Is chapter three too late for the inciting incident? In my MS, the inciting incident of the main conflict is started in chapter three. In the first two chapters I try to build character by the having the MC bullied, punished with detention, mugged, and getting grounded. It's while being grounded the inciting incident happens.
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Is chapter 3 too late?
- Thread starter tylermarab1987
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Is this the upper middle grade story covered in your Query letter posts a while back, where the 13-year-old MC chases a sock-gnome into the washing machine?
Apart from the fact I can't think of many thirteen-year-olds daft enough or physically able to get into a washing machine, whether chapter three is too late for the inciting incident all depends upon how the story unfolds and how long the first two chapters are. I doubt it would be necessary to have two whole chapters to show the character bullied and grounded, but it's your story and only you know what is covered in the chapters.
Usually, the sooner the better for the inciting incident.
Apart from the fact I can't think of many thirteen-year-olds daft enough or physically able to get into a washing machine, whether chapter three is too late for the inciting incident all depends upon how the story unfolds and how long the first two chapters are. I doubt it would be necessary to have two whole chapters to show the character bullied and grounded, but it's your story and only you know what is covered in the chapters.
Usually, the sooner the better for the inciting incident.
Wow, you have a good memory. Yes, it's the same story. I wanted to show the bullying scene because the MC learns to believe in and stand up for himself and takes on the bullies at the end of the book. I'm just worried if I took too much time setting up backstory.
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First- my memory isn't all that good- I tend to check posters' records before replying.
Backstory usually isn't needed by the reader, to follow a story, in as much detail as it (the backstory) may be needed by the writer to enable him to write it. It's often boring when it appears before we have had a chance to connect with the character.
I don't want to know the backstory of someone who taps my shoulder in the street. I'd rather share an experience with him first, so I then might want to know his backstory. And even better if I (or another character) has to tease it out of him or out of another character who is reluctant to reveal it, when it is relevant to the unfolding tale.
The bullying scene surely isn't backstory as such if the story chronologically follows on from it.
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I mean, it's impossible to say for sure...there's no formula for these things. But I guess the question to ask is, are the first two chapters just for establishing character, or is the plot moving somewhere as well? Ideally they'd do double-duty and make the most out of the space and words
If you're not sure, it could be worth doing a quick sketch (well, light outline I guess, however you want to phrase that) of how things would look if you moved up the inciting incident or cut out some of what precedes. I'm not sure anyone can say without reading the book what it needs but you yourself--so, no harm in taking a look at a different path if you have doubts.
I mean, it's impossible to say for sure...there's no formula for these things. But I guess the question to ask is, are the first two chapters just for establishing character, or is the plot moving somewhere as well? Ideally they'd do double-duty and make the most out of the space and words
If you're not sure, it could be worth doing a quick sketch (well, light outline I guess, however you want to phrase that) of how things would look if you moved up the inciting incident or cut out some of what precedes. I'm not sure anyone can say without reading the book what it needs but you yourself--so, no harm in taking a look at a different path if you have doubts.
I plan on rewriting the opening and starting at chapter three. I asked this question on another site, and a poster pointed out that it may be hard to say which is the inciting incident. The bullying caused detention, which caused the mugging, which caused the MC to be grounded, which caused the MC to chase a sock gnome into his dryer.
FWIW, "chapter 3" doesn't tell us how far into a book you are. Chapter three could be 10 pages in or 50 pages in or 100 pages in. Chapter lengths vary.
First- my memory isn't all that good- I tend to check posters' records before replying.
Backstory usually isn't needed by the reader, to follow a story, in as much detail as it (the backstory) may be needed by the writer to enable him to write it. It's often boring when it appears before we have had a chance to connect with the character.
I don't want to know the backstory of someone who taps my shoulder in the street. I'd rather share an experience with him first, so I then might want to know his backstory. And even better if I (or another character) has to tease it out of him or out of another character who is reluctant to reveal it, when it is relevant to the unfolding tale.
The bullying scene surely isn't backstory as such if the story chronologically follows on from it.
Yeah, I used this sites definition:
"The Inciting Incident (or “exciting incident” as someone once referred to it) is the event or decision that begins a story’s problem. Everything up and until that moment is Backstory."
http://narrativefirst.com/articles/plot-points-and-the-inciting-incident
I may be wrong. The inciting incident could be the bullying.
24 pages - 6,000 words of backstory - yikes!
Bullying and being grounded are events which can be repeated.
From what little I know of your story, I would suggest the inciting incident is your MC jumping into the washing machine portal. That's the point, surely, where he starts out on a path from which there is no turning back. Worth considering starting in the room with the washing machine or pretty close to it. A paragraph or two could show me why he is there.
I can learn his backstory later, as and when it is relevant and/or necessary for me to know it.
Bullying and being grounded are events which can be repeated.
From what little I know of your story, I would suggest the inciting incident is your MC jumping into the washing machine portal. That's the point, surely, where he starts out on a path from which there is no turning back. Worth considering starting in the room with the washing machine or pretty close to it. A paragraph or two could show me why he is there.
I can learn his backstory later, as and when it is relevant and/or necessary for me to know it.
