Romance where the love-interest dies?

SwallowFeather · Jul 3, 2017

Hi, it's my first time in this subforum and it's nice to meet you all!

So, I've mostly decided my next book is going to be a romance. WWII romantic suspense to be precise. I've got the setting, historical events, all the characters except the love-interest, lots of continuity already established in previous books... and for plot, brainstorms only.

In my current WIP (WWII suspense) I wrote my first romantic subplot and enjoyed the heck out of it. One thing I learned is that I go crazy for doomed love. Like, my characters genuinely couldn't be together; they were deeply devout in different religions, and at the end of the book they parted, perhaps forever, her escaping from occupied Europe and him staying behind. Bittersweet and all that. I loved it.

I've also been meditating on deaths of main characters, and, I just had this idea... this would be a book about young people (18-20) doing risky underground work in Occupied France, possibly Resistance stuff, definitely smuggling Jewish kids, and there's lots of possibilities for dying. I've been playing with the idea of having the female MC's mentor die. But then I started wondering...

What do people think of romances where the love-interest dies? Would you read that? Would you feel betrayed?

Thanks for answering!

BenPanced · Jul 3, 2017

Here's how Romance Writers Of America, the primary group in the US for the genre, defines romance:

Two basic elements comprise every romance novel: a central love story and an emotionally satisfying and optimistic ending.

A Central Love Story: The main plot centers around individuals falling in love and struggling to make the relationship work. A writer can include as many subplots as he/she wants as long as the love story is the main focus of the novel.

An Emotionally Satisfying and Optimistic Ending: In a romance, the lovers who risk and struggle for each other and their relationship are rewarded with emotional justice and unconditional love.

So if you're love interest is dead by the end of the book, it's not a romance. It might be considered a love story (see also...Love Story by Erich Segal or just about everything by Nicholas Sparks) or a drama with romantic elements but if it doesn't have the HEA many readers expect, it won't work. If, however, a love interest dies at the beginning of the story and your MC finds somebody else along the way, yeah, that can be considered a romance novel (happens all the time in the genre).

Marissa D · Jul 3, 2017

Yeah, what BenPanced said. Calling a story a romance but having one of the protagonists die at the end will get you burnt in effigy by readers who were expecting their HEA.

Anna Iguana · Jul 3, 2017

On the upside, sounds like you may have a drama in the works.

Marian Perera · Jul 3, 2017

SwallowFeather said:
What do people think of romances where the love-interest dies? Would you read that? Would you feel betrayed?

By all means write this. Call it a historical with a romantic subplot, or with strong romantic elements.

But if it's called a historical romance, and if (as a result) I read it expecting a happy ending...

...hell hath no fury.

Thanks for answering!

Thanks for asking. Much better to check with romance readers beforehand. I'm fine with the death of a love interest in any other type of fiction - I've read and enjoyed Gone With the Wind, The Thorn Birds, A Woman of Substance, you name it. I teared up over Romeo and Juliet and Sommersby. But if the book is called a romance, it needs to end with the main couple - or threesome, or foursome, or moresome - together, happy and alive (unless it's a zombie or a vampire romance, and even then, they need to be happy and together for it to be a romance).

SwallowFeather · Jul 3, 2017

Good to know!

So basically it would be a different genre depending on whether the love-interest dies, and I'm still deciding which genre to write.

...I guess having come to the Romance subforum, I shouldn't necessarily ask advice about which genre to pick!

Thanks to all for answering so quickly!

BenPanced · Jul 3, 2017

Marissa D said:
Yeah, what BenPanced said. Calling a story a romance but having one of the protagonists die at the end will get you burnt in effigy by readers who were expecting their HEA.

Or, at the very least, some very, very grumpy Facebook posts...

CEtchison · Jul 3, 2017

SwallowFeather said:
Good to know!

So basically it would be a different genre depending on whether the love-interest dies, and I'm still deciding which genre to write.

...I guess having come to the Romance subforum, I shouldn't necessarily ask advice about which genre to pick!

Thanks to all for answering so quickly!

