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Independent clauses and commas

CathleenT

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Another thing that may be useful in the context of this discussion is the FANBOYS mnemonic--for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so. When one of these separates two independent clauses, a comma is always correct. The OP is also correct in that some house styles allow the omitting of the comma if the clauses are very short (four words or less), as in this example: John drove and Mary walked.

But if this messes with your head, forget about it. "John drove, and Mary walked" is also correct. This is something that if you successfully navigate the trade publication route, editors will put your manuscript into the preferred house style. But an agent shouldn't wrinkle their nose over you separating every independent clause joined by a FANBOYS conjunction with a comma. If they rejected you for that sort of thing, it truly would be game over.

If you decide to go the self-publishing route, it's a little more involved. Essentially, you have to decide what your house