The Cantina Staring Back At You From The Abyss

Eilyfe

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I became collateral damage yesterday night.

Two idiots clobbered themselves over soccer, breaking their beer glasses. Of course they didn't clean up after themselves and left that stuff lying around. You've got three tries to guess who walked right into one of those land mines. The shard went right through the shoe.

Pro: the club management handled it like champs, patching me up. Fist bumps and well-wishing all around from the security too. Nice people.
Con: I'm on my way now to have a doctor look at it and get a tetanus shot.

The most infuriating part is two-fold: a) I was about to leave the club when it happened, and since they didn't allow me to walk back home with that wound, I had to wait for the next bus (about 2 hours); b) and this is far worse, as mentioned above: those meatheads began bashing their skulls in for goddamn soccer. I'll never understand that. On a normal day it's the thing that interests me the least of everything I know. But to actually see people go at it for stupid reasons like that boggles my mind. To be a victim of their stupidity is even worse.

Perhaps that's some good rage to fuel the word smithies. We'll see.
 
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Jade Rothwell

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Man, there are churches every around the GTA. That one looks familiar too. It's both comforting and a little creepy that you can't throw a rock without hitting a church in some of those neighborhoods. Even in my city, there's a ton within just a few blocks, with a truly scary looking, Silent Hill-esque cathedral overlooking a hill. I keep expecting an Elder God to manifest out of that one.

But yeah, winter in Canada. Or at least Great Lakes Canada. Back in my ancestral home of Alberta, apparently it's been that way for a while, which is no real surprise.

there are SO MANY churches here. I'm agnostic, so I mostly just like the architecture of some of them. cool/creepy/old/gothic buildings are a+

my sis-in-law lives in Calgary and she's always sending us pics of snowy days. I'm glad I'm in Ontario

M'yeah. It sometimes dips down to -40 f here for about a week in mid January. If we're lucky, it's -20. And that's before windchill.

that sounds HORRIFYING *sends you 30 blankets*

I became collateral damage yesterday night.

oh that's awful! :Hug2:

PS: MY WIP IS OVER 10K WORDS! :O I'm pretty sure this is going to turn into a full length novel!
 
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E.F.B.

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There's a spider somewhere on my chair. It's one of those tiny ones that's really fast and I can barely get a look at it much less catch it, darned thing. Gah. *eye twitch* *tries to write without thinking about tiny, speedy, spiders*
 

Yzjdriel

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Dealing With Dragons is the one with the princess who goes off to be "kidnapped" by a dragon on the advice of a talking frog, yeah?

I don't remember a talking frog, but I remember that the dragon is the 'good guy' while the Wizards are most decidedly NOT - in fact, wizards are the prominent antagonists of the series.
 

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I haven't written much this month, which is just as well because I needed the recharge... Reading and brainstorm tons and I've got lots of random writerly thoughts. Where better to dump 'em than at a table in the cantina?

- I want to copy everything and tweak it to my likey! The last three books and the movie I watched--all of them had so much wasted potential, imo. As I brainstorm for new projects, I've literally been contemplating how much outright copying is acceptable, (heehee :)) but more importantly, what kernel of the story, exactly, it is that tugs at me so much. A tricky thing to identify. But as I let my brain run thorough analytics on all the media I take in, it makes me realize just what kleptomaniacs we writers are. :tongue

- I read the first chapter of writing craft book, literally minutes before my sister started reading The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe aloud (for the babzillianth time) to our youngest sister. Good grief, Lewis made every mistake outlined in that chapter, even worse than their example descriptions. The chapter was on show vr. tell, explaining the different areas tell can creep in and how sometimes tell is actually better. I know Lewis's style is sorely dated and wouldn't be as successful now, but my brain can't stop going over what made that book a classic and how it might be written today and whether that would be better (I mean, how could it be? His nosey omni narrative is just so charming.)

