Can I get away with injecting real life politics into a Young Adult paranormal romance?

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crossword

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I know that isn’t the norm. YA PNR is more about the romance and the paranormal stuff than any politics. but I wanted to show an interesting instance of my heroine teleporting, so I wrote the scene below.

It’s meant to entertain. Probably I will have no more scenes dealing with Trump or American politics.
Can I get away with including this one scene below in my novel?
I worry because since its a clean romance, with no sex and minimal bad language, it attracts Christian beta readers and I would guess many are Conservatives. I’m unsure what they will feel about my making fun of Trump. I don't think I was too hard on him, but they might not like fun being made of him at all? Though actually I get the impression they are well aware of how funny he is and how funny his utterances are. I think they’ll be able to take a joke. I hope so anyway.
I paste it below so you can best judge how it would sound to have this scene in a Young Adult paranormal romance that really isnt about US politics, except that I might make my characters make some jokey references:



Chapter Two
THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CLOTHES
The best thing about teleporting is the reduced carbon footprint. The worst thing is the naked presidents.
It wasn’t my fault. “To the White House!” I willed. And my will was done.
The décor was impressive; the people were not. I expected West Wing; House of Cards; Scandal.
I got a yawnathon. No wonder women like the strong, silent type. The less men speak, the smarter they sound.
“Take me to where the action is,” I ordered myself.
And I found myself in the Presidential Bathroom. I assumed there was more than one, but this was the one that contained the Great Man himself.
His back to me, he leaned over his bathtub and dipped a finger into the water.
So he didn't have a flunkey to test his bathwater temperature? How plebeian. How forty-seven percent.
But I’m friendly to all, both high and low. “Hi! How’s it hangin’?”
He gave a strangled cry and spun around. His towel slipped off. I modestly averted my gaze, but not before noticing he had small hands.
I looked around, but he didn't seem to own a bathrobe.
I tried again. “Happy Bath Day, Mr. President. Been a rough year, huh? Are the Germs and French fries still on your case?”
Now what could be more sympathetic than that? But he just gurgled and gawked. Maybe he thought it a stupid question. Obviously the whole world was on his case.
“India seems to like you,” I tried to offer consolation. “Speaking of which, did you hear about the young American who went to India to find a guru? The one he found said, ‘No, it’s no use asking ME any questions. I too am an American who came to India fifty years ago to discover the meaning of life.’”
He kept burbling like a toilet with an empty cistern trying to flush. So much for humor lubricating a tight situation.
How disappointing. Where was the chutzpah and repartee? Was he all tweet, no cattle?
“I bring a message from a higher power.” I pointed upward, trusting he knew I meant heaven and not his wife’s boudoir. “Beware the Russians!”
He went a weird shade of orange-green, grabbed some device beside the bathtub, and pressed a button. “Security!” he bellowed.

How insulting. I thought he liked pretty girls. Had Kathy Griffin spoiled all redheads for him?
I vamoosed. Okay, so maybe it WAS all my fault. In my defense, I’d JUST come into my powers. Even Supergirl had a learning curve.
I kept checking his Twitter feed for days afterwards, but found no tweet about the incident. This was not a transparent administration at all.
 

Cyia

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Honestly, I didn't read your piece. This is just a quick warning about using real, living people in your work. You can very easily toe (or cross) the line of slander. You also have the issue of what happens if a person's name and likeness are trademarked. Reporting on a public figure in a journalistic sense is one thing, but profiting from fiction with them in it is another. The first is protected; the second, not so much. There's some wiggle room with satire, but that's not exactly a defined line. A judge would have to set the boundary if the person whose name you're using objects.
 

katiemac

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In addition to what Cyia says, you also have to consider that it could very quickly date your book.
 

frimble3

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In addition to what Cyia says, you also have to consider that it could very quickly date your book.
Seconding katiemac about dating a book. Also, delete the words 'small hands', 'tweeting', and changing up 'Kathy Griffin' for some other redhead, and there's nothing to make this particularly about Trump. It could, in fact, be just as funny with Bill Clinton, or any other president. (Possibly funnier with Bill Clinton: "Why, hello, darlin'. Where did you come from?") And, leaving it more 'open' might be the way to go.

