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Define Head Hopping and POV

Cyia

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I'm afraid I don't follow what you are trying to say, Cyia. Maybe your use of the word 'narrator' is confusing me.

Maybe.

Head-hopping is when the voice is inconsistent. One moment you're in Bob's head, hearing things he hears and seeing things he sees, and the narration (or writing) is in his "voice." The next moment, you're in Jane's head without warning and the voice totally changes. The POV (maybe reference point is a better way to say it) is suddenly anchored in another part of the room, giving the reader internal whiplash from the sudden move.

That's head-hopping.

If you've got an Omni narrator, or one recounting a story to which they're privy to the other characters' thoughts and motivations, both Bob's and Jane's perspectives can be shared without slipping from one voice to another. It's all in the voice of whomever's telling the story.

Look at The Book Thief. Death tells the story. We don't suddenly pop into another character's way of speaking, even though we do get to see their perspective. The phrasing and word choice is consistent with the odd speech pattern attributed to "Death." Any shift in that which would make the narrative read more like another character's dialog would be jarring.

(It makes sense in my head, just ignore me if this getting more confusing.)
 

Harlequin

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Omni does have a voice, and a relationship to the characters, but I believe the issue people are taking exception to is that the 90 yr old lady in your example cannot see into the heads of the children she's referencing. In that sense, she would be simply a 3rd person pov; the camera is firmly over her shoulder, and her perspective is limited to what she sees and hears.

If she wrote a book where she imagined the thoughts and feelings of those children, based on her experience, that would be omni I think.
 

Bufty

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I don't see, Cyia, why you're trying to connect voice consistency and head-hopping.

To me, head-hopping means the unannounced/sudden/jarring change of POV character - nothing to do with consistency of voice.
 

Roxxsmom

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I understand head hopping is a no no, but some of the best writers do it. What I've learned is this, if you head hop as long as the reader clearly knows what head your in it's ok. Now since I'm new I don't head hop, but I've read many books that bounce b/w characters and it's fine. Some of my favorite authors do it and do it well.

Sometimes very popular writers can get away with things that most can't. I've read short stories where head hopping was used intentionally, to create a particular effect. In those cases, the sense of disorientation or incongruity was part of the package, so to speak. This short story (often assigned reading in college English classes) is an example of one where the narrative viewpoint shifts every paragraph, though scene breaks are included. The result is very surreal.

There are also techniques for "handing off" a narrative viewpoint within a scene without being ambiguous, though they're less common than using scene breaks.

A lot of the time, though, people mis-label omniscient as head hopping. When an external narrator is in control of the shifts between different character's thoughts and is relating them in their own (or a neutral) voice, not the characters', it won't be confusing. Well-executed omnicient pov isn't the same thing as head hopping.
 
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DancingMaenid

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I'm curious if some of the examples of head-hopping that people say they see in published books, particularly examples of it done well, are actually cases of a POV character interpreting another character's thoughts or projecting onto them. I think the difference is important but not always immediately obvious. For example, let's say you have a passage like this:

A woman sat next to him at the bar. She kept an empty stool between them, but when she saw Bob watching her, she gave him a shy smile. She waited for him to make the first move.

This could be dipping into the woman's POV, but it could also be Bob assuming that she's flirting with him and wants him to make a move. Maybe it's actually an important part of Bob's character that he thinks like this. Similarly, you could have a character who likes to sit in the bus and come up with elaborate fantasies about what the other passengers are thinking.

Head-hopping stands out because it's a blatant shift and it's clear we're no longer observing the character through the POV character's eyes. This would be head-hopping, if the story wasn't in omniscient POV:

A woman sat down next to Bob at the bar and gave him a shy smile. Finally, a single woman who looked interested in him. Bob would try to order her a drink when the bartender came around.

The woman, Jane, was wondering if she should move. She didn't like the look of the guy next to her.


In this scenario, Jane clearly has her own thoughts that aren't just Bob's assumptions. There's also information about her (her name) that Bob wouldn't know. So it's definitely head-hopping if the story is supposed to be in close third.
 

