The Cantina Staring Back At You From The Abyss

Mary Love

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Would anybody be willing to crit 101 words for me? It's an idea I had, hoping to sub to https://101words.org/

I need some grammatical advice, as well as any other normal suggestions.
 
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E.F.B.

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Is anybody willing to crit 101 words for me? It's an idea I had for https://101words.org/

I need some grammatical advice, as well as any other normal suggestions.

Mary, nothing grammatical jumped out at me as needing fixing. Literally the only thing I would change is deleting the word, "Then" at the beginning of the second paragraph as it feels unnecessary to me. Otherwise, it looks fine. Certainly better than I could do in so few words. :)


Newsies was great. I knew nothing about the story going in other than that is was about a newsboy strike in New York back in the day, but it was inspiring, great fun, the actors and actresses were super talented and wow, they must all be in really great shape to dance and sing with that much vigor and not even seem out of breath. Also, glad I learned my lesson and got seats several rows back from the front because there was much throwing of wadded newspaper at one point, some of which bounced off the heads of the audience members in the first few rows. :p Anyway, if y'all ever get the chance to see Newsies on stage and you haven't seen it already, I 100% recommend it.

Got supper at Red Lobster afterwards. I'd only had Cheese-Its and some juice for lunch during the 2hr drive to get to the play and was starving to death by the end, so I ate until my stomach felt like it might explode. 'Twas very good food. Om nom nom! Wish I'd had room for dessert, but then I really would have exploded. Currently riding in the car on the 2hr drive back home. *yawn*
 
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Caitlin Black

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I, too, had an "I'm starving! Now I shall eat all the foods!" moment, yesterday. Barely ate during the day (visiting the grandparents), then devoured a meal of prawns and chips that was big enough for 2 people, all by myself. Definitely felt stuffed afterwards, but so worth it. :)
 

greendragon

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2000 words a day is my usual novel goal, too. Hope the northern lights are cool!

With Word and track changes: when beta-reading, I mostly use comments to note edits instead of actually adding/deleting/rewriting anything. Just the style I developed. Somehow I just like being able to see all of their work still and just add my notes.

No northern lights were seen :( However, it was a grand weekend! I sold a $950 piece of beadwork, woohoo!!! Also, fantastic weather and great people.

I've worked my goal back up to 2k words/day for the rest of this draft. Good discipline for nano coming up too (though I may be doing nanocheat again, since I really don't have time to plot but still have stuff to finish. Also good discipline :cry:).

Back to the track changes: I'd be curious (and slightly afraid) to see what a MS looks like when it comes back from an editor. Where would you even begin? Fly through it and accept the smaller changes while

making note of the bigger things, probably. *shudder* Seems like it would be so overwhelming and yet I'm slightly turned on at the idea. :tongue (Jade, you'll have to tell me how it goes!)

My editor does it this way - minor changes inline, larger suggestions/questions/notes as review comments. I usually accept the inline changes first (unless there was a REASON I did it that way) and then go through and address each comment. Occasionally I answer with a different comment/explanation, etc.
 

Richard White

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Spent the weekend going through some web sites that list book bloggers/reviewers and going through them one-by-one to see who might be interested in reviewing Harbinger of Darkness. Sent out about 20 requests and sent out two copies to reviewers - waiting to hear from the others. *fingers crossed*

Now, I need to finish getting things ready for Archon in St. Louis (my last convention of 2017) and start making preparations for my 2018 convention schedule, as well as finishing a novel and a novella. *gah*

At least, the K.C. Chiefs won this weekend. :e2cheer:
 

Aggy B.

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Hey, is there a furniture thing that's like a couch but with no arm- or backrest? Just a big, flat cushion with legs basically?

Ottoman, maybe. Although those are usually more chair sized. Or a chaise lounge? In some places they have "day beds" but those usually have a bed frame around the back and sides, but are used more like a couch during the day.
 

Fruitbat

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Hey, is there a furniture thing that's like a couch but with no arm- or backrest? Just a big, flat cushion with legs basically?

You could probably just cover a twin bed with an upholstery-ish fabric, with a skirt down to the floor. Or if you're just asking for a name of something like that, I'd instantly recognize "frameless daybed" or "large, upholstered bench" or something along those lines...
 
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E.F.B.

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Hey, is there a furniture thing that's like a couch but with no arm- or backrest? Just a big, flat cushion with legs basically?

