Is it possible for the protagonist to be too friendly with the antagonist?

Shirokitty

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I'm wondering if it's possible for the protagonist to get along too well with the antagonist. The reason I ask is that Shiani is actually on pretty good terms with my antagonist, Lerissa.

The big thing that pits them against each other is that Lerissa wants to kill the human race and Shiani wants to prevent that. I'd say preventing mass genocide is a pretty good reason to try and stop someone, but Shiani loves Lerissa and Lerissa loves her. Lerissa even saves her from execution at one point and then later on sacrifices her life to save her from a demon's curse.

So I guess I'm just not sure what readers would make of their relationship.
 

Mary Mitchell

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I would say this setup would lead to a lot of good plot complications and character development as Shiani has to choose between Lerissa and the rest of the world. How far is Shiani willing to go to stop Lerissa? Will Shiani eventually learn that she can no longer love someone like that enough to avoid doing whatever needs to be done--including sacrificing Lerissa--to save the world? Ooh, stakes.
 

amergina

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You can have your protagonist and antagonist be friends. Heck, you can have them be lovers. And they don't even have to be the villain...they just need to be someone who opposes the protagonist and provides an obstacle toward the protagonist achieving their goal.

Or they can be the villain...and still be a friend.

The conflicts you can play with are great in any case.
 

divine-intestine

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The antagonist is there to stop the protagonist reaching their goal. Their relation could be just about anything and an antagonist could be anything too.
 

CJSimone

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I'm wondering if it's possible for the protagonist to get along too well with the antagonist. The reason I ask is that Shiani is actually on pretty good terms with my antagonist, Lerissa.

The big thing that pits them against each other is that Lerissa wants to kill the human race and Shiani wants to prevent that. I'd say preventing mass genocide is a pretty good reason to try and stop someone, but Shiani loves Lerissa and Lerissa loves her. Lerissa even saves her from execution at one point and then later on sacrifices her life to save her from a demon's curse.

So I guess I'm just not sure what readers would make of their relationship.

I don't see this as a problem at all, and it sounds like it would make for an interesting story. Complex relationships, like complex people, are generally considered more intriguing.

CJ
 

spottedgeckgo

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Gotta agree with everyone else. I see no issue here. Well, maybe an issue for the characters, but they'll have to deal with that in the book ;)

When I saw this, I thought of Superman and Lex Luther from some remade show with young Superman that I saw on TV once. Back when I watched TV.
 

MythMonger

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Sure, if the protagonist doesn't know that the other is a nemesis. That kind of structure can lead to very good stories.

caw

Or even if the protagonist does know! :)

The fate of humanity is but a small bump in the road, something to be worked out in couples counseling in the epilogue. ;)
 
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Sonsofthepharaohs

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When you love someone but fundamentally disagree with their principles or life goals, this is the foundation of a Jeremy Kyle episode.

When your protag loves your antag but has to stop them anyway, this is a great source of story conflict. Don't water this stuff down - it's gold.
 

gbondoni

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Adding my positive vote to everyone else's. Sounds like you have the makings of a very interesting story there!
 

The Pandion

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Ugh boring! I am not going to read 200 + - pages of soap opera type "I love you, but wait I hate you". Have more story and less emotional teen drama.
 

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Ugh boring! I am not going to read 200 + - pages of soap opera type "I love you, but wait I hate you". Have more story and less emotional teen drama.

I beg your pardon, but when did "emotional drama" and "story" become mutually exclusive? I admit I fail to see the problem.
 

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I beg your pardon, but when did "emotional drama" and "story" become mutually exclusive? I admit I fail to see the problem.

It is simple. Drama isn't story it is drama, boring predictable and just... soap opera-esk in the worst way. No-one wants to read a book all about drama of the "I love you, "No I hate you", "No I love you enough to die for you" kind. It is just... one dimensional and boring. Not to mention just not a sign of very mature characters or a good basis for a plot. How can you support a plot with that kind of drama? You can't!
 

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Ugh boring! I am not going to read 200 + - pages of soap opera type "I love you, but wait I hate you". Have more story and less emotional teen drama.

How about "I love you despite our opposing goals?"
 

PyriteFool

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It is simple. Drama isn't story it is drama, boring predictable and just... soap opera-esk in the worst way. No-one wants to read a book all about drama of the "I love you, "No I hate you", "No I love you enough to die for you" kind. It is just... one dimensional and boring. Not to mention just not a sign of very mature characters or a good basis for a plot. How can you support a plot with that kind of drama? You can't!