Women's Fiction. See ME BEFORE YOU by JoJo Moyes <<< not a romance but still a great book.

Tophert · Jul 17, 2017

OK. This is my very first post.

Would I feel betrayed if I read your novel? Absolutely not.

I'm saying this to you, and to anyone else who is listening in, do not take the words of "Romance Writers of America" to be gospel. The thing about "An Emotionally Satisfying and Optimistic Ending" is possibly the worst advice I've ever read.

An aspiring romantic writer who receives this little tidbit from "Romance Writers of America" may recoil in awe and take the advice on board like it was told to them by a higher being, but if you take a peek behind the curtain you may ponder the notion of doubt. I've read up on RWOA and their main publishing house is "Harlequin", and "Harlequin" is the sister publishing house of the UK publishing house "Mills and Boon".

If you're British you'll be well aware of the notoriety of Mills and Boon. I grew up in the 90s, and even then I was well aware that the literary fraternity looked down on Mills and Boon. Why? Because they were low brow, they were formulaic and they were nothing but masturbatory stories for bored housewives. They were constantly being attacked by feminists who called their stories misogynistic, etc. Very little has changed in the following decades.

Who exactly are "Romantic Writers of America" to hijack the "Romantic Story" and define its meaning and dictate to people what it is and how it should be written. As far as I can see, the entire lot of them write for sexually frustrated housewives who want a Hollywood ending. Personally, I like something a little more grown up and challenging.

If you "go crazy for doomed love" then embrace it. Don't allow anyone to tell you that isn't a romantic story, as it's folly to give credence to people who would cite an organisation to champions Harlequin/Mills and Boon. Because they are wrong.

https://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2016/03/happily-never-after-and-the-changing-nature-of-the-romance-novel

lizmonster · Jul 17, 2017

Tophert said:
If you "go crazy for doomed love" then embrace it. Don't allow anyone to tell you that isn't a romantic story, as it's folly to give credence to people who would cite an organisation to champions Harlequin/Mills and Boon. Because they are wrong.

A romantic story is not the same as a romance novel. Every genre has romantic stories. A genre romance needs an HEA/HFN, and it's not the RWA that's behind that, or this Mills and Boon you speak of, it's the readers.

Absolutely write whatever story you want. But if you insist on calling it a romance novel without an HEA/HFN...well, best of luck to you.

Tophert · Jul 17, 2017

lizmonster said:
A romantic story is not the same as a romance novel. Every genre has romantic stories. A genre romance needs an HEA/HFN, and it's not the RWA that's behind that, or this Mills and Boon you speak of, it's the readers.

Perhaps this is snobbery poking its head out from under the blanket, but I wouldn't want those readers to purchase anyone that I've written. I doubt they'd understand my writing, anyway. HEA in romantic novels is akin to painting by numbers.

Absolutely write whatever story you want. But if you insist on calling it a romance novel without an HEA/HFN...well, best of luck to you.

Thank you.

AW Admin · Jul 17, 2017

Tophert stop posting and read The Newbie Guide to Absolute Write. Now.

We expect members to be courteous.

AW Admin · Jul 17, 2017

Tophert said:
OK. This is my very first post.

Would I feel betrayed if I read your novel? Absolutely not.

I'm saying this to you, and to anyone else who is listening in, do not take the words of "Romance Writers of America" to be gospel. The thing about "An Emotionally Satisfying and Optimistic Ending" is possibly the worst advice I've ever read.

An aspiring romantic writer who receives this little tidbit from "Romance Writers of America" may recoil in awe and take the advice on board like it was told to them by a higher being, but if you take a peek behind the curtain you may ponder the notion of doubt. I've read up on RWOA and their main publishing house is "Harlequin", and "Harlequin" is the sister publishing house of the UK publishing house "Mills and Boon".

If you're British you'll be well aware of the notoriety of Mills and Boon. I grew up in the 90s, and even then I was well aware that the literary fraternity looked down on Mills and Boon. Why? Because they were low brow, they were formulaic and they were nothing but masturbatory stories for bored housewives. They were constantly being attacked by feminists who called their stories misogynistic, etc. Very little has changed in the following decades.

