, potatoes and soybeans, has been severely damaged by prolonged dry spells “threatening food security for a large part of its population,” the agency, the Food and Agriculture Organization, said in a report prepared in collaboration with the European Commission’s Joint Research Center.

Click to expand...

You'd think the mainstream media would have mentioned this as part of, if not the main reason for Kim's current actions. Instead we get stories of Kim's power plays.

Trump is distracting the country from his election collusion, but there is an equally compelling story that Kim is distracting his own country from the country's impending food crisis.

MaeZe said:

If you want to understand Kim's actions, look to history and note it is repeating itself.

From last month's NYTs:
U.N. Agency Reports Worst Drought in 16 Years in North Korea

You'd think the mainstream media would have mentioned this as part of, if not the main reason for Kim's current actions. Instead we get stories of Kim's power plays.

Trump is distracting the country from his election collusion, but there is an equally compelling story that Kim is distracting his own country from the country's impending food crisis.

Click to expand...

In fact, North Korean leaders have a history of upping the saber rattling when they get hungrier than usual over there.

They haven't had the capability to put nuclear warheads on missiles before, however, and in the past we've had relatively experienced, rational presidents who, for all their faults, weren't spoiled six-year-olds in an old man's body.

I'm hoping like hell that Tillerson is going to deescalate this situation. I know he's not playing well in the media, but I understand he was a truly compassionate, strong, and persuasive business leader. Under most circumstances, I'd roll my eyes at that, because being a CEO is not the same as being a diplomat. But honestly, I think we should all be offering up prayers, vibes, positive feelings, whatever, that Tillerson has a deep well of transferrable skills and can get this situation under control.

Roxxsmom said:

...
They haven't had the capability to put nuclear warheads on missiles before, however, and in the past we've had relatively experienced, rational presidents who, for all their faults, weren't spoiled six-year-olds in an old man's body.

Click to expand...

Not dismissing this, I just think it helps to know all the aspects.

There is also the aspect that we wiped out two leaders who did not have nukes, Saddam and Gaddafi which cannot be dismissed.

I'm watching the North Korea thing closely for so many reasons, one being I'm spending the rest of the month in Japan. I can't help being a tad paranoid about what 45 might come up with in that short a time. I wouldn't be so worried if there were responsible, level headed people around him. But he has yes men. He's not Hitler, of course, but Hitler had the same need to surround himself with men who were too spineless to tell him to shove it when it came to military matters.

The Koreans just do not need what is coming at them (north and south) if this thing gets out of hand. And that's without nuclear weapons coming into it.

MaeZe said:

Not dismissing this, I just think it helps to know all the aspects.

There is also the aspect that we wiped out two leaders who did not have nukes, Saddam and Gaddafi which cannot be dismissed.

Click to expand...

That went well.

MaeZe said:

You'd think the mainstream media would have mentioned this as part of, if not the main reason for Kim's current actions. Instead we get stories of Kim's power plays.

Click to expand...

Doesn't make for good sound bytes.

MaeZe said:

Trump is distracting the country from his election collusion, but there is an equally compelling story that Kim is distracting his own country from the country's impending food crisis.

Click to expand...

This does not make me sleep better at night.

Trump isn't going to execute anybody who disagrees with him. Hopefully.

Atlantic12 said:

.....had the same need to surround himself with men who were too spineless to tell him to shove it when it came to military matters.

The Koreans just do not need what is coming at them (north and south) if this thing gets out of hand. And that's without nuclear weapons coming into it.

Click to expand...

LeftyLucy said:

I'm hoping like hell that Tillerson is going to deescalate this situation. I know he's not playing well in the media, but I understand he was a truly compassionate, strong, and persuasive business leader. Under most circumstances, I'd roll my eyes at that, because being a CEO is not the same as being a diplomat. But honestly, I think we should all be offering up prayers, vibes, positive feelings, whatever, that Tillerson has a deep well of transferrable skills and can get this situation under control.

Click to expand...

That would require taking the phone away from Trump so he can't tweet, something that simply is NOT going to happen. Trump is being whipped into a frenzy by the nutters in the WH, mostly Miller & Bannon, I suspect, and if Tillerson is out there trying to Diplomat, he's gonna have a helluva time overcoming Trump's bombast. Personally, I'm counting on China, which doesn't feel that great, but that's how low my trust in our government has gotten.

Bufty said:

Trump isn't going to execute anybody who disagrees with him. Hopefully.

Click to expand...

Yet, but don't think it isn't coming if they see a benefit.

Remind me again, why is no one out in the streets and protesting in the USA? From over here, it looks like you guys are asleep or frozen like a rabbit in the headlights. Most Americans didn't vote for him, he is spewing threats and nonsense, where is the protest? The time of laughing at him is over. And internet posts do nothing.