Really? Because this Good Reads list of "Villain as romantic love interests" books has 417 entries.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/13508.Villain_as_romantic_love_interests

It doesn't even have to be romantic love! Star Wars did this really well with Luke and Darth Vader developing a familial bond. It was literally the foundation of the climax to the trilogy (and hey, spoiler alert, it ended with Vader deciding he loved his son enough to die for him). It's all in execution. Sure it can be one-dimensional, but literally any idea can be executed poorly. This idea just happens to have lots of ways for it to go well, and there's demand for it. Stories are built on conflict, and the protagonist and antagonist loving each other? So much conflict right there. How does the hero deal with loving someone doing something opposed to their principles? Hurt the person they love? Try to see their point of view? Something has to give in this situation and finding out what it is can easily drive a story. Set up properly, you can get some genuine suspense.

And besides, why is the hero loving the villain and more likely to be poorly executed/one-dimensional than the hero hating the villain?
 

Sonsofthepharaohs

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It is simple. Drama isn't story it is drama, boring predictable and just... soap opera-esk in the worst way. No-one wants to read a book all about drama of the "I love you, "No I hate you", "No I love you enough to die for you" kind. It is just... one dimensional and boring. Not to mention just not a sign of very mature characters or a good basis for a plot. How can you support a plot with that kind of drama? You can't!

Yeah. All those books with emotional drama are just so poorly written, lacking in plot and boring! I mean, how can you have an interesting story when it's full of people having feelings?? Ridiculous. All we want is robotic action scenes, one after the other, where no one has any emotional stakes in the outcome whatsoever and the only thing of interest is the lovingly detailed descriptions of bloy by blow combat. Coz that's so engaging.
 

The Pandion

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How about "I love you despite our opposing goals?"

Ugh boring! Really this is just far too easy to make in over dramatisation of the relationship. By that I mean it is going to go very Days of Our Lives very very fast.

Really? Because this Good Reads list of "Villain as romantic love interests" books has 417 entries.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/13508.Villain_as_romantic_love_interests

It doesn't even have to be romantic love! Star Wars did this really well with Luke and Darth Vader developing a familial bond. It was literally the foundation of the climax to the trilogy (and hey, spoiler alert, it ended with Vader deciding he loved his son enough to die for him). It's all in execution. Sure it can be one-dimensional, but literally any idea can be executed poorly. This idea just happens to have lots of ways for it to go well, and there's demand for it. Stories are built on conflict, and the protagonist and antagonist loving each other? So much conflict right there. How does the hero deal with loving someone doing something opposed to their principles? Hurt the person they love? Try to see their point of view? Something has to give in this situation and finding out what it is can easily drive a story. Set up properly, you can get some genuine suspense.

And besides, why is the hero loving the villain and more likely to be poorly executed/one-dimensional than the hero hating the villain?

But it wasn't the plot. It was a side thing that happened to advance the plot. There is a vast difference between writing for a plot with emotional threads running through to grow the character and so advance the plot and writing for the drama. When you write for drama you get soap opera when you get soap opera you get no plot!

So? There are thousands of YA titles out there. Doesn't mean that they are readable.

Yeah. All those books with emotional drama are just so poorly written, lacking in plot and boring! I mean, how can you have an interesting story when it's full of people having feelings?? Ridiculous. All we want is robotic action scenes, one after the other, where no one has any emotional stakes in the outcome whatsoever and the only thing of interest is the lovingly detailed descriptions of bloy by blow combat. Coz that's so engaging.

There is a big difference between having emotional growth of a character throughout a thoughtful and plot heavy book and writing a soap opera where the drama is king queen and there is little to no actual plot, movement, character growth or anything interesting for a reader too, you know, read.
 

be frank

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YA = Bad. Like Harry Potter, Sparkling Vampires, Hunger Games, Maze Runner, Wallflower, Faulty Stars bad.

Oh FFS.

There's one rule here, mate. RYFW. Respect your fellow writer. There are plenty of YA writers and readers here, and you've just insulted all of them.
 

Twick

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There is a big difference between having emotional growth of a character throughout a thoughtful and plot heavy book and writing a soap opera where the drama is king queen and there is little to no actual plot, movement, character growth or anything interesting for a reader too, you know, read.

I'm not entirely sure why you assume that the OP's situation would necessarily lead to this result. It was a very basic plot twist - can the protagonist like/love the antagonist, even while despising their actions? That's not in itself overly dramatic. It could be handled in many ways, from emotionally fraught to bare-bones minimalist.
 

AW Admin

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Oh FFS.

There's one rule here, mate. RYFW. Respect your fellow writer. There are plenty of YA writers and readers here, and you've just insulted all of them.

Pandion had problems with that under another name, and has thus just become permanently unwelcome.