Fear of fans?

Cekrit

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I had my first run in with a fan this weekend. Honestly, I'm not sure how I felt about it. We were at a party that I was throwing, so it was in the comfort of my own home. Admittedly I was beyond intoxicated at that point, but a good friends girlfriend had shown up with my book in hand and was so ready to talk about it.

Which was sweet and awesome. I wasn't prepared, but I mean, I wrote it, its not like I needed notes to keep up.

I was proud, at first, but then she started trying to pick apart what she thought as plot holes.

For instance. There is a scene where my MC is in an abandoned city and she walks past, or into a cinema rather, and the lights are on. How are lights on when there is no power in the city?

Now this conversation stemmed into my friend and his girlfriend delving into how that's a plot hole and how I shouldn't feel bad for missing it and how an editor would catch that but I should note it and exploit it in later books.

Drunk me went through an "oh my god how did I miss that" moment...but then I remembered, wait, man, you're kind of good at this- trust yourself.


My response was, "Did you finish the chapter?"

"No"

"Well finish the chapter."

She then took the book and sat down in the party and ignored everyone else and literally the next page she stood up and said, " WOW, itmakes so much sense why that was happening now."

Cool, be humble. But I was still a little annoyed that I was being doubted by someone who had just needed to turn the page to get their answer rather than trying to pick me apart at a social event I was throwing.

Is that normal?

She did, however, makeup for it by talking about my prologue and how my MC is never given a gender until halfway through Chapter 1 and how amazing she thought it was that I made a point to have a gender less prologue given the big gender debate sweeping our society.

I mean really I just don't think that someone being hunted gives a rats ass about if they are male or female, they are an animal and animals want to survive.

But she applauded it as this social justice toward the struggle, which felt nice that people can read into things like that.


I guess, it just really all set in for me that the public will think of things I never imagined were in my work, and I need to be prepared for that.

How do you mitigate reader doubt, or someone trying to pick apart something you later explain?
 
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Cekrit

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It also makes me really nervous about if the novel reaches a mass scale, movie status, and the responsibility of that. After everyone left I sat down and honestly debated pulling the book and re-writing, which was a rash thought- I know, there's not much wrong in my opinion with my current MS. I just want to make the next book so much better and please everyone!
 

WeaselFire

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If you think that makes you nervous of fans, try writing erotica and then meeting your fan club. :)

Never get in a discussion while drunk (better just to never get drunk) and always tell your fans to send you a review when they finish the book so they can help make your next one better.

Jeff
 

shortstorymachinist

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Probably the first move is to stop thinking of people who have read your book as 'fans' and think of them as readers.

How would that change in mindset help? And besides that, they can be both can't they? Someone who read OP's book and liked it would be considered a fan IMO. And while liking the book is not a requirement for engaging OP in a discussion about it, I think OP's question was pretty clear: How do you handle people who are fond enough of your book that they come up to you and try to discuss it in a way that makes you uncomfortable?

To answer your question, Cekrit, I'd just say that like with most things in life, you don't owe anything to anyone. If they think they've caught you in some mistake and they haven't, I'd just politely nod, or do what you did if you think they're open to that kind of directing. And if they did catch a mistake, and they're not being a condescending, pedantic jerk, then good for them. As writers we're always improving, hopefully, so mistakes aren't shameful assuming it wasn't one made out of laziness. Anyway, that's my take on it.
 

Cekrit

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If you think that makes you nervous of fans, try writing erotica and then meeting your fan club. :)

Never get in a discussion while drunk (better just to never get drunk) and always tell your fans to send you a review when they finish the book so they can help make your next one better.

Jeff

I feel you on that, which I'm glad I had the state of mind to be simple and trust the work rather than going on a rant essentially defending myself with " well, you should read it" and leaving it at that. It was a friendly event, no one I'm generally uncomfortable with, just a new experience.

And I couldn't imagine sharing erotica! That's different entirely. Way more nerve wracking.
 

Aggy B.

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So, this weekend, I had a fellow who bought three of the little books I had for sale. He refused to accept a discount and also wanted to know where he could leave reviews. He stressed that he would leave a good review because authors put a lot of work into what they publish and he didn't feel right crapping on it. I thanked him, but also tried to assure him that I would not be upset with an honest review, even if it wasn't 100% positive.

Different readers see different things or have different expectations. Some are "fans" (an abbreviation of the word fanatic) and once they find someone they like as an author will follow through many twists and turns that might throw folks who are new to the authors work. It is possible to be both a fan and also analytical. Some folks worry that something that bothers them might have been something the author didn't catch (as in your example) and when they mention it, it's more of an attempt to support your writing than an attempt to bust your balls.

I have a friend who is a much more experienced writer than I, but I still give him a hard time (between the two of us) over the fade-to-black sex scenes in his books. Because I know him, and I find it a little frustrating that other adult material (including some scenes of intense violence) are okay, but sex is somehow shied away from. But once, as I was discussing this issue with him, another friend of his walked up and heard me criticizing the double standard and she snapped "If you think you could do it better, maybe you should be a writer yourself." (At which point my author friend was quick to assure her I was, also, an author and approaching it as a matter of craft.)