- Conflict. It's so vital to story, and yet as a sensitive person, I often struggle with it in media (especially on screen--my mind is better as skimming in the written word). At the same time, I love stories, so I kind of love a good conflict. I am always looking for a better/stronger one for my story. Sigh. Sometimes I have to pause and wonder if I'm just super looney. My brothers are always perplexed by me: "You'll read X but you won't watch Z with us?" I understand not all conflict has to be blood and battle scenes, but my YA genres defiantly call for a loud external conflict to tie into the internal ones.

Also, I think I'm juggling too many projects. After this break, I can't decide what to work on: The idea brewing in my mind that has me excited? The disaster from Nano that has to be totally rewritten? Or trying to come up with ideas to improve draft 3 of a wip... I just dunno.

Anyway. Those are the random writerly thoughts in my head.
 
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J. A. Rama

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There's a spider somewhere on my chair. It's one of those tiny ones that's really fast and I can barely get a look at it much less catch it, darned thing. Gah. *eye twitch* *tries to write without thinking about tiny, speedy, spiders*

Thank you nightmare fuel.

*thinks of nanotech spiders*

THANK YOU NIGHTMARE FUEL.

Sounds like a Sissyfus prompt to me

No muse, this is not food THIS IS NOT FOOD

too late

- I want to copy everything and tweak it to my likey! The last three books and the movie I watched--all of them had so much wasted potential, imo. As I brainstorm for new projects, I've literally been contemplating how much outright copying is acceptable, (heehee :)) but more importantly, what kernel of the story, exactly, it is that tugs at me so much. A tricky thing to identify. But as I let my brain run thorough analytics on all the media I take in, it makes me realize just what kleptomaniacs we writers are. :tongue

RIGHT? Whenever I watch or read something, one of two things happen.

- I love it so much that my muse goes THAT'S AWESOME I WANT TO DO THAT TOO so then I make it my life's ambition to improve my craft to the point that I can pull off the same thing.

- Something (or many things) about it annoy(s) me, and I can't relax until I've figured out WHY the story felt wrong and bad to me. Alternately, I read/watch, and I can only think, "I would have done this differently." After that, I make it my life's ambition to DO IT RIGHT.

Like, I recently read this short story that just...annoyed me. It was well-written, but something about it made my brain scream WAIT WHAT THAT'S LAME...THAT'S NOT EVEN A STORY. Then I realized why it annoyed me - it was because not only was the story entirely passive, meaning the character did nothing to change either their circumstances or themself, but they also didn't appear to want anything, and they didn't even think through things and come to a realization. Like, there are plenty of flash stories where the characters don't take action as such, and the world is in the same state before and after, but there is still some kind of twist that comes of them putting two and two together and realizing something, or changing what they want. No spoilers, but in the story I'm talking about, they didn't try to change the odd thing that was happening, they didn't wonder about it, and they just...sat there, basically. Immediately after, my brain was just screaming, COME ON, GIVE ME SOMETHING and then I proceeded to think about how I would have either had the character try to change their circumstances, or I would have put the thing that happened at the beginning and had them react to it, or had them realize why this was happening to them.

Anyway. So many stories were born in this way, because I was too annoyed to let it go, and I could never resist questioning things that were stupid and just go with it like people told me to do. XD

Writers. We can't resist picking apart the world.

- I read the first chapter of writing craft book, literally minutes before my sister started reading The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe aloud (for the babzillianth time) to our youngest sister. Good grief, Lewis made every mistake outlined in that chapter, even worse than their example descriptions. The chapter was on show vr. tell, explaining the different areas tell can creep in and how sometimes tell is actually better. I know Lewis's style is sorely dated and wouldn't be as successful now, but my brain can't stop going over what made that book a classic and how it might be written today and wether that would be better (I mean, how could it be? His nosey omni narrative is just so charming.)

Honestly, I don't understand craft books, because good writing is hard to define. I read a lot of stuff that I find charming, because the old style doesn't bother me, but there are a lot of people who can't read certain things because they can't get past the style.

I mean. Yeah, sure, C. S. Lewis may do a lot of stuff that craft books call mistakes, but I love those books! Despite the "mistakes," the writing is just GOOD, I think, because the story grabs me. It's the same reason I will never be too old to reread A Little Princess or The Secret Garden - I only wish I could be a good enough writer eventually to imbue my words with the same sort of magic I feel every time I read those stories. You just can't teach that.