Also, perhaps even more dating than a specific president is using 'West Wing, House of Cards and Scandal' as examples. To a YA readership 'West Wing' is some TV show from the olden days. By the time your book is published, House of Cards and Scandal will doubtless have gone the same way. Try something more generic? "Where was the intrigue, the deal-making, the politicking?"
 
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jennontheisland

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If the purpose of the scene is "an interesting instance of my heroine teleporting" why are you choosing politics? There are all kinds of interesting teleportation options and you chose that? And how old is your heroine? And why is she so aware of which country likes and doesn't like him? Unless this kid is all over politics in the rest of the story, this seems pretty non-sequitur and more than a bit of a darling you need to kill. Fast.
 

crossword

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Thanks a lot, everyone. Years ago a couple of people wrote romances featuring Princess Diana and a fictional lover. And someone wrote a novel where Prince William met an American in college and fell in love with her and married her.




So I assumed as long as they were Royals or even world leaders, they were fair game. Because these people are public figures who don't sell their images. Whereas actors and singers sell their images via endorsements, so we can’t use THEM.




Am I wrong?



Anyway frimble gave me the idea of substituting someone else for Trump. I rewrote the thing to be about the King of England in an alt universe. Yes there are references that will remind people of Trump but they could as well apply to this fictional king. Yes they’re meant to be recognized as jokes about Trump but, hey the king could be like him without my ever mentioning his name.




So this is a different heroine narrating. Since she has visited our universe, she can make references to our pop culture. she’s from India and once she gets her powers she decides to appear to the Brits who colonize India to frighten them out of the lands they’ve invaded.



So how does this sound:



Chapter Two
THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES
The best thing about teleporting is the reduced carbon footprint. The worst thing is the naked kings.
It wasn’t my fault. “To Ruttingham Palace!” I willed. And my will was done.
The décor was impressive; the people were not. I expected wit and charm; I got a yappy yawnathon. No wonder women like the strong, silent type. The less men speak, the smarter they sound.
“Take me to where the action is,” I ordered myself.
And I found myself in the Majestic Bathroom. I assumed there was more than one, but this was the one that contained the Great Man himself.
His back to me, he leaned over his bathtub and dipped a finger into the water.
So he didn't have a flunkey to test his bathwater temperature? How plebeian. How forty-seven percent.
But I’m friendly to all, both high and low. “Hi! How’s it hangin’?”
He gave a strangled cry and spun around. His towel slipped off. I modestly averted my gaze, but not before noticing he had small hands.
I looked around, but he didn't seem to own a bathrobe.
I tried again. “Happy Bath Day, Your Majesty. Been a rough year, huh? Are the Ruskies and Huns still being a pain?”
Now what could be more sympathetic than that? But he just gurgled and gawked. Maybe he thought it a stupid question. When you were King of the World, the whole world was a PITA. Uneasy lies the head that can be chopped off at any minute by a disgruntled populace.
“You’ve got all the non-white countries nicely under your heel,” I reminded him. “Speaking of which, did you hear about the young American who went to India to find a guru? The one he found said, ‘No, it’s no use asking ME any questions. I too am an American who came to India fifty years ago to discover the meaning of life.’”
He kept burbling like a toilet with an empty cistern trying to flush. So much for humor lubricating a tight situation.
How disappointing. Where was the chutzpah and repartee? Was he all tweet, no cattle?
“I bring a message from a higher power.” I pointed upward, trusting he knew I meant heaven and not his wife’s boudoir. “Colonization is evil. Leave every country you have crucified--I mean--colonized or suffer the consequences!”
He went a weird shade of orange-green, grabbed some device beside the bathtub, and pressed a button. “Security!” he bellowed.
How insulting. I thought he liked pretty girls. Had Mary, Queen of Scots, spoiled all redheads for him? Good thing he’d never met Sarah Ferguson.

I vamoosed. Okay, so maybe it WAS all my fault. In my defense, I’d JUST come into my powers. Even Supergirl had a learning curve.
I kept checking the papers for days afterwards, but found no mention of the incident. This was not a transparent monarchy at all.