MisterFrancis

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When I change character POV, I denote the change with a # sign at the very beginning of the change OR start a new chapter.

If you use a scene break ("a # sign"), but then don't actually change the scene, but stay in the same scene with a different POV, that to me would count as bad head hopping. Changing POV within a scene (even using fake scene breaks to do so) can work well, but it's like a special effect. It's often used only at the climax, when all the POV characters are together at last and it's hitting the fan. But used casually, I would find it annoying.
 

Jan74

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Nora Roberts head-hops. Can't say I cared for it in the one book of hers that I read...

yes! I'm reading one of her trilogies and she does head hop.
Alice Hoffman in the probable future head hops. She's clearly in Jenny's pov yet within one paragraph we learn things about Will and Avery that Jenny shouldn't know.
I see alot of really great authors that I enjoy reading breaking all sorts of "rules". This is when a writer must decide what feels good for their story. I've read so many great books that tell and tell alot, but it doesn't ruin the story. I think head hopping is jarring only when the reader has no idea whose head they are in. But I'm new and I'm reading as much as I can and trying to learn as much as I can. I think rules are meant to be bent.
 

blacbird

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I think rules are meant to be bent.

Rules are meant to be known and followed, unless you have a good reason for not doing so. The "rules", better known as "principles", of written expression and communication were not imposed arbitrarily by some governance agency, but have evolved over centuries to facilitate the interaction of writer and reader. The use of point-of-view discipline in narrative fiction is one of those principles. Handled well by the writer, it greatly aids the reading experience. "Bend" it only when you understand how it works, and have a good specific reason for doing it differently.

caw

caw
 

Layla Nahar

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(^not sure if I follow that...)


I think it creates a problem to call these things 'rules'. If you read, and you think about writing, the logic of it will become clear.
 

M.C.Statz

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...eh, it's a bit like saying red lights are meant to be run because cops are allowed to do it.

If red lights are writing principles, aren't authors the po-po?
 

Roxxsmom

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I'm curious if some of the examples of head-hopping that people say they see in published books, particularly examples of it done well, are actually cases of a POV character interpreting another character's thoughts or projecting onto them. I think the difference is important but not always immediately obvious. For example, let's say you have a passage like this:

A woman sat next to him at the bar. She kept an empty stool between them, but when she saw Bob watching her, she gave him a shy smile. She waited for him to make the first move.

This could be dipping into the woman's POV, but it could also be Bob assuming that she's flirting with him and wants him to make a move. Maybe it's actually an important part of Bob's character that he thinks like this. Similarly, you could have a character who likes to sit in the bus and come up with elaborate fantasies about what the other passengers are thinking.

Head-hopping stands out because it's a blatant shift and it's clear we're no longer observing the character through the POV character's eyes. This would be head-hopping, if the story wasn't in omniscient POV:

A woman sat down next to Bob at the bar and gave him a shy smile. Finally, a single woman who looked interested in him. Bob would try to order her a drink when the bartender came around.

The woman, Jane, was wondering if she should move. She didn't like the look of the guy next to her.


In this scenario, Jane clearly has her own thoughts that aren't just Bob's assumptions. There's also information about her (her name) that Bob wouldn't know. So it's definitely head-hopping if the story is supposed to be in close third.

This is a good point too. Writers who talk about "deep pov" techniques mention the importance of using language in a way that makes it clear when a pov character is guessing at, or attributing thoughts or motivations to another. People are less likely to misinterpret it as head hopping when it's done in first person. Ironically, writing in a more distant third person, whether it's a distant limited third or omniscient third, wouldn't have this issue, because the use of filters like "guessed" or "knew" or whatever makes it clear when a pov (or character of focus in omniscient) "knows" something.

I entered the room. "Oh, Hi," Tom said without looking up. He was angry, really angry this time.

Sometimes the guideline to write limited third just like first with different pronouns can lead to problems, but adding filters isn't necessarily the answer either. Maybe changing it to, Oh God, he was angry, really angry, or something like that would help in limited third. But even when it's done very carefully, some people might miss the fact that it's the pov character attributing a motivation to another character (and this can be correct or incorrect).