Where are Obama, Clinton and Sanders? Why are they not out and inspiring and organizing protest?

kneedeepinthedoomed said:

Where are Obama, Clinton and Sanders? Why are they not out and inspiring and organizing protest?

Click to expand...

On the one hand, this is a good question.

On the other hand - there *are* protests, just not with the numbers you might expect. There was an organized "women's strike" a few months ago, and as it happened not a lot of women actually participated. Why? Well, one reason was that for an awful lot of women, participating would mean losing their jobs. Being able to spontaneously protest without genuinely screwing up your life is actually a pretty privileged position to be in here.

I think we've also still got some hope that "the system" will handle it. That, on top of the number of people who actually agree with the guy, probably looks like complacency to the outside world.

America is so big and disconnected in some ways. Protests in one area would mean very little in others.

kneedeepinthedoomed said:

Remind me again, why is no one out in the streets and protesting in the USA? From over here, it looks like you guys are asleep or frozen like a rabbit in the headlights. Most Americans didn't vote for him, he is spewing threats and nonsense, where is the protest? The time of laughing at him is over. And internet posts do nothing.

Click to expand...

There are protests, almost every day, but America is big. Like really big. Most of the country can't just pop up to DC for a weekend to march on the capital.

kneedeepinthedoomed said:

Where are Obama, Clinton and Sanders? Why are they not out and inspiring and organizing protest?

Click to expand...

They're still trying to be the adults in the conversation, playing by the rules. Good statesmen don't lead an open rebellion against the current elected government. I'm not sure if it's the right choice, given the newest developments, but prior to all this saber-rattling, letting the legal system work was their best move.

Now... we're getting into serious danger territory and it might be time to throw out the rulebook.

kneedeepinthedoomed said:

Remind me again, why is no one out in the streets and protesting in the USA? From over here, it looks like you guys are asleep or frozen like a rabbit in the headlights. Most Americans didn't vote for him, he is spewing threats and nonsense, where is the protest? The time of laughing at him is over. And internet posts do nothing.

Where are Obama, Clinton and Sanders? Why are they not out and inspiring and organizing protest?

Click to expand...

protests aren't going to remove a president. That might be the case in other countries but not in one with a Constitution. If he's going to be removed it will be because of the Mueller team finding and bringing charges against him(and/or bringing his crimes to the senate/house.) For as much as we complain about wanting someone removed we don't want to cross the line of chaos and destroying the rule of laws that we have established in this country. Cross that line and you may never see the country recover.

That's exactly what some people inside the very same administration want.

I was referring to the very recent Korea escalation, not to removing the president or women's rights marches. I would expect anti-war protests.

Europe is almost as big as the US, physically, and has more inhabitants. Yet it's not unheard of to coordinate demonstrations in several EU capitals. One could probably stage protests in East Coast cities, for example, for starters. Is there no "peace movement" left at all?

We're not "at war," though, and marching for "peace" isn't going to send any message that isn't already being heard loud and clear. Congress is alarmed, diplomats are alarmed, everyone but Trump acolytes and Blackwater is alarmed.

Marching in the street is not going to stop Trump from pushing the button if he wants to. Only the generals can do that, if they dare.

The NK situation has escalated very quickly. And I'm not sure that protesting against Trump directly is effective. Do you think he's going to back down because of some "bad hombres" (in his view) outside the White House gates? It might drive him further down the path he's on just out of stubbornness.

What I think would be much more effective is firing up those phones again and calling Congress/Senate members. These are the only people likely to be swayed by their constituents to exert some sort of control.

kneedeepinthedoomed said:

I was referring to the very recent Korea escalation, not to removing the president or women's rights marches. I would expect anti-war protests.

Click to expand...

The reason we are not seeing large scale protests is that most Americans believe (correctly, imo) there is not going to be any war.

The bellicose rhetoric is unhelpful and disturbing, but it seems highly unlikely it will actually lead to armed conflict, and certainly not on any significant scale.

rugcat said:

The reason we are not seeing large scale protests is that most Americans believe (correctly, imo) there is not going to be any war.

The bellicose rhetoric is unhelpful and disturbing, but it seems highly unlikely it will actually lead to armed conflict, and certainly not on any significant scale.

Click to expand...

I pray you're right. I'm terrified right now.

I personally hold the idea of calling your representatives to be naive. From European experience, politicians become impressed only when a million people are marching. Because seeing the people on the streets in significant numbers scares them. But it may be a cultural difference.

And rugcat, may you be right in your hope, because otherwise your post is gonna look very naive. In this case, I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong. I'd like America to hold its shit together enough to not stumble into another war. I'd like to sleep well at night.