Later she appears to his son, the Crown Prince. The conversation would go:



He staggered back. “Who--who are you?”
“I’m your conscience.”
He started to recover and eyed me oddly. “Are you sure? I didn't think I had one.”
“You have one, even if it’s tinier than most people’s. I’ve come to help with that. I’m here to tell you what you’re doing wrong.”
He groaned. “Must you? I already have a mother. And why do you think I’m avoiding taking a wife?”



he assumes its one of his aristocratic pals playing a trick, which is why he’s initially jokey about it.



It struck me that if you’re in an alt universe where the Brits still colonize, and if you have the power to teleport, the best thing to do would be to keep appearing out of thin air not only to the authorities but also to the general populace. Pretend you’re an angel or some messenger of God sent to tell them how wrong colonization is.



Gandhi quoted from the Bible to make his points to the Christian west. Heck, my heroine could do the same. New Testament, obviously. The old one endorses slavery, etc, so that would not work.
 

cornflake

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Thanks a lot, everyone. Years ago a couple of people wrote romances featuring Princess Diana and a fictional lover. I know of one, which was clearly satire, and even then they took a flier doing it. I'm not saying there weren't others, but I never heard of any.

And someone wrote a novel where Prince William met an American in college and fell in love with her and married her. Sorry, I'm doubtful that passed muster. Do you know the title of that? There's a J&H YA that was a take on William and Kate, but it certainly wasn't actually them.


So I assumed as long as they were Royals or even world leaders, they were fair game. Because these people are public figures who don't sell their images. Whereas actors and singers sell their images via endorsements, so we can’t use THEM.

Am I wrong?

Yes. You can't use real people, because those people can sue you for various things. Someone famous (anyone famous) can sue you for defamation, damages, etc., if you use them as characters in your story. If you put real people in your fictional world and make them say or do things besides exist, you can be in a heap of legal trouble. What if, in your scenario, you used an actor who never did endorsements, would that be ok? It's got nothing to do with it. Don't use real people as characters.

If they simply exist -- like your character says she went to a rally and saw Trump, that's fine. The minute you put words in his mouth or make him do things, it's not fine.

Non-famous people can sue you for defamation, damages, and things relating to your invasion of their privacy, if you do the same with them.




Anyway frimble gave me the idea of substituting someone else for Trump. I rewrote the thing to be about the King of England in an alt universe. Yes there are references that will remind people of Trump but they could as well apply to this fictional king. Yes they’re meant to be recognized as jokes about Trump but, hey the king could be like him without my ever mentioning his name.




So this is a different heroine narrating. Since she has visited our universe, she can make references to our pop culture. she’s from India and once she gets her powers she decides to appear to the Brits who colonize India to frighten them out of the lands they’ve invaded.



So how does this sound:



Chapter Two
THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES
The best thing about teleporting is the reduced carbon footprint. The worst thing is the naked kings.
It wasn’t my fault. “To Ruttingham Palace!” I willed. And my will was done.
The décor was impressive; the people were not. I expected wit and charm; I got a yappy yawnathon. No wonder women like the strong, silent type. The less men speak, the smarter they sound.
“Take me to where the action is,” I ordered myself.
And I found myself in the Majestic Bathroom. I assumed there was more than one, but this was the one that contained the Great Man himself.
His back to me, he leaned over his bathtub and dipped a finger into the water.
So he didn't have a flunkey to test his bathwater temperature? How plebeian. How forty-seven percent.
But I’m friendly to all, both high and low. “Hi! How’s it hangin’?”
He gave a strangled cry and spun around. His towel slipped off. I modestly averted my gaze, but not before noticing he had small hands.
I looked around, but he didn't seem to own a bathrobe.
I tried again. “Happy Bath Day, Your Majesty. Been a rough year, huh? Are the Ruskies and Huns still being a pain?”
Now what could be more sympathetic than that? But he just gurgled and gawked. Maybe he thought it a stupid question. When you were King of the World, the whole world was a PITA. Uneasy lies the head that can be chopped off at any minute by a disgruntled populace.
“You’ve got all the non-white countries nicely under your heel,” I reminded him. “Speaking of which, did you hear about the young American who went to India to find a guru? The one he found said, ‘No, it’s no use asking ME any questions. I too am an American who came to India fifty years ago to discover the meaning of life.’”
He kept burbling like a toilet with an empty cistern trying to flush. So much for humor lubricating a tight situation.
How disappointing. Where was the chutzpah and repartee? Was he all tweet, no cattle?
“I bring a message from a higher power.” I pointed upward, trusting he knew I meant heaven and not his wife’s boudoir. “Colonization is evil. Leave every country you have crucified--I mean--colonized or suffer the consequences!”
He went a weird shade of orange-green, grabbed some device beside the bathtub, and pressed a button. “Security!” he bellowed.
How insulting. I thought he liked pretty girls. Had Mary, Queen of Scots, spoiled all redheads for him? Good thing he’d never met Sarah Ferguson.