I feel like you can learn all the craft you want, but in the end, YOU have to choose an approach, and pull it off. There are people who will try to do everything the craft book says, but I will find their writing bland and uninteresting, because it just doesn't grab me...it will feel like there is just no art or passion behind their words. Then there are people who will do everything right, and the story will be good, because they polished it with a loving spit shine. Then there are people who will just fling spaghetti at the walls, and break every rule, and it will be terrible. And then there is my favorite, the people who DO break the rules, and do so fantastically, and somehow manage to pull it off, and there is magic in every sentence. ^_^

I feel like the reason is that every person's brain is different. Standards will always change - I mean, novel writing is a relatively new art, so of course people are still fumbling around exploring it - but people's brains are different. One person likes brevity with an open feel. One person likes deep worldbuilding. One person likes a visceral, rapid feel. Another person likes dense words packed so thick with meaning that they can just jump into the novel and get lost in the story time after time after time. So in the end, we really just have to keep doing what we do, whatever is best for the story, picking apart what doesn't work, and keep improving that.

In the beginning, the rules are there to help you learn.

Later on, the rules are there so you learn how to break them.
 
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E.F.B.

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Honestly, I don't understand craft books, because good writing is hard to define. I read a lot of stuff that I find charming, because the old style doesn't bother me, but there are a lot of people who can't read certain things because they can't get past the style.

I mean. Yeah, sure, C. S. Lewis may do a lot of stuff that craft books call mistakes, but I love those books! Despite the "mistakes," the writing is just GOOD, I think, because the story grabs me. It's the same reason I will never be too old to reread A Little Princess or The Secret Garden - I only wish I could be a good enough writer eventually to imbue my words with the same sort of magic I feel every time I read those stories. You just can't teach that.

I feel like you can learn all the craft you want, but in the end, YOU have to choose an approach, and pull it off. There are people who will try to do everything the craft book says, but I will find their writing bland and uninteresting, because it just doesn't grab me...it will feel like there is just no art or passion behind their words. Then there are people who will do everything right, and the story will be good, because they polished it with a loving spit shine. Then there are people who will just fling spaghetti at the walls, and break every rule, and it will be terrible. And then there is my favorite, the people who DO break the rules, and do so fantastically, and somehow manage to pull it off, and there is magic in every sentence. ^_^

I feel like the reason is that every person's brain is different. Standards will always change - I mean, novel writing is a relatively new art, so of course people are still fumbling around exploring it - but people's brains are different. One person likes brevity with an open feels. One person likes deep worldbuilding. One person likes a visceral, rapid feel. Another person likes dense words packed so thick with meaning that they can just jump into the novel and get lost in the story time after time after time. So in the end, we really just have to keep doing what we do, whatever is best for the story, picking apart what doesn't work, and keep improving that.

In the beginning, the rules are there to help you learn.

Later on, the rules are there so you learn how to break them.
QFT TIMES ONE BILLION!!! Yuuuuuuuuus *nods*
 

Kitkitdizzi

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Ugh. I've been doing QA/QC all week on a massive amount of DNA sequence data. I don't ever want to see the letters A T C G again. Or N.

And I still have another day of it :cry:I think my eyes are bleeding.
 

Caitlin Black

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These 2 electronica tracks I've done about 1/3 of so far... The more I listen to what I've already done, the happier I am with them. I mean, they're pretty simple compared to a lot of what's out there... But damn, there's just something about them that I keep going back to. I'm not sure how much of that is simply that I made them, and being proud of myself, and how much is actually specific to the tracks themselves. But I do think I'm onto a winner here.

And here's the thing: They were actually pretty simple to make, too. Like, I could probably do a song a day next year, and they would be complete songs... Like, I could finish one off in a single day, I think. And if they all have the same "growing on me" factor, then yeah... This could be a Very Good Thing.

I'm kind of tempted to make a New Year's resolution to make a song a day in 2018. Well, okay, maybe I'd have to be lenient on myself... 30 seconds of music every day minimum?

