When, while querying agents, do you reevaluate your query?

Fiender

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I was just wondering at what point, assuming your queries aren't getting request for partials/fulls, do you take another look at your query and change it? How many no-request rejections would it take for you?

I know getting an agent can take 100+ queries, and that the reasons for rejection can span from "critical problem with query" to "stars just didn't align", but I think it could be an interesting topic to discuss. Personally, I was kind of eyeing the 20 rejection-without-request mark before I took a step back and really tried to shake things up.

Also, sorry if wrong forum. Wasn't sure where to put this; felt like more of an ask-other-writers thing than an ask-agents thing. *shrug*.

UPDATE:
SO, it's been a hot minute since I posted this. I had 8 rejections at the time and I waited until the 15 response mark (all rejections, all either form or so impersonal I assumed they were form) before I reevaluated my query and sample chapters. Fast forward one year. I'd completed significant revisions on the book and query and started submitting again this July. Now, in November, I've racked up another 20 rejections/no responses. I've had a single full request. I'm wondering again what I might be doing wrong, and whether I should take another step back.

My query letter has been through several look-throughs in Query Letter Hell, and I'd put my opening chapters under special scrutiny (posting chapter one in SYW, with quite a few Beta Readers afterwards). My queries consist of: Dear agent name (I don't use honorifics out of fear of calling a miss a misses), query, book title and genre, with a personalized sometimes added if I saw something in the agent's bio that I felt would spark specific interest in my MS.

I'd read that getting right into the query and avoiding "Dear Agent, I'm seeking representation for my book" is preferable because, obviously I am seeking represntation. Is this actually unprofessional and a turn-off for some agents? I guess I'm looking for any guidance and suggestions people have! This is only the second book I've queried for, and I didn't have enough confidence in the first project to shop it around for so long (I was 16. Enough said I think.)

Also, am I just being paranoid? :p
 
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Fiender

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I definitely ran the QLH gauntlet for quite a while! I eventually came up with something that people said was solid. Of course, everything can be looked at again and tweaked. Though without personalized feedback in the rejections I receive, I don't know what changes I might make.
 

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Do you send sample pages with the query (could the fault be with them)?
 

Fiender

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Do you send sample pages with the query (could the fault be with them)?

I go with whatever the agent's guidelines are. If they ask for sample pages, I send pages. Some agents also ask for a synopsis which could also be part of the problem. I suppose, without feedback, it's hard to say what might be the main roadblock in my submissions to getting at least a partial. All things to take a look at of course, if rejections continue like they are now.
 

Fiender

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I know it's early in my search, but this is actually an area I don't see discussed much, if ever. I'm still curious how other people have approached the 'mid-search revisions'.

Personally, I'm at 15 queries sent, 7 actual rejections and 3 "no response in reported response time on agent's website". I have 5 unanswered queries out at any time.
No requests for partials, pretty much all form rejections (as far as I can tell), with no comments about the query or writing samples included.
Most of the agents I've queried requested sample pages/chapters, so naturally most of the rejections come from queries that had samples attached.
Most of them also requested a synopsis, which I did include. I have a couple different versions, depending on the length (1 page vs. 2 page) that the agent requests.

I ran my query letter itself through the SYW gauntlet until the vast majority of comments were positive. I've also had a great many beta readers look at the book itself. The synopsis, I didn't have anyone look at (which may have been a mistake) but I did write them using several guidelines found on AW and abroad.
 

mafiaking1936

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I feel your pain, I'm at 55+ with all rejections. The only thing I can advise is to be wary of tweak fatigue- you can make so many little changes to try and please more and more people you end up with a chopped and stitched Frankenstein's Query that pleases no one. What is this story about? Why should it matter to me? Keep those concerns at the fore, and all those tricks and techniques and teaks should serve the goal of communicating that.
 

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I wouldn't change JUST yet. That seems pretty early in the game. With agents receiving so many queries daily, it's often just a "not quite my taste" thing.
 

gbondoni

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Regarding the synopsis, I wouldn't worry too much about that (although having someone look at it might be a good idea). My own experience is that if the query letter is in a decent place (yours sounds like it's pretty good), the sample is what makes or breaks the initial submission. The reason I think so is because my synopsis is not great, barely adequate, but I'm getting requests for more on the strength of a strong first few pages. On a different book, the problem was (hopefully) in the query letter (I won't know until the letter itself is in good shape), so that one is in QLH as we speak...
 

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A decent query should get a 1:10 request:query ratio. But there's no way to say if it's your query or pages failing you if most of them have pages included.
 

CJSimone

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I was just wondering at what point, assuming your queries aren't getting request for partials/fulls, do you take another look at your query and change it? How many no-request rejections would it take for you?