Ottoman, maybe. Although those are usually more chair sized. Or a chaise lounge? In some places they have "day beds" but those usually have a bed frame around the back and sides, but are used more like a couch during the day.
This^ was my thought as well.


Afternoon, Cantina. Gah, I'm tired. You wouldn't think sitting in a car, sitting to watch a play, then sitting in a car again would make me so tired the next day, but it always happens when we go on day trips like that. Some of it probably has to do with getting home so late, I'm sure. Going to try to word today despite the tiredness.

ION: Apparently, the key to winning book giveaways is to, A) enter a whole bunch of them, then, B) whine to friends when you win none of them, after which, you'll win two giveaways in as many weeks. Or at least, that's what seemed to have worked for me. :p *enters more giveaways*
 

Niniva

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There has to be but all I can see is a daybed and a Chesterfield. Oh, divan then. That makes perfect sense.
 
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Religion0

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Ottoman, maybe. Although those are usually more chair sized. Or a chaise lounge? In some places they have "day beds" but those usually have a bed frame around the back and sides, but are used more like a couch during the day.
A giant Ottoman, maybe then?

I'd call that a divan.
Thanks! I think that might be it. I need something big enough to put a tiger on it.

ETA: Googling divan gave me the first result of a pizza place. Now I'm picturing a tiger flying through space on a giant pizza.
 
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greendragon

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ETA: Googling divan gave me the first result of a pizza place. Now I'm picturing a tiger flying through space on a giant pizza.

This is what is known as 'a writing prompt.' Dammy: Go, go go!

Richard, I gave your book a shout out just yesterday on an FB thread :) Hopefully it results in a sale ( or more!)

Tonight I speak at Cafe Scientifique in Corning - a speech on historical fiction and research methods. This is my first time actually speaking on this subject, but I'm confident I can rattle on for hours about it. I plan on first talking about the different types of historical fiction - real historic people as main characters, fictional characters in historic settings, and historical fantasy/alternate worlds history. Then I'll touch on some of the conflicts between authenticity and readability to the modern audience, the use of traditional words/spellings/meaning, and research methods/resources of varying reliability.

What do you think? What else would you like to know about if I were giving the talk here?
 

E.F.B.

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Tonight I speak at Cafe Scientifique in Corning - a speech on historical fiction and research methods. This is my first time actually speaking on this subject, but I'm confident I can rattle on for hours about it. I plan on first talking about the different types of historical fiction - real historic people as main characters, fictional characters in historic settings, and historical fantasy/alternate worlds history. Then I'll touch on some of the conflicts between authenticity and readability to the modern audience, the use of traditional words/spellings/meaning, and research methods/resources of varying reliability.

What do you think? What else would you like to know about if I were giving the talk here?
You're covering every question I could think to ask and it sounds like it will be a very interesting speech. Wish I could hear it!

Morning, Cantina. Got clouds from Josè today, but no rain or any other impact on weather. I'm hoping to be less tired and more productive than I was yesterday and so far I'm at least not dragging quite so much. Words definitely need to happen.
 

greendragon

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I wrote up outline notes for the speech. I'm happy to share. I do expand on each topic off the cuff, but these are my guideline topics.



Historical Fiction – The Joys of Researching the Impossible

Today is Talk Like A Pirate Day, Arrr! But if I do that the entire speech, no one would follow, so I’m afraid I’ll have to forgo that particular bit of quasi-historical fun.

I’m Christy Nicholas. I’m an author, an artist, and an accountant. I have a deep abiding love for Ireland, Scotland and all things historical and magical.

When I was younger, I loved science fiction and fantasy. Part of this affection was for the classics – Robert Heinlein, Tolkein, Asimov, etc. As a result, I developed a love of the medieval settings many fantasy novels love to live in. As I got older, I didn’t look to the future as much as I delved into the past, so I started researching the facts behind the fiction.

Combine that with a bit of obsessive personality and a passion for reading, and you end up with a library of over 1500 books.

