Irish mythology based YA and its troubles

tabathabell

Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida, USA
Website
www.tabathabell.com
I wouldn't describe Boston as expansive, personally; it's a fairly small city, imo -- my perspective may be skewed, but it's <1 million people I believe.

Expansive city to blend in and escape would be NY, maybe Chicago, if you ask me. Maybe LA but it's so sprawly you don't get the really concentrated populous in a contained area.

I wanted to avoid LA and NY because those are the two cities that I believe have the most hits for setting when it comes to YA novels. I wanted somewhere that didn't have a lot of books set there, plus with its Irish history, that was why I chose it. Do you by chance have any idea about other cities on the East Coast that have more of an Irish historical presence?
 

autumnleaf

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
215
Location
small rainy island
Hey, Galway is actually my home town! It's true that up to the 1990s it was pretty homogeneous, but post "Celtic Tiger" it's fairly diverse. It's a University town with students and staff from all over the world. There are many immigrants as well; my next-door neighbors are Indian doctors, my sister-in-law is Polish, a good proportion of taxi drivers are Nigerian. My nieces and nephews have non-white school friends. It may be "80% white Irish" (according to wikipedia), but that's still 20% who aren't. OK, some of those would be white immigrants from the UK or Eastern Europe, but there's still a lot of others in the mix.

You should look up Ruth Negga, Irish-Ethiopian actress who grew up in Limerick. Or Liz Bonnin, Irish-Trinidadian TV presenter. Our current Taoiseach (prime minister), Leo Varadkar, had an Indian dad.
 

tabathabell

Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida, USA
Website
www.tabathabell.com
Hey, Galway is actually my home town! It's true that up to the 1990s it was pretty homogeneous, but post "Celtic Tiger" it's fairly diverse. It's a University town with students and staff from all over the world. There are many immigrants as well; my next-door neighbors are Indian doctors, my sister-in-law is Polish, a good proportion of taxi drivers are Nigerian. My nieces and nephews have non-white school friends. It may be "80% white Irish" (according to wikipedia), but that's still 20% who aren't. OK, some of those would be white immigrants from the UK or Eastern Europe, but there's still a lot of others in the mix.

You should look up Ruth Negga, Irish-Ethiopian actress who grew up in Limerick. Or Liz Bonnin, Irish-Trinidadian TV presenter. Our current Taoiseach (prime minister), Leo Varadkar, had an Indian dad.

You're a life saver for posting this. Would you by chance mind if I PM'd you with questions regarding this? Part of my story will take place in Galway and that general area of the country.
 

tabathabell

Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida, USA
Website
www.tabathabell.com
Regarding ban sídhe there's a book by Patricia Lysaght that you might want to read. The Banshee: Irish Supernatural Death Messenger.

Lysaght is a Celticist and folklorist, current at UCD.

She's a wonderful scholar.

Thank you, my dear. I wish I had the money to purchase it. When I do, I probably will.

I sent you a PM with a question within it if you have time to answer it. If not, it's totally okay. I may have a question regarding the banshees for you since you seem to have read the book. Perhaps you can help me work through that as well if you're okay with it. :)
 

PyriteFool

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
370
Reaction score
75
I wanted to avoid LA and NY because those are the two cities that I believe have the most hits for setting when it comes to YA novels. I wanted somewhere that didn't have a lot of books set there, plus with its Irish history, that was why I chose it. Do you by chance have any idea about other cities on the East Coast that have more of an Irish historical presence?

I think Boston is totally fine for your purposes. The city itself may not be as large as NY/LA, but it is big in an absolute sense, and you always have the "greater Boston area" like Somerville, Cambridge, Chelsea, etc. A quick google search has yielded that the cities with the most Irish ancestry on the East Coast are Pittsburgh PA, Boston, Philadelphia, Buffalo NY, Baltimore, and Raleigh. None of those are NYC massive, so I wouldn't worry about that. If Boston is the vibe you want, go for it. And it is plenty diverse to boot.
 

tabathabell

Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida, USA
Website
www.tabathabell.com
Fantastic. :)

Thank you for your input as well, PyriteFool. I'm just going through an issue now of how to include POC in my story since only the first like six or seven chapters of a 30 chapter MS take place in Boston. The rest of it takes place in Ireland and in a fantasy realm. So I'm attempting to figure out what would be plausible inclusion.
 

AW Admin

Administrator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
18,772
Reaction score
6,286
Thank you, my dear. I wish I had the money to purchase it. When I do, I probably will.