I know getting an agent can take 100+ queries, and that the reasons for rejection can span from "critical problem with query" to "stars just didn't align", but I think it could be an interesting topic to discuss. Personally, I was kind of eyeing the 20 rejection-without-request mark before I took a step back and really tried to shake things up.

Also, sorry if wrong forum. Wasn't sure where to put this; felt like more of an ask-other-writers thing than an ask-agents thing. *shrug*.

Hi Fiender. IMO, it's still early yet to be discouraged. Fifteen isn't many and it's all so subjective.

I know you've had betas (and your query letter in QLH), but maybe put your opening chapter in SYW?

Hope it all works out!

CJ
 

Fiender

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Thanks for the comments everyone! ^_^

@CJSimone, it has actually been quite a while since I posted the first chapter up for critique so I'm going to do that, see if there are any red flags or quirks in my writing that could drive an agent away.

But after two months of querying, I'm still "only" at 8 responses (rejections). Definitely not panicking so much as I am very slightly worried. :)
Also, it occurs to me that there is a subforum here called "Rejections and Dejections" that I forgot existed before I posted this topic. Oh well. :x
 

Fiender

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It's been a year and I've kept at it. My situation hasn't changed much so I could use some more guidance and discussion on this topic. I've added the latest details of my querying experience in the first post.
 

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Hi Fiender,

I remember when you were looking for betas and believe that you have done all the 'right things.' Two questions;

1. Is it possible some thematic element of your work is hard to market? I ask because I'm in a similar situation to you query-wise. I'm modifying pages now to try to address what might be the hurdle in my efforts--climate change thematic elements. Agents might feel it is not escapist, won't sell.

2. Have you checked out fifteen or twenty new titles at the library in your genre and analyzed the opening chapter? I ask because this was useful to me--I was able to spot common approaches and when I applied these to my work, people in writer's club responded positively.
 
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Fiender

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Hi Fiender,

I remember when you were looking for betas and believe that you have done all the 'right things.' Two questions;

1. Is it possible some thematic element of your work is hard to market? I ask because I'm in a similar situation to you query-wise. I'm modifying pages now to try to address what might be the hurdle in my efforts--climate change thematic elements. Agents might feel it is not escapist, won't sell.

2. Have you checked out fifteen or twenty new titles at the library in your genre and analyzed the opening chapter? I ask because this was useful to me--I was able to spot common approaches and when I applied these to my work, people in writer's club responded positively.

Hello!

For 1, I don't believe there's anything inherently controversial or unmarketable with my book. Nothing graphic or 'political' like climate change, certainly not in the sample chapters I've sent.
And for 2, I haven't thought to do that. It's something I'm going to try out though!
 

Woollybear

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By all means do. Look at everything from the 'tricks' published authors use in the openings, to the balance of narration, dialog, and action. I hope it is helpful.
 

Woodpig

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Hi Fiender,

I agree with Gbondoni: it's all about the sample. While I guess making your query stand out in a positive way might be a good thing, the best it can actually achieve is that the agent in question is a little more eager to look at your work. However, all agents who are open to submissions and behave professionally will do that anyway, so don't agonise over the query. Make it professional and brief. If the agent in question wants you to highlight something in the query (e.g. give an elevator pitch, tell them how your book will stand out, compare it to others on the market - whatever), then do that. But really the query is just to give basic info. So, be polite, give some indication that you've researched the agent (use their real name, perhaps mention what drew you to them), a brief pitch, maybe something about yourself (if relevant), and that's it. But you'll have been through all of this already, so I'd say as long as the query hits those points, don't sweat it. The best you can aim for is not to turn anyone off.

The same for the synopsis. Synopses are not easy to write, not fun to read, and some agents don't even bother - at least, not until they've read the sample material. All a synopsis does is give an indication of what the plot is, and makes it easier to spot holes or clichés. So, if you've done a basically sound job, then any problem with your synopsis is actually more likely a problem with your plot/story (if you see what I mean).

So, as I say, it all comes down to the sample. Without reading or finding out more about your book, it's difficult to say what the issue might be. Trying to get a novel published is an extremely difficult and competitive endeavour. Not only are you up against every person who thinks they might have a book inside them, but you somehow have to stand out in a marketplace that (it seems to me) is increasingly commercially minded and conservative. Your book may be interesting and entertaining, but simply not marketable enough, too long, too short, unfashionable, etc. Without more detailed feedback, how are you to know? It seems to me you're doing the right thing in getting beta readers/writers groups to look at it, but this may not be enough. After all, most of these people will not be looking at it from an agent's point of view. It's an expensive option, but have you thought about getting some professional editorial feedback? Some agents actually offer this service.

However, I feel your pain! I currently have something out on submission. If it strikes out with the first round, then I may go the editorial route. Or, I may just shelve it and move on to something else. Or maybe even self-publish (just to get the thing out of my head and allow me to move on). But meaningful feedback is the way, I think.

Anyway, just my thoughts - good luck and don't give up!