Except I've never kept a New Year's resolution before... As I'm sure so many people can relate.
 

Religion0

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I hate the fact that it's always so warm and sunny here. Here. y'all can take it. All of it.

I want some COLD. Some SNOW.
Where are you and I doubt you'd want the perpetual autumn I've got going.

I don't remember a talking frog, but I remember that the dragon is the 'good guy' while the Wizards are most decidedly NOT - in fact, wizards are the prominent antagonists of the series.
It's by Patricia Wrede, yeah? It's the same one. I'd actually kinda forgotten the wizards...

Honestly, I don't understand craft books, because good writing is hard to define. I read a lot of stuff that I find charming, because the old style doesn't bother me, but there are a lot of people who can't read certain things because they can't get past the style.

I mean. Yeah, sure, C. S. Lewis may do a lot of stuff that craft books call mistakes, but I love those books! Despite the "mistakes," the writing is just GOOD, I think, because the story grabs me. It's the same reason I will never be too old to reread A Little Princess or The Secret Garden - I only wish I could be a good enough writer eventually to imbue my words with the same sort of magic I feel every time I read those stories. You just can't teach that.

I feel like you can learn all the craft you want, but in the end, YOU have to choose an approach, and pull it off. There are people who will try to do everything the craft book says, but I will find their writing bland and uninteresting, because it just doesn't grab me...it will feel like there is just no art or passion behind their words. Then there are people who will do everything right, and the story will be good, because they polished it with a loving spit shine. Then there are people who will just fling spaghetti at the walls, and break every rule, and it will be terrible. And then there is my favorite, the people who DO break the rules, and do so fantastically, and somehow manage to pull it off, and there is magic in every sentence. ^_^

I feel like the reason is that every person's brain is different. Standards will always change - I mean, novel writing is a relatively new art, so of course people are still fumbling around exploring it - but people's brains are different. One person likes brevity with an open feel. One person likes deep worldbuilding. One person likes a visceral, rapid feel. Another person likes dense words packed so thick with meaning that they can just jump into the novel and get lost in the story time after time after time. So in the end, we really just have to keep doing what we do, whatever is best for the story, picking apart what doesn't work, and keep improving that.

In the beginning, the rules are there to help you learn.

Later on, the rules are there so you learn how to break them.
I think there are books on the craft of and trends in writing that are nevertheless well worth reading or knowing about, the problem with many of them are that they tend to be personal or popular opinions ("show don't tell" and "said is dead", anyone?) rather than long views of what makes for good stories. The Hero With a Thousand Faces details the outline of the oldest stories in the world, Elements of Eloquence by Mark Forsyth dissects what makes something sound good and, well, eloquent by taking lessons from Shakespeare (at which time the details of what made eloquence was apparently a popular study) and every other well-written turn of phrase. Also, well-written book, so he knows what he's talking about. There are also those books which are more on how to write than how to write, if you take my meaning, which can be very helpful.

On everyone's brain being different, I think it's well worth looking at Lewis and Tolkien side by side, they were in the same writer's circle and good friends, and yet their styles are so very different that you can love one and abhor the other or both or neither.

... I think I might be compensating for Porter by trying to bring up the intellectual level of the debate in here.

Ugh. I've been doing QA/QC all week on a massive amount of DNA sequence data. I don't ever want to see the letters A T C G again. Or N.

And I still have another day of it :cry:I think my eyes are bleeding.
I'd like to switch places with you.
 

Jade Rothwell

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I agree that different things appeal to different people -- as writers AND readers.

I've gotten a lot of contradictory writing advice over the years. from books, teachers, betas... even within writing academia there's dissent constantly. and any given craft book will be hotly debated by those who've read it.

some standards are impossible for certain people, too. over the years, people have said that if you don't hand write your story first, it won't be real somehow. my vision issues mean that handwriting is almost impossible for me. when I mention that, it's just sort of met with a shrug and then the person continues to tell others to handwrite everything.

even when presented with evidence that not every technique works for every person, most prefer to believe the evidence is an outlier than recognize that art comes in all shapes and modes. none of which are 'better' than others.