When I change character POV, I denote the change with a # sign at the very beginning of the change OR start a new chapter.

If you use a scene break ("a # sign"), but then don't actually change the scene, but stay in the same scene with a different POV, that to me would count as bad head hopping.

Maybe it would to you, but I've never run across another writer who describes it this way. The soft scene break (often denoted by a simple line break in published novels) is a perfectly legitimate technique, used in many trade published novels, and it's fine to change povs without changing settings if doing so advances the story. I've never had anyone tell me it was wrong or confusing in workshop groups. Maybe it could be confusing if the writer doesn't quickly ground the reader in the location and character, or if the end of the last scene felt like it was leading to a shift in location and not just perspective, and the reader expects the scene to commence in a new location.

I agree that doing this repeatedly within the same setting, staying with each pov character for just a few lines, can be almost as annoying as head hopping, but that would be an extreme example. And even that could have utility, as the story I linked up thread illustrates.
 
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Laiceps

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I was actually thinking about this the other day. I just finished a book by Megan Whalen Turner that seemed to head hop - a lot. I was constantly having to re-read things. I can post one of the passages that had me particularly confused, if that's allowed or helpful. Maybe I was just reading it wrong, but I couldn't understand why she did it.
 

Jan74

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...eh, it's a bit like saying red lights are meant to be run because cops are allowed to do it.

No it's more like the yellow caution light, some people speed up to get through the light before it turns red and others slow down so they can stop for the red light.

Writing techniques change over time. How someone wrote in 1864, 1964 and today is very different in style and tone.

Roxxsmom-thank you for the links, it does appear that the novel is 3rd limited, but I'm not an expert so maybe its actually omni. I've been wrong on more than one occasion :)
 

Jan74

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Rules are meant to be known and followed, unless you have a good reason for not doing so. The "rules", better known as "principles", of written expression and communication were not imposed arbitrarily by some governance agency, but have evolved over centuries to facilitate the interaction of writer and reader. The use of point-of-view discipline in narrative fiction is one of those principles. Handled well by the writer, it greatly aids the reading experience. "Bend" it only when you understand how it works, and have a good specific reason for doing it differently.

caw

caw

I disagree, and I know I'm a nobody, and I'm unpublished, and I have zero legs to stand on because I come from a place of nothing, but we aren't talking about life saving, someone will die if I break this rule stuff. If I head hop nobody gets hurt. Sure there are grammar rules and spelling rules etc, but when it comes to pov and style, show don't tell etc, these are bendable rules. Using their, they're and there correctly are rules that must be adhered to.

When I read Alice Hoffman for the first time I was blown away, she was so different from anything I'd ever read before. Different is good.

I do agree with bend it when you understand it, and I do not have that talent to be bending the pov, so I don't.
 

Roxxsmom

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No it's more like the yellow caution light, some people speed up to get through the light before it turns red and others slow down so they can stop for the red light.

And sometimes whether you decide to stop or race through the light will depend on circumstances too.

Writing techniques change over time. How someone wrote in 1864, 1964 and today is very different in style and tone.

Very true.

Roxxsmom-thank you for the links, it does appear that the novel is 3rd limited, but I'm not an expert so maybe its actually omni. I've been wrong on more than one occasion :)

You're not the first person I've encountered in writing forums who says that Nora Roberts head hops all over the place, so there may well be something to it. I've never read her stuff, so I couldn't say if she's really writing in omniscient third, but I haven't heard the same allegation levied against many of the authors who I do know write in omniscient, so she may be an example of a successful writer who has managed to make an unusual technique part of her brand or something.

As others have said, there really aren't any "rules" in writing, aside from some of the basic ones about punctuation and grammar, and the overarching injunction not to bore your reader or to confuse them in a bad (unintended and non entertaining) way. There are guidelines, and sometimes there are good reasons for violating them.

I don't agree with people who insist that novice writers (however that is defined) should stick with very simple, short, one pov in limited third until they have a novel or three under their belt. Sometimes the story that's burning to come out requires a more challenging approach, even one that's out of the ordinary. It's not like the fate of the world depends on a budding fiction writer's ability to get pov shifts right in their first draft. And writers will have an easier time replicating techniques that are common in the books that they read most.