Three Basic Types of Historical Fiction:

  • Novels with historic people as the main characters: Sharon Kay Penman, Philippa Gregory, Robert Graves, Morgan Llewellyn, Elizabeth Chadwick, Sir Walter Scott (Ivanhoe, Rob Roy)
  • Novels with historic events as the background, but fictional main characters: Bernard Cornwell, Edward Rutherferd, Ken Follett, Alexandre Dumas
  • Historical fantasy/alternate world history: Me, Katherine Kurtz (Camber Chronicles), Juliet Marillier (Daughter of the Forest), Diana Gabaladon

Conflict between authenticity and readability to the modern audience

  • Language – when writing about 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century Ireland, you cannot use the language of the time. English didn’t exist as we can read it until much later!
  • Names – how authentic do you want the spelling? Can people pronounce names like Muirceartach ua conchobair = Murtagh O’Connor.
  • Words – different meanings then and now.
    • Nice – silly, foolish, simple
    • Awful – worthy of awe
    • Wench – female child became female servant became wanton woman
    • Naughty – you had nothing
    • Meat – solid food of any kind, as opposed to animal flesh.
  • Normally, it’s a fine line between using words that ‘sound’ historic, a few outdated idioms, names, or phrases, and becoming incomprehensible
  • Dorothy Dunnett’s 16[SUP]th[/SUP] century Scottish characters use quotations from Renaissance verse in old languages (untranslated) such as Old French, Scottish Gaelic, Doric, Old Scots. No context.
  • Using authentic songs or poems – FINDING authentic songs or poems!
  • Anachronistic items, phrases, words – etymonline!
  • Profanity – Today we tend to use bodily functions as expletives, as they were taboo not too long ago – like the 1950s. fuck (15[SUP]th[/SUP] c) or shit (Germanic roots).
  • In medieval times, it was considered far worse to blaspheme – use God’s name in vain. That’s why ‘bloody’ was so bad – it referred to Christ’s wounds on the cross. God’s bones, Christ’s fingernails, etc. – wishing actual harm to God!
  • Then you get into creative cursing, an especial talent of both Shakespeare and any Gaelic person. Fantastic words such as Fopdoodle, Jobbernowl, Lickspittle, Nobthatcher.
  • “May the cat eat you and may the divil eat the cat”
  • “May you all go to hell and not have a drop of porter to quench your eternal thirst”

Which brings me to resources, an eternal sore spot. There seems to be a direct correlation between ease of use and usefulness in historic resources.


  • The easiest to find are articles and published works on the internet. However, it is often very difficult to determine the authenticity of these resources. Free is worth what you pay for it!
  • Books on Amazon/used book sales are great, but you have to know what to look for. It’s not efficient to buy a whole book for one piece of data.
  • Scholarly works – some available online, some on dedicated scholar sites like jstor.com (open access to scholarly articles/journals/academic papers)
  • Some things on Gutenburg project. My favorite are the Annals of Ireland
  • Interviews with historical experts – very difficult to find/arrange!
  • Finding ANY information on particular things –
    • What flower grew in April in Ireland that is native and can help coughs
    • Details of pre-Roman Irish funerals
    • Typical dinner in 5[SUP]th[/SUP] century Ireland. Or lunch. Or breakfast.
    • Clothing/costume detail. Don’t do a Braveheart.

I typically spend a couple of weeks researching things, places, events, etc. before I even start writing my synopsis for the story. I want to find a place where there is a conflict. It could be big or small, political or physical, but there must be conflict. A plague, an invasion, a coupe, a shift in beliefs, a contested succession, even a neighbor’s dispute. Conflict is what drives a story. It doesn’t have to be save-the-world, it could just be save-YOUR-world.

Once I have a conflict (Annals of Ireland) I can determine place. Then I research the lives of people in that place at that time. Clothing. Food. Customs. Daily life. Traditions. Beliefs. Superstitions. Healing. Drink. Family. Housing.

Now I have conflict and setting. Are there any historic people that might touch the lives of my characters? A king, a bishop, an adventurer, a bard? Maybe they encounter a monster out of legend – a Fae, a Banshee, a Goddess. What were the beliefs of such a being at the time? (No Victorian cherubic fairies, please!)

Names! I love names. I search the Annals for typical names of the time. I need to balance between memorable, pronouncable, authentic and having a local flavor. Connor is great – Muirceartach ua Conchobair not so much.

Once I have all of these, I can start writing my story out. Of course, for every 1000 words written, I’ve stopped at least 3 times to spot-research things. Did whiskey exist then? What are the canonical hours? Did the poor use beeswax candles? What did people sit on in the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] century? Could a woman divorce according to Canon Law? What about Gaelic Law? Which held sway at the time?