/rant.
 

E.F.B.

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Morning, Cantina. I think...maybe...my editing of my Snow White retelling might be finished today! If it is, I'm taking a break from writing for a few days to enjoy Christmas festivities a little more fully, and generally going to go about it in a more relaxed manner for the last bit of the year because I've been working really hard on this thing and deserve to reward myself! I also need to work on some crafty things, including sewing the pieces of my crochet sweater together, and making some new stuff for the Etsy shop.
 

Mary Love

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Despite the "mistakes," the writing is just GOOD, I think, because the story grabs me. It's the same reason I will never be too old to reread A Little Princess or The Secret Garden - I only wish I could be a good enough writer eventually to imbue my words with the same sort of magic I feel every time I read those stories. You just can't teach that.

Lewis didn't make any mistakes!! I'll defend those books to the death. ;)

I understand what you're saying about the craft books, tho. I read them like I'd take any crit; with salt and an open mind. Not gospel. In the end, there's only so much technique you can learn anyway. What's most important is story. And that's my fav part.

I just read The Girl from the Train and the writing style was really different. Fast and clipped. A lot happened in a few words, and time zips around in one page. I didn't dislike it, but it took a bit to get used too. But omg, I wasn't emotionally prepared for how beautiful that story was. I loved it SO much. Story--first and last.

I agree that different things appeal to different people -- as writers AND readers.
A thousand times, this!!
 

JJ Litke

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The only real rule about writing is that it has to work. Guidelines exist to help new writers, because some techniques or styles are much harder to pull off well. It's like they're saying to stick to the shallow water and practice there before you try swimming in the ocean. That doesn't mean no one should ever swim in the ocean, just that you're in for a really rough time if you try to start out there.
 

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Just like any art, whether it be music, painting, drawing, novel-writing, etc., there are general rules. Those general rules USUALLY work, but the talented can break them and be brilliant. Look at Picasso - he learned how to paint beautiful realistic art, then literally ripped it up and tossed figurative art on it's head. And succeeded, because he was brilliant at it. Usually you have to learn the rules to know which to break and how.
 

greendragon

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On the other hand, there are thousands of 'experts' trying to sound like experts telling you what you can and can't do, should and shouldn't do - and if they really knew anything, they'd be doing it themselves. Each writer has a different style and focus, as each reader prefers their own style and focus. There is NO way to please them all. Write what you love, with passion and craft. The rest will come.
 

J. A. Rama

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Except I've never kept a New Year's resolution before... As I'm sure so many people can relate.

What about a rolling resolution? (THAT IS THE TERM I JUST MADE UP!) What I mean is, instead of a single point of failure (oh, got sick/blocked/busy, missed a day, TOO BAD SO SAD DIDN'T DO A SONG A DAY), how about aiming for a week of doing a song every day? Then another week...and another week...and on a week that you're sick/busy/blocked, you can adjust your goal appropriately, and so then at the end of the year you can look at how many times you actually did meet your goal...or if the format of the challenge ends up not being right, you can change it without invalidating what you've done before. :)

Where are you and I doubt you'd want the perpetual autumn I've got going.

Flahrduh.

It's...not fun. We don't have seasons. We have hot and January.

I love autumn. I'll take perpetual autumn over humid and so-hot-it's-torture any day. At least when it's cold I can actually think. When it's hot my brain just shuts down and the light is way too bright! Yes, I'm exactly like a Terry Pratchett troll.

I think there are books on the craft of and trends in writing that are nevertheless well worth reading or knowing about, the problem with many of them are that they tend to be personal or popular opinions ("show don't tell" and "said is dead", anyone?) rather than long views of what makes for good stories. The Hero With a Thousand Faces details the outline of the oldest stories in the world, Elements of Eloquence by Mark Forsyth dissects what makes something sound good and, well, eloquent by taking lessons from Shakespeare (at which time the details of what made eloquence was apparently a popular study) and every other well-written turn of phrase. Also, well-written book, so he knows what he's talking about. There are also those books which are more on how to write than how to write, if you take my meaning, which can be very helpful.