I sent you a PM with a question within it if you have time to answer it. If not, it's totally okay. I may have a question regarding the banshees for you since you seem to have read the book. Perhaps you can help me work through that as well if you're okay with it. :)

Interlibrary loan? Here's a list of libraries that have either of the two editions:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/bans...essenger/oclc/154289822&referer=brief_results

https://www.worldcat.org/title/banshee-the-irish-death-messenger/oclc/37434487&referer=brief_results

You can enter a zip code to find one in your area, or ask your local library to inter-library loan it.
 

tabathabell

Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida, USA
Website
www.tabathabell.com
Interlibrary loan? Here's a list of libraries that have either of the two editions:

https://www.worldcat.org/title/bans...essenger/oclc/154289822&referer=brief_results

https://www.worldcat.org/title/banshee-the-irish-death-messenger/oclc/37434487&referer=brief_results

You can enter a zip code to find one in your area, or ask your local library to inter-library loan it.

The nearest library that has a copy of it is at a University library almost 50 miles away from where I live. -cries-

so yeah, I'd have to inter-library loan it. I did read a few articles by that author earlier today. Love the rec.
 
Last edited:

PyriteFool

Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 11, 2016
Messages
370
Reaction score
75
Fantastic. :)

Thank you for your input as well, PyriteFool. I'm just going through an issue now of how to include POC in my story since only the first like six or seven chapters of a 30 chapter MS take place in Boston. The rest of it takes place in Ireland and in a fantasy realm. So I'm attempting to figure out what would be plausible inclusion.

I personally see zero issue with POC peeps in Boston. Or Ireland. Like ever, no matter the time period. They exist, always have always will. If the issue is believability, I truly don't think it is a problem any reasonable (aka not racist) person will have.

Now if the issue is accurate representation and whether white authors should write not white MCs, yeah that's complicated. As stated earlier in the thread there's no easy answer nor universally accepted one. Now I'm white and the conclusion I'm currently working under is don't write a story about a marginalized person if the story is about their marginalization and you don't identify with said group. That truly feels like stealing someone else's narrative for your own profit. But if the story isn't about their marginalization, I think it can be done, so long as it's sensitive and properly researched and empathetic.

But almost never will setting be an issue. The idea that white only countries, cities, etc. exist absent horrible racist meddling is way overstated to just plain made up.
 
Last edited:

tabathabell

Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida, USA
Website
www.tabathabell.com
I think I figured out the issue and I'm going forth with it. A lot of it wasn't the fact that I was scared or confused, it was more along the lines of my own fear that I wasn't good enough to write it. The character in question was mixed POC to begin with but I changed her out of insecurity. So I have decided to change her back and include her anyway due to many helpful voices on this forum, so it's been figured out! Thank you for your input once more.
 

Cekrit

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
150
Reaction score
16
Location
MA
Website
www.amazon.com
I live an hour south of Boston and have spent a lot of time in the city. The city is mainly divided by neighborhoods of varying cultures and ethnicity. For instance, a huge bulk of Boston is China town, so it wouldnt be a huge stretch in your story to add some Asian characters, include their culture, and maybe even some of their lore of your characters need help with the spirits.

There are entire blocks of stickly people of color, African americans, dominicans, hispanic people.

And yes, there are a lot of white people but they are mostly there for business, work, and travel and the majority of them commute.

The outskirts of Boston is mostly low income and fairly slummy. I mean places like Quincy and Dorchester. They are within a short drive from boston and are populated by mostly people of color.

I also want to note if the theme of your book that you are passionate about is focused around one culture, dont feel ashamed for not including others. You dont want it to seem forced just to be politically correct or gain ethnic brownie points ya know?

However, there will be plenty of black people, asians, hispanics, and white people living in boston both scattered and focused in various neighborhoods.

You could take the time to focus on the spiritual sides of the asian and african cultures as well.
 
Last edited:

AW Admin

Administrator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 19, 2008
Messages
18,772
Reaction score
6,286
The outskirts of Boston is mostly low income and fairly slummy. I mean places like Quincy and Dorchester. They are within a short drive from boston and are populated by mostly people of color.

I disagree with this description; Quincy and Dorchester are both working class neighborhoods, but there are good and bad areas in both of them. Dorchester is definitely a low income area; and it's where a lot of immigrants settle when they first arrive. It's very much a striated neighborhood; you can tell that just from the businesses (i.e. Vietnamese grocery stores vs Polish restaurants). You can still see some of the old storefronts from the 1960s that have faded Yiddish signs, back when part of Dorchester was a Jewish neighborhood.

I know Quincy best, but if you research both you'll see what I mean. Use Google street view, for instance. There's even a chance to hear second generation Irish speakers, in and around The Neck (Houghs Neck).

There are more people identifying as Irish in Quincy than any other city in the U.S. according to the 2002 census, in this Wikipedia summary.
 

tabathabell

Registered
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Florida, USA
Website
www.tabathabell.com
It's really interesting to see two different sides of an opinion on one thing.

Speaking of those two areas, if it was an immigrant family coming to Boston, would that possibly be an area that they would move to if they were trying to keep low?