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It sorta depends on how long the overall story is. But if you have you're hook up front then build to the incident, IMO, you might be ok. I love this chart: http://www.helpingwritersbecomeauthors.com/your-books-inciting-event-its-not-what-you-think-it-is/# by K.M. Weiland.
I have a suggestion for you. Write the book first. Don't try to figure out if the first two chapters are needed or not. Write the entire story and then come back to it. You will know more by then if the beginning is what you need or if it needs to be cut or rewritten.
+1 to Ambrosia.
All these things change in the many rewrites that you will (probably) do once the MS is drafted.
All these things change in the many rewrites that you will (probably) do once the MS is drafted.
Well, at first glance that does seem like sufficient excitement to carry the reader to the inciting incident. OTOH, the inciting incident is what changes the story from the status quo to a state of flux. In light of that, maybe you're looking at the wrong thing as the inciting incident. Why don't any of the other items you listed count as an inciting incident? Why not the bullying, which started the whole chain of events? Or if not that (since it's possible he's been bullied before and that really is status quo for him), something that happens after the bullying that's different from the normal pattern, like the detention or the mugging.
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I got the impression that the first draft is done, but if it isn't, then definitely, finish that before worrying about fixing the opening.
If that's all the first two chapters are doing, then the inciting incident is coming in too late.
That's quite a list of things happening. On a superficial level, it sounds like too many competing events piling up ahead of where the story really gets going. If kids are going to start getting impatient to get to the good part, or if it's potentially confusing which events are an important part of the plot as opposed to minor subplots, that's a problem.
I'm sure it makes sense in the manuscript, but there'd better be good reason why he gets grounded after being bullied and mugged. Most kids don't get grounded for that.
If that's all the first two chapters are doing, then the inciting incident is coming in too late.
That's quite a list of things happening. On a superficial level, it sounds like too many competing events piling up ahead of where the story really gets going. If kids are going to start getting impatient to get to the good part, or if it's potentially confusing which events are an important part of the plot as opposed to minor subplots, that's a problem.
I'm sure it makes sense in the manuscript, but there'd better be good reason why he gets grounded after being bullied and mugged. Most kids don't get grounded for that.
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I don't see why Chapter 3 would be too late--if done right. The first hit in my crime thriller doesn't happen until the fourth chapter. 45 pages in. The first three chapters are a prelude that sets things up, Lots of action. Hardly any backstory.
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Another factor is, will the pages and pages of bullying, detention, etc, confuse the reader?
If they are 'first few page' readers, they may be expecting a contemporary story of a boy's troubles in his life. The gnome in the dryer and the fantasy elements may not be what they wanted.
If they picked up the book based on the cover and the description, they may be put off by pages and pages of contemporary life when they want to read the 'exciting' bits.
If they are 'first few page' readers, they may be expecting a contemporary story of a boy's troubles in his life. The gnome in the dryer and the fantasy elements may not be what they wanted.
If they picked up the book based on the cover and the description, they may be put off by pages and pages of contemporary life when they want to read the 'exciting' bits.
Tyler, you might find a beat sheet helpful for this. From the sound of it, you've created the necessary build up to your inciting event, which is important. The inciting event shouldn't come on page 1. Whether it's coming too late, however, I can't tell you without reading the manuscript — but you might give a beat calculator a whirl.
Excellent. That is great news! Congratulations. Finishing the story is huge.
Have you considered having someone read the first three chapters and giving you their opinion on whether you are starting at the correct place or not?
I doubt there are definitive rules for when plot point occur. There are different types of stories (IMO), action driven vs character driven for example. Plot points fit where they fit. It's your story, tell it the way you want to.
Imo if your story is portal fantasy or anything really where your character gets taken to another exciting place or society previously unknown, you can't really afford to wait. Readers may feel cheated by what they read, thinking it was another story. But Something closer to contemporary, I don't think it's much of a problem. High Fantasy or or something where the world your presented is the setting for the entire novel I think this could be fine.
This can't be repeated enough. I'm still reworking the first couple paragraphs even though my WIP is written to the end. And a lot of backstory is sitting idle in the put-aside file including the first first chapter. That was a hard darling to kill, too.
Just keep writing. Diving into the washing machine after a sock-gnome sounds intriguing.
Oh. Never mind.
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I'm going to answer this with a tweet from a literary agent.
Jenny Bent @jennybent
Last writing advice for day, something a v. good editor once told me. "If it's boring, it's got to go." In other words, cut, cut, cut.
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Jenny Bent @jennybent
writers will say, "but it's there to establish character," or "it's there to set up x, y, z." Nope. If it doesn't entertain, get rid of it.
4:35 PM - 30 Jun 2017
Something to think about.
Jenny Bent @jennybent Last writing advice for day, something a v. good editor once told me. "If it's boring, it's got to go." In other words, cut, cut, cut.
Follow
Jenny Bent @jennybent writers will say, "but it's there to establish character," or "it's there to set up x, y, z." Nope. If it doesn't entertain, get rid of it.
4:35 PM - 30 Jun 2017
Something to think about.
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I agree with Ambrosia. It might help to have a second pair of eyes on it to see if it really is important to have those scenes. I have a huge tendency to overload with backstory and it took a beta reader to help me see that it really wasn't necessary information, especially in the beginning. Sometimes too much backstory can pull the reader out of the story because they don't know the character yet.