I agree entirely! I'm not saying there aren't craft books worth reading. I actually found Ray Bradbury's Zen in the Art of Writing and Strunk and White's The Elements of Style (yes, it's old, but man, following those rules made my writing much clearer) very useful. I guess I should say, I don't understand the ones that act like their way is The One True Way. As I said, first the rules are there to help you learn. The way I use books is I take what they say, try the stuff out, and then see whether I like the result, and take the statement that this is The One True Way with a pinch of salt.

I do wish I had figured this out in the beginning though. When I was a new young writer, I didn't know that craft books didn't have the answers, and so I let them completely screw me up. It took me YEARS to get my head back in the right place.

On everyone's brain being different, I think it's well worth looking at Lewis and Tolkien side by side, they were in the same writer's circle and good friends, and yet their styles are so very different that you can love one and abhor the other or both or neither.

You can never bring up the intellectual level too high, methinks.

Yes! I love the example of Tolkien and Lewis. For one, it's clear that style is really not just a product of the times, but also the influences and what they love to see. Tolkien wrote in a grand epic archaic style because the grand epics of...yore...were what inspired him! I'm not so sure about Lewis, but it was a thing to be descriptive in children's stories in the beginning, to establish the characters quickly. I don't know, when it's done well, I really like the introspective feeling you get from a "tell-y" beginning.

Also, regarding how they were friends, I always love those moments when I can see how they unconsciously influenced each other, because they probably talked over story stuff together. It just...makes them seem more human. XD For instance, they both named a place "Ettinsmoor", although Tolkien spelled it "Ettinsmuir," because Tolkien...

some standards are impossible for certain people, too. over the years, people have said that if you don't hand write your story first, it won't be real somehow. my vision issues mean that handwriting is almost impossible for me. when I mention that, it's just sort of met with a shrug and then the person continues to tell others to handwrite everything.

Yes! Ugh, I hate that. It just means that it works for them, and for how their brain works. It will not necessarily hold true for everyone! Also, everyone is good at different aspects of story creation. I SUCK at coming up with plot. I HAVE to write to figure it out. So somebody telling me to outline everything in advance would (and did) royally screw up my ability to get anything done. Might as well tell me to hand write the novel.

(Which I can't do because tendonitis. I haven't been able to bend my right thumb in 5 years...)

(I mean, it's stable, and not painful, but hand writing a lengthy document is the surest way to make it flare up again and injure myself further...so no...not happening...)

Morning, Cantina. I think...maybe...my editing of my Snow White retelling might be finished today!

Yay! :-D

Lewis didn't make any mistakes!! I'll defend those books to the death. ;)

Oh I totally agree! Hence the quotes, because I don't think they're mistakes at all. I think they're beautifully written!

The only real rule about writing is that it has to work. Guidelines exist to help new writers, because some techniques or styles are much harder to pull off well. It's like they're saying to stick to the shallow water and practice there before you try swimming in the ocean. That doesn't mean no one should ever swim in the ocean, just that you're in for a really rough time if you try to start out there.

Agreed. I wish they would teach this properly in schools. They make you read so many dull stories in school where the author broke the mold creatively, but they never actually teach you how to write. Or maybe I was just an idiot teenager, but the end result was that when I first started writing I set out to break every single rule I could think of without bothering to learn how to follow them in the first place. Even punctuation. The end result was...cringey even by cringey standards of horrible-ness.

Those general rules USUALLY work, but the talented can break them and be brilliant.

Talent only plays a part in it. I feel like if you practice enough, no matter your initial skill level, you can do the things that "talented" people can do. It may just take you longer, but you can do it. Then once the rule feels comfortable like an old glove, you can proceed to take it apart and add pegasus wings and an alicorn...

Write what you love, with passion and craft. The rest will come.

This. In the end, you can drown in all the rules, but I found that the way to get started without going insane is simply to do what you do...then look at it, see what you don't like, and then figure out how to do what you do better.

Ali that's great news! Yay!