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Harlequin

Eat books, not brains!
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given that self pub books outnumber traditional ones, surely the noise you're getting lost in is your own selves, which isn't going to go away by having a self pub specific site?

separating out self pub stuff will surely just relegate it to a back corner somewhere, setting it apart from traditional books even more in the eyes of viewers.
 

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Damoc1970


I applaud your desire to do something positive, but the thing is, you're following a path that's well-trodden, and mostly, by self-published authors.

A display site is a site where authors post either their manuscript (or sections of their ms.) in hopes of attracting a publisher, or they link to their self-published book.

Here's a piece about one kind of display site, written by Victoria Strauss of Writer Beware.

If you look at the listings in the Bewares area of this site via Google's Advanced Search you'll see lots of listings for [Display site].

Those are all sites that have had the same idea as you.

It doesn't work. It's not how people buy books, or find books to read or buy.

The way readers find books to buy is that they look for books by authors they know (first option, usually), they look for book reviews or book lists by trusted curators.

This is why it's really helpful to have readers read and post reviews about books, not only on review sites and blogs, but on sites like Goodreads, Library Thing, and yes, Amazon.

Also, as a general note about terminology, the phrase "traditional publishing" isn't terribly useful, because it means different things to different people.

Trade publishing refers to publishing books wherein the author submits to an agent or publisher; the author is paid an advance, and the book is edited, designed, produced and sold by the publishers. Once the book sells enough to have earned back the advance, the author is paid royalties.

Vanity publishing refers to books wherein the author pays the publisher to produce the book; typically this does not result in quality production values, has a high cover price, and there is limited (almost non existent) distribution. It is unlikely that the book will be available on the shelves of bookstores or libraries.

There are also vanity publishers masquerading as trade publishers; they tend to want money from the author, and often demand that the author buy his or her own books.
 
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Hbooks

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Shrug. As a reader, I ALWAYS check reviews before I buy something. If I'm going to shell $5-13 out for something, I want to make sure it's of reasonable quality. If the reviews all say it's riddled with grammatical errors, or the plotting was ridiculous, that helps me know it's not the book for me. I don't need a book to have LOTS of reviews, but I won't buy it if I know nothing.
 

Damoc1970

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Yes, you've made that clear. It's understood.

The question that is being repeatedly asked of you is: what's in it for readers? Why should a reader go to your site? Without answering that question, the site cannot succeed.

A reader's goal isn't to give authors a chance. The goal is to find a good book to read.

What is it about your model that will accomplish this more effectively than what is already available? I think perhaps you believe that readers will be exposed to a wider variety by going outside of the mainstream of the most popular books, and that this variety will be a rewarding source of creativity that has been otherwise overlooked by the trade publishing system.

The trouble is, while there are some self-published gems that deserve more attention, there are many self-published books that need better editing, rewriting, or even just to be a learning experience for an improving author. How are visitors to your site to tell the difference?

It's in the writers' interests to help readers tell the difference, because if readers don't enjoy the first book they try they won't come back. That's why so many responses here express feeling perplexed by your antipathy towards ratings.

The acronym JADS (which I've known as YADS--Yet Another Display Site) exists because, alas, the idea is not new. It has been tried, and it has failed, many times before. I'm sorry. I know that must feel disappointing to hear.

Will certainly have a look as you have said, a wise friend once said to me "experience is what you get just after the point when you need it most".
 

Damoc1970

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There are also vanity publishers masquerading as trade publishers; they tend to want money from the author, and often demand that the author buy his or her own books.[/QUOTE]

In light of the comments and shared experiences, will certainly have to rethink, but I wont give up so easily. I'm not trying to dismiss people that have worked hard to accomplish good review and ratings obviously because of good hard work. There must w
be some way that we can give a leg up to that collective that may have good work that is just unseen.
 

Damoc1970

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Unfortunately the day job is taking me away for a few days. I appreciate the candid and honest feedback. Plenty of food for thought. Thanks all. Once I rethink I will post back and hopefully with a more robust strategy.
 

Damoc1970

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Damoc1970


I applaud your desire to do something positive, but the thing is, you're following a path that's well-trodden, and mostly, by self-published authors.

A display site is a site where authors post either their manuscript (or sections of their ms.) in hopes of attracting a publisher, or they link to their self-published book.

Here's a piece about one kind of display site, written by Victoria Strauss of Writer Beware.

If you look at the listings in the Bewares area of this site via Google's Advanced Search you'll see lots of listings for [Display site].

Those are all sites that have had the same idea as you.

It doesn't work. It's not how people buy books, or find books to read or buy.

The way readers find books to buy is that they look for books by authors they know (first option, usually), they look for book reviews or book lists by trusted curators.

This is why it's really helpful to have readers read and post reviews about books, not only on review sites and blogs, but on sites like Goodreads, Library Thing, and yes, Amazon.

Also, as a general note about terminology, the phrase "traditional publishing" isn't terribly useful, because it means different things to different people.

Trade publishing refers to publishing books wherein the author submits to an agent or publisher; the author is paid an advance, and the book is edited, designed, produced and sold by the publishers. Once the book sells enough to have earned back the advance, the author is paid royalties.

Vanity publishing refers to books wherein the author pays the publisher to produce the book; typically this does not result in quality production values, has a high cover price, and there is limited (almost non existent) distribution. It is unlikely that the book will be available on the shelves of bookstores or libraries.

There are also vanity publishers masquerading as trade publishers; they tend to want money from the author, and often demand that the author buy his or her own books.

Yes, Vanity publishers I have certainly become more familiar with.....
 

Emily Winslow

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Will certainly have a look as you have said, a wise friend once said to me "experience is what you get just after the point when you need it most".

The graciousness of your responses is admirable and appreciated. Good luck, Damian. And do look around AW! There's lots to discuss about many aspects of writing and publishing. Welcome :)
 
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