People will say all sorts of things to you about your books, your writing, your skill, etc. Sometimes they are wrong and you just have to prompt them to finish the story or reread. Sometimes you will have screwed something up and will either have to fix it later or accept and own your mistakes. You are not always right. Neither are your fans. But it's not always ill-intent on their part, but sometimes just an attempt to interact with someone they admire (and are therefore looking for some foot in the door to talk about something they are enjoying).
 

Fruitbat

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I think someone ambushing you at a party with unrequested literary criticism was rather obnoxious, though seemingly well meant. But of course people will do what they do... Personally, I write under pen names to keep my privacy as much as possible.

I agree that you don't have to have any conversations you don't feel like having, whether about your writing or anything else. It might help to come up with a ready made strategy to politely cut people off when they start to get too intrusive or otherwise annoying. Maybe just smile and say "Excuse me" or "Thanks for your thoughts," then disengage by moving on to something/someone else. :/
 
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Helix

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How would that change in mindset help? And besides that, they can be both can't they? Someone who read OP's book and liked it would be considered a fan IMO. And while liking the book is not a requirement for engaging OP in a discussion about it, I think OP's question was pretty clear: How do you handle people who are fond enough of your book that they come up to you and try to discuss it in a way that makes you uncomfortable?

Not everybody who reads a book is a fan(atic) of that book. It's presumptuous to think that a reader/any reader/every reader is necessarily fond of your work just because they want to talk to you about it. All it means is they've read it. Or some of it.

'Fan' is a distancing and -- ymmv -- patronising term. Readers are perfectly capable of having conversations about books they've read without being fans of the work, the author or its characters.
 

noirdood

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I read a hockey goalie's description of what happens when he makes a mistake. He said when that happens 40,000 spectators jump to their feet and boo him.
Compared to him, methinks, you don't have much to gripe about.
 

mccardey

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How would that change in mindset help? And besides that, they can be both can't they? Someone who read OP's book and liked it would be considered a fan IMO.
Would they? And a fan of what, exactly? The book or the writer? If the first - I'd have thought that someone who read OP's book and liked it was just a reader who liked a book. Which is great, but I don't think it meets the definition of fandom. It's too much of a one-off and doesn't guarantee they'll like the next book.

If the second - if it means they're a fan of the writer, rather than just, say, someone who knows they might like to look at the next book by this writer - then it starts to sound a bit overblown and sort of shallow doesn't it? And a bit rife with inappropriate expectations about the need for the writer to write to please that reader. I suppose in some specific communities (fanfic perhaps?) fandom happens - but in general, no. I don't think so.

ETA: Perhaps the issue is that one can call oneself a fan, but a writer is better off referring to readers as readers. (As Cekrit seems to agree in #7)
 
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Jason

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I've got two fans - a gray one in the office and a white one in the bedroom. Neither helps in 100 degree heat much but whatcha gonna do? :D

Ok, in all seriousness though, I agree with the comment above to have a planned strategy when someone confronts you with a conversation outside an appropriate context. The one I've had in the past is that after classes, sometimes students end up at the same pub I visit to grab a beer and unwind (or scotch if it was a long day lol). So I of course greet them happily, but if the conversation starts turning to class content my reply goes something like this:

So, I don't mean to be rude but after class when I'm "off the clock" I just sort of prefer to unplug for a while. Could we talk about literally anything other than work? That usually quells things. But then again I'm a technical trainer so it may be apples and oranges to your situation.
 
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Fruitbat

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I'd consider "readers" and "fans" pretty much interchangeable terms IRL, personally. Here's a little something from Merriam-Webster, though:

Definition of fan
  • 1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator.
  • 2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) science-fiction fans.
Imho, someone who shows up at his party with her very own copy of his book and corners him to discuss it in detail would qualify as "enthusiastic." Hence, I would consider her a fan.
 
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cornflake

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I read a hockey goalie's description of what happens when he makes a mistake. He said when that happens 40,000 spectators jump to their feet and boo him.
Compared to him, methinks, you don't have much to gripe about.

Sorry, can't help it, hockey fan -- that's Jacques Plante, the legendary Hab, and he said, "do you know a lot of jobs where every time you make a mistake, a red light goes off over your head and 15,000 people start booing?"

There's no hockey arena holds 40,000 ppl, just btw. They hold around 14-16k.
 

mccardey

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I'd consider "readers" and "fans" pretty much interchangeable terms, personally. Here's a little something from Merriam Webster, though:

Definition of fan
  • 1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator.
  • 2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) science-fiction fans.
Imho, someone who shows up at his party with her very own copy of his book and corners him to discuss it in detail would qualify as "enthusiastic." Hence, I would consider her a fan.
Enthusiastic, certainly, and yes she might well qualify as a fan since she hadn't read the book. But a reader who had read the book and enjoyed it and wanted to discuss it - would you call that an "enthusiastic devotee", an "ardent admirer"? Those descriptions are somewhat more overblown aren't they? Less involved and weighty than the act of reading would suggest - more like sport spectators or audience members.
 