However, head hopping can indeed be one of the more annoying newbie mistakes to read, so it's a good idea to have a pretty firm theoretical grasp of narrative viewpoint, and to read novels that use different approaches to good (and sometimes not-so-good) effect so you know what to aspire to, and what to avoid.
 

LJD

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If you use a scene break ("a # sign"), but then don't actually change the scene, but stay in the same scene with a different POV, that to me would count as bad head hopping. Changing POV within a scene (even using fake scene breaks to do so) can work well, but it's like a special effect. It's often used only at the climax, when all the POV characters are together at last and it's hitting the fan. But used casually, I would find it annoying.

??

I have never heard of anyone else describe this as bad head hopping. Sure, like anything, it could be overused, but I see it regularly in the books I read, and I do it myself as a writer.

Maybe it would to you, but I've never run across another writer who describes it this way. The soft scene break (often denoted by a simple line break in published novels) is a perfectly legitimate technique, used in many trade published novels, and it's fine to change povs without changing settings if doing so advances the story. I've never had anyone tell me it was wrong or confusing in workshop groups. Maybe it could be confusing if the writer doesn't quickly ground the reader in the location and character, or if the end of the last scene felt like it was leading to a shift in location and not just perspective, and the reader expects the scene to commence in a new location.

I agree that doing this repeatedly within the same setting, staying with each pov character for just a few lines, can be almost as annoying as head hopping, but that would be an extreme example. And even that could have utility, as the story I linked up thread illustrates.

Yep.
 

Harlequin

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Mulitple pov isn't necessarily advanced. It is also a technique used by writers who struggle with transitions but not with characterisation (in my limited experience). Sanderson did this a lot with his earlier novels.

Certainly that's one of the main reasons I adopted it; the plot can advance sans transitions by jumping tracks.
 

KnavesAndKnots

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Head hopping is a real pet peeve of mine in amateur fiction (as discussed, OP, I don't think that's what you've done).

And yet I love Virginia Woolf's Mrs Dalloway, which is a head hopping bonanza. Thing is, head hopping is kind of what that whole novel is *about*. Nobody comprehends and wields the subtleties of POV like Woolf did. IMO.
 

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I have yet to run across one who does.

There is a particular Stephen King book where I thought he did this well, but for the life of me I cannot remember which one. But it sticks in my mind because I read the scene and kept on reading, really enjoying the book, and a couple pages later my writers' mind realized - hey, wait. He just jumped POV for that one moment. So I went back and re-read it and kind of took it apart to try to understand how it had happened so seamlessly.

And all of this would be more meaningful if I could remember which scene it was, in which book, but alas - apparently those brains cells have been reallocated to grocery lists.
 

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It's one of those things that you can do *if it works*. The trouble is that writers, particularly inexperienced ones, are may think it's working when it isn't.

It's sort of like "can you scale the outside of the Empire State Building with nothing but simple climbing equipment?" There are a few people in the world who can. They have audiences who stand around going "Wow, that is amazing!" That doesn't mean that the audience members can perform the same feat without becoming sidewalk salami.

Also, if you're going to do it, know exactly when and why you're doing it. Most head-hopping is inadvertent and therefore less likely to be pulled off successfully.
 

LeftyLucy

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Okay, so. This discussion has me thinking of a chapter in my WIP where I'm doing something very specific with the narrative voice. It's the first time we're meeting these characters and this place, and the first few paragraphs are 3rd p omni. We see our setting, we meet a couple characters and hear them say a few lines to each other, then we hear a bit of other characters commenting on the first two.

Then, after this, it eases into 3rd p limited and stays strictly 3rd p limited for the rest of the story.

I think it works, but I have this whole section circled in marker on my print copy, because I know the sliding POV is a little risky. Thoughts?

Edited: Laughing because I used the phrase "I think it works" at the exact same time Twick was writing about how writers may think something works when it doesn't. And isn't that the rub? We're the worst at knowing whether or not our own work is actually that good.
 
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