Who exactly are "Romantic Writers of America" to hijack the "Romantic Story" and define its meaning and dictate to people what it is and how it should be written. As far as I can see, the entire lot of them write for sexually frustrated housewives who want a Hollywood ending. Personally, I like something a little more grown up and challenging.

If you "go crazy for doomed love" then embrace it. Don't allow anyone to tell you that isn't a romantic story, as it's folly to give credence to people who would cite an organisation to champions Harlequin/Mills and Boon. Because they are wrong.

https://www.heroesandheartbreakers.com/blogs/2016/03/happily-never-after-and-the-changing-nature-of-the-romance-novel

Dude, seriously, this post is so very very far out of line I don't even know where to begin.

I don't care what you personally write like or like to read; you will be respectful to other members—many of who writer for and read category category romance.

Unimportant · Jul 17, 2017

Tophert said:
I'm saying this to you, and to anyone else who is listening in, do not take the words of "Romance Writers of America" to be gospel. The thing about "An Emotionally Satisfying and Optimistic Ending" is possibly the worst advice I've ever read.

Romance as a concept is broad. Romance as a fiction marketing category has an absolute requirement: HEA or HFN ending. No one is saying 'don't write a story in which the love interest dies'. We are saying "if you write such a story, it will be marketed as a love story or women's fiction or thriller or historical or romantic adventure or something -- but not romance." Because romance publishers know what their readers want, and what the readers want is what the publishers publish.

Tophert said:
I've read up on RWOA and their main publishing house is "Harlequin", and "Harlequin" is the sister publishing house of the UK publishing house "Mills and Boon".

If you're British you'll be well aware of the notoriety of Mills and Boon. I grew up in the 90s, and even then I was well aware that the literary fraternity looked down on Mills and Boon. Why? Because they were low brow, they were formulaic and they were nothing but masturbatory stories for bored housewives. They were constantly being attacked by feminists who called their stories misogynistic, etc. Very little has changed in the following decades.

Wow.
Romances have been looked down on by literary critics -- by male critics -- because they were written largely by women, for women. Romances are no more low-brow, formulaic, or masturbatory for the reader than pulp SF, thrillers, franchise tie-ins, or any other genre. If you don't like to read them, that's fine. Every reader has their own genre and story preferences. But trashing romance simply because it does not appeal to you does not follow the AW ethos of respecting your fellow writers. There are AW members who publish with Harlequin and M&B, and your comments are very disrespectful to them.

lizmonster · Jul 17, 2017

Tophert said:
Perhaps this is snobbery poking its head out from under the blanket, but I wouldn't want those readers to purchase anyone that I've written. I doubt they'd understand my writing, anyway. HEA in romantic novels is akin to painting by numbers.

I don't write romance, but I'm a reader and a fan. How a story ends is not a measure of its worth or its complexity.

And as Unimportant said, this particular question is a matter of marketing, and it makes a difference.

Unimportant · Jul 17, 2017

SwallowFeather said:
Good to know!

So basically it would be a different genre depending on whether the love-interest dies, and I'm still deciding which genre to write.

...I guess having come to the Romance subforum, I shouldn't necessarily ask advice about which genre to pick!

Thanks to all for answering so quickly!

Yep! So go with what best serves your story, and worry about the genre or marketing category later. Your story concept sounds compelling: go for it!

Unimportant · Jul 17, 2017

Tophert said:
Perhaps this is snobbery poking its head out from under the blanket, but I wouldn't want those readers to purchase anyone that I've written. I doubt they'd understand my writing, anyway.

I have to admit, as sour-grapes, my-golden-prose-must-not-be-tainted-by-inferior-readers, publishers-do-not-understand-my-genius flounces go, this is one of the better ones.

BenPanced · Jul 17, 2017

Tophert said:
Perhaps this is snobbery poking its head out from under the blanket, but I wouldn't want those readers to purchase anyone that I've written. I doubt they'd understand my writing, anyway. HEA in romantic novels is akin to painting by numbers.

me reed adn writ roomants buks. brane get all hurtey when i red uthur buukz.