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cornflake

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I'd consider "readers" and "fans" pretty much interchangeable terms IRL, personally. Here's a little something from Merriam-Webster, though:

Definition of fan
  • 1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator.
  • 2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) science-fiction fans.
Imho, someone who shows up at his party with her very own copy of his book and corners him to discuss it in detail would qualify as "enthusiastic." Hence, I would consider her a fan.

I'm with the duck thing. I don't think reader and fan are at all equatable. I've read tons of stuff I'm not a fan of, and if I was reading something, and either had it with me or someone said 'oh, that writer is going to be at the party,' and I had a question, critical thing, I might bring it up (depending on circumstance). Wouldn't mean I was a fan. If I show up and wait in line for your autograph, I'm a fan.

Everything else? From showing up at a reading to asking about a book to reading a book? Reader unless specified, imo.

Not that they can't overlap -- I have many, many questions for Chris Carter (screenwriter), and if I happened upon him, I'd corner him someplace he couldn't escape and we would discuss the many, many plot holes and confusion he sowed. I'm a big fan though. :)
 

Fruitbat

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Enthusiastic, certainly, and yes she might well qualify as a fan since she hadn't read the book. But a reader who had read the book and enjoyed it wanted to discuss - I would think that carries more weight that the word 'fan' implies. "Enthusiastic devotee" and "ardent admirer" are somewhat more overblown aren't they? Less involved than the act of reading would suggest - more like sport spectators or audience members.

LOL, I dunno. I'd consider her almost weirdly enthusiastic at the time, really. But you are right that she had not finished actually reading the book and I guess that does deserve points off. Clearly, we need a third choice.
 

Albedo

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Would they? And a fan of what, exactly? The book or the writer? If the first - I'd have thought that someone who read OP's book and liked it was just a reader who liked a book. Which is great, but I don't think it meets the definition of fandom. It's too much of a one-off and doesn't guarantee they'll like the next book.

If the second - if it means they're a fan of the writer, rather than just, say, someone who knows they might like to look at the next book by this writer - then it starts to sound a bit overblown and sort of shallow doesn't it? And a bit rife with inappropriate expectations about the need for the writer to write to please that reader. I suppose in some specific communities (fanfic perhaps?) fandom happens - but in general, no. I don't think so.

ETA: Perhaps the issue is that one can call oneself a fan, but a writer is better off referring to readers as readers. (As Cekrit seems to agree in #7)
Probably totally off topic, but I've never particularly liked the word 'fandom' or the implications around it when it comes to literature. I think it's okay to enjoy certain books and writers, and want to write it yourself, without getting heavily involved in the 'scene', if you know what I mean. Yet sometimes I get the sense that unless you've been attending SFF conventions since before you were weaned you're not really part of the community around it, not a TROO fan, and who the hell are you to even express opinions about works, or God forbid think you can write in this genre? I've been to a grand total of one con in my life, and that was one of the big pop cultural expos that was open and welcoming to everyone from casual gawkers like me to full blown anime cosplayers. I can't say I've ever seen a SFF literature convention ever advertised, or made outgoingly welcoming like the big ones are. That's understandable if they're professional gigs, like writer's conventions are in most other genres. But the ones I'm aware of seem to combine an intangible wall of exclusion against casual readers that's mismatched with the 'fannish' scene-ness of their reputations. This may all be a matter of perception, but perception's important.
 

Helix

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I'd consider "readers" and "fans" pretty much interchangeable terms IRL, personally. Here's a little something from Merriam-Webster, though:

Definition of fan
  • 1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator.
  • 2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) science-fiction fans.
Imho, someone who shows up at his party with her very own copy of his book and corners him to discuss it in detail would qualify as "enthusiastic." Hence, I would consider her a fan.

I'd consider them a reader and treat them as an equal, esp. if they were an invitee to a party. I wouldn't think of them as an enthusiastic devotee or ardent admirer, the nouns being the important part of the M-W definitions.
 

Jason

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I was going to edit my prior post, but there's been several replies since, so here's some other food for thought:

Most people get that when you're done with work, you really don't wanna keep working. Doctors must hate it when they go to a party and someone says "Hey doc, I got this cut on my hand the other day - is this healing right?" Or dentists: "This tooth really hurts, can you take a look at it just real quick?" So, when you're a published author, that means you've put a book out for purchase, and someone purchased your book. That gives them the right to read it, but outside of maybe a writers conference or a book signing, that doesn't really transfer a right to stalk/corner you in an otherwise social gathering to pick holes in your plot. Come up with a strategy to either extricate yourself from that kind of talk, or from that person.
 

Albedo

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I'd consider "readers" and "fans" pretty much interchangeable terms IRL, personally. Here's a little something from Merriam-Webster, though:

Definition of fan
  • 1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator.
  • 2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) science-fiction fans.
Imho, someone who shows up at his party with her very own copy of his book and corners him to discuss it in detail would qualify as "enthusiastic." Hence, I would consider her a fan.
According to this I don't think I'll ever qualify to be a fan, thank God. :tongue If I ever do get ardent, about anything, please spray me with a hose.