Even with all the research, I will find things after I write the first draft that don’t make sense. Was the word ‘member’ used to describe the penis (yes, from the 13[SUP]th[/SUP] century at least)? Did adults drink milk (in Ireland, yes). Did the word Catholic exist then? (16[SUP]th[/SUP] century)

It’s a juggling act, an art form and an obsessive’s nightmare – but it’s also incredibly satisfying to have woven this tapestry of moving parts into a hopefully cohesive, entertaining, and reasonably accurate novel of historical fiction.
 
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Friendly Frog

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I am back and I don't really want to be but eh, such is life. It's cold and raining. Endlessly raining.

Our nice family holiday with some invited guests started well enough. (I read a book a day! I had written 6000 words! Okay, so it was Silmarillion fanfic but I was loving it and it has been three effing years or so that I have written anything apart from Sisyphus.) And then on the fifth day (out of the scheduled 14) we get the call that my granma is in hospital and deteriorating fast. We have been expecting this call about two years now (granny has gone through so many health scares the last few years and always came out that we were suspecting she was mostly made out of asbestos anyway) but the quick deterioration was new.

Well, that was the end of everything.

So we had my sis arrange an emergency flight ticket for my mom from home on the next day, started prematurely closing down the holiday house for the winter since this was meant to our last visit this year away, put our friends on the plane, wrangled the harbour office for two days to change ferry tickets (we were on an island with the car), ended up sleeping on the boat corridor because there were no cabins left, and finally drove the rest of the 1100 km long trek home in one go.

She died just as we were leaving, for which I am not entirely sorry because she needed that morphine-induced sleep more than seeing me a last time.

I'm having a little trouble fielding all the sympathy coming my way. It was expected. We were not that close as granma could be difficult and was an extremely private person so that even my mom cannot name one single interest or hobby of granny, assuming she even had one. I do have good memories of her and will miss her but I'm happier rather she's at peace now than suffering but I don't seem to be able to explain that to other people.
 

Mary Love

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I'm having a little trouble fielding all the sympathy coming my way. It was expected. We were not that close as granma could be difficult and was an extremely private person so that even my mom cannot name one single interest or hobby of granny, assuming she even had one. I do have good memories of her and will miss her but I'm happier rather she's at peace now than suffering but I don't seem to be able to explain that to other people.

I understand that. My grandpa recently died at age 90 after several painful months of stomach cancer. We weren't close and the biggest relief was in his passing--the only sorrow for grandma, though she honestly seemed relieved as well. The big condolences are awkward to receive at that point.
 

Damoclian

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Well, that was the end of everything.

My duuuuuuuude! :'O I feel you SO much rn. Like, I barely even met my grandparents, let alone spoke to them or had deep and meaningful relationships. I knew that they were suffering in their old age toward the end, and I felt sad just looking at them. I never really got to spend much time in their presence. So, even though my own parents miss theirs dearly and talk about them fondly... I just, I don't feel anything about it. I'm numb. Except for one grandparent, my mother's father. I've heard stories of him, he died a LOOONG time ago, and honestly, I think he was a tyrant and I'm glad I never met him.

But yeah, sympathy can be rough.

This is what is known as 'a writing prompt.' Dammy: Go, go go!

Say whut?? :s Why must I go!? :'o I want to STAAAAAYYYY!!!!11!!1!
:flag:

A full and well-lived life should be celebrated, not mourned.

^^ Hear! Hear!
 

greendragon

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I was blessed.

On my mom's side:

My mom and I lived with her parents until I was 8. I knew three of my great-grandparents. My great-grandmother Jackson passed on when I was 8 - three strokes in a month finally did her in. She was strong! Then my great-grandfather Jackson died when I was 18, falling in the bathtub and hitting his spine on the faucets. He was 99, still living alone. My great-grandmother Firestone (mother's mother's mother) died at age 99 as well, when I was in my 20s.

My grandfather died when I was in my early 30s. He was 85. Then my grandmother just died this past January. She was 97.

My dad's side:

Since I didn't meet my dad or any of his family until I was 30, I didn't meet my grandparents on that side until then, but I at least met them the once. Both died in their mid-90s.

I loved listening to stories from them all.

Go, go, go write the story!

1900 words today so far, and more to come. Up to 12,470 on my current WIP, Misfortune of Time. I started it 10 days ago. Not too bad, eh?