Okay. Enough of that. But I've never, ever seen so much vitriol hurled against a genre more than what happens to romance until I got involved with it.

Marian Perera · Jul 18, 2017

I wonder if people who sneer at HEAs in romance also despise mysteries because those always end with the murderer's identity being revealed.

Deb Kinnard · Jul 18, 2017

One item I think not mentioned before (I may have missed it 'cause still need Coffee #2): writing and marketing a novel--any novel--is a matter of making a contract with your readers. Write a mystery--the reader's expectation is that some criminal act be exposed and the question answered. Write horror--the reader's expectation is to be frightened into nightmares. Write romance--the reader's expectation is that two people will get together romantically by the end and enjoy each other, either for now or for keeps.

Violate those expectations and you've breached the contract. Now, that said: write any story you wish to tell. Nicholas Sparks does, and always offs at least one character in the end. But he's always quite careful not to call his stories "romance." Possibly because girl cooties. Possibly because he knows the contract and will not risk breaching it.

And although there's plenty to be said about RWA, they started as a Harlequin incestuous sister, yeah, but they've progressed so far beyond that now. I dropped out for a number of years because they were being batcrap about e-books, but they've seen the True Electronic Light now and I rejoined.

Please do not diss romance as a genre until you've written and sold a couple dozen titles of your own. Then I'll listen.

Twick · Jul 18, 2017

Tophert said:
Perhaps this is snobbery poking its head out from under the blanket, but I wouldn't want those readers to purchase anyone that I've written. I doubt they'd understand my writing, anyway. HEA in romantic novels is akin to painting by numbers.

That's not so much snobbery poking its head out from under the blankets as snobbery throwing back the covers, leaping out of bed in glorious nudity and doing a series of high kicks to make sure everyone can see the goods.

TStarnes · Jul 18, 2017

Regardless if people think it's snobbery or not, wouldn't you say it's been well proven that, with a few exceptions, people who break the HEA rule see sales from that genre hurt?

There are always people who can break the rules, but you have to 1) be very good and 2) have built up a trust with your fan base to keep them with you when you go off book.

Sometimes, we must bend to the realities of the market. Not that you have to, of course. Any author is able to do whatever they feel like with their book, but at least be prepared for the possible reaction and be willing to accept it if you fly in the teeth of what the market seems to want.

MerriTudor · Jul 18, 2017

Twick, that's beautifully said!

Twick · Jul 18, 2017

TStarnes said:
Regardless if people think it's snobbery or not, wouldn't you say it's been well proven that, with a few exceptions, people who break the HEA rule see sales from that genre hurt?

Agreed. And it sort of comes down, in my opinion, to the "does what it says on the tin" rule. Romance novels embrace the HEA. Many novels, some of the greatest, have romances that do not end happily ever after. They often sell in high numbers. But they're not marketed as romance novels. They are novels that are romantic.

I think sometimes people believe you pick the genre, then squeeze the novel into it, rather than conceive the novel and then figure out the best category for it.

amergina · Jul 18, 2017

There's also the whole "Wow, romance novels make $$! I don't read romance, but I want some of that $$ so I will write a romance, only it'll be SO MUCH BETTER than what those silly romance writers write. After all, how hard can it be?" that goes on about happy endings.

Like, if I'm in the mood for a comedy, I'm not queuing up Hamlet, despite the comedic bits in it.

If I'm in the mood for a genre romance, it damn well better have an HEA. Doesn't mean that it can't have gut-wrenching or traumatic parts*, but it better end optimistically, and that means NO DEAD MAIN CHARACTERS. Because the MCs are the love interests. I want them alive and together at the end because that's what I signed up to read when I grabbed a romance.

I don't understand why this is so hard for writers not familiar with the genre to understand.

*I'm in the process of reading a romance novel now that gutted me completely at 21% of the way through. Like pit of the stomach sadness and blinking back tears. You can do this to romance readers...you just better also give them the HEA they're reading for.

Romance where the love-interest dies?

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