I vamoosed. Okay, so maybe it WAS all my fault. In my defense, I’d JUST come into my powers. Even Supergirl had a learning curve.
I kept checking the papers for days afterwards, but found no mention of the incident. This was not a transparent monarchy at all.



Later she appears to his son, the Crown Prince. The conversation would go:



He staggered back. “Who--who are you?”
“I’m your conscience.”
He started to recover and eyed me oddly. “Are you sure? I didn't think I had one.”
“You have one, even if it’s tinier than most people’s. I’ve come to help with that. I’m here to tell you what you’re doing wrong.”
He groaned. “Must you? I already have a mother. And why do you think I’m avoiding taking a wife?”



he assumes its one of his aristocratic pals playing a trick, which is why he’s initially jokey about it.



It struck me that if you’re in an alt universe where the Brits still colonize, and if you have the power to teleport, the best thing to do would be to keep appearing out of thin air not only to the authorities but also to the general populace. Pretend you’re an angel or some messenger of God sent to tell them how wrong colonization is.



Gandhi quoted from the Bible to make his points to the Christian west. Heck, my heroine could do the same. New Testament, obviously. The old one endorses slavery, etc, so that would not work.

.
 

crossword

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I googled and searched on Amazon but now I cant find the book where Prince William met an American in college and fell in love with her and married her. I know I read reviews of it on Amazon years ago, before he married Kate. But I did find this what if Diana had lived story:


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0074QLL5G/?tag=absowrit-20
 

cornflake

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She was dead -- you can't defame the dead.

I'm guessing you're thinking of the Heather and Jessica thing, The Royal We, which is not about Prince William, because see above.
 

Sage

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So how does this sound:

Crossword, I know you know better than to post excerpts for criticism outside of SYW. Feel free to use specifics to your book in your question, but don't quote your writing and ask for feedback.
 

crossword

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I was NOT thinking of The Royal We. I didn't imagine it; I know I read reviews of a book on Amazon or somewhere where they featured the real William with an american he met in college. I think she was called Emily. The story had them get married, then he got angry and accused her of deliberately getting pregnant or something.

Moreover, James Hewitt wrote Princess in Love and later Diana said he’d just made up a lot of stuff about their relationship and it didnt happen as he’d written.
if the rule is you cant defame the dead, dos that mean i can feature Kim Kardashian as long as she is dead? i very much doubt it cos i bet her family would still use her name as a money maker.
 

Cyia

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So I assumed as long as they were Royals or even world leaders, they were fair game. Because these people are public figures who don't sell their images. Whereas actors and singers sell their images via endorsements, so we can’t use THEM.




Am I wrong?

The Trump name is trademarked to the gills. That's why he can slap it on his buildings.

And, again, Princess Diana is deceased, so can't be slandered. A living person *can* be. This is why "real person fanfic" (basically what you'd have here) is forbidden even on most fanfiction hosting sites.

You aren't allowed to profit from the use of a living person's name or likeness.

Your character might mention or crack a joke about a white house tour, or a picture in the paper, or even a speech publicly given at the inauguration, but you can't insert the actual man into your fiction as more than a background touchstone to set the time and place.
 

crossword

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like I said, in the second version I replaced the US president with a fictional UK king. Why is that not acceptable? Can I not joke about small hands, etc as long as I don't mention Trump?
 

Marissa D

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Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds more like you're in love with the idea of doing this, rather than wanting to do it because it advances your story or provides insight into your characters. Is it really, truly vital to the development of your story, or is it just something you want to do because it amuses you? As someone said above, it's sounding more like a darling that needs to be killed. But it's your story, so :Shrug:
 

cornflake

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I was NOT thinking of The Royal We. I didn't imagine it; I know I read reviews of a book on Amazon or somewhere where they featured the real William with an american he met in college. I think she was called Emily. The story had them get married, then he got angry and accused her of deliberately getting pregnant or something.

Moreover, James Hewitt wrote Princess in Love and later Diana said he’d just made up a lot of stuff about their relationship and it didnt happen as he’d written.
if the rule is you cant defame the dead, dos that mean i can feature Kim Kardashian as long as she is dead? i very much doubt it cos i bet her family would still use her name as a money maker.

Like I said, I dunno, but I can't imagine a publishing house taking that risk, especially with the plotline you're now describing. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Hewitt was not writing fiction. He was writing, ostensibly, about his own life. She disputed his version of events. If she wanted to go to court and claim he'd wholesale lied and defamed her, she could have, but she'd have had to prove what was actually true about their relationship, which, I'm guessing, she would not have been willing to do.

Yeah, you have a decent legal case if you're defaming someone dead. Her name is trademarked though, which is a whole other deal, that does not end with her death, and they can bring suit even if they don't have a chance of winning a defamation one.

However, putting a living person in your fiction and having the person say or do things is absolutely grounds for a losing lawsuit on your part, famous or not, royal, political, etc.
 

jennontheisland

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Kill. Your. Darling.

Or, ignore absolutely everyone in this thread and leave it in. Your choice. But if you're going to ask for advice, you might consider actually taking it.
 
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crossword

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i’m happy to take advice, but it feels to me as if everyone is responding to my original post instead of to what I later posted. Obviously I did take advice, otherwise I would not have changed the original and posted another version.


like I said, in the second version I replaced the US president with a fictional UK king. Why is that not acceptable? Can I not joke about small hands, etc as long as I don't mention Trump?


So is the second version acceptable or not? If not, why not?


i’m waiting anxiously for your replies. Thanks!
 

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I was NOT thinking of The Royal We. I didn't imagine it; I know I read reviews of a book on Amazon or somewhere where they featured the real William with an american he met in college. I think she was called Emily. The story had them get married, then he got angry and accused her of deliberately getting pregnant or something.

Yes, your example about William and Emily does exist. (A five second google search found it; maybe try that yourself next time if you're trying to convince people about the existence of a particular book.) But no reputable publisher is going to have a bar of it. The legal ramifications are a minefield. If the author wants to take the chance and self publish, they can. There may well never be repercussions -- because the book will never sell enough copies to hit anyone's radar and, like the above example, will have an Amazon sales rank of 7,925,693.
 

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like I said, in the second version I replaced the US president with a fictional UK king. Why is that not acceptable? Can I not joke about small hands, etc as long as I don't mention Trump?


So is the second version acceptable or not? If not, why not?


i’m waiting anxiously for your replies. Thanks!

Several people have noted that defamation laws exist, although both the laws and the implementation of them will vary from country to country. It's a grey area. If an author wants to dip a toe into this category, then the author needs to take the time to inform themself about the legalities of their own particular situation.

We cannot give definitive legal advice -- and if we did, it'd be foolish to trust us.

Editing to add: We are answering general questions along the lines of "can I feature POTUS DJT in my novel". We are not reading and commenging on the minutae in various versions of your scene, because this is not the place for that. Share Your Work is the place for that.
 
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So is the second version acceptable or not? If not, why not?


i’m waiting anxiously for your replies. Thanks!
As pointed out above by your friendly neighborhood moderator, this is not the appropriate place to ask for feedback on excerpts.

Thread closed after OP ignored multiple requests to remove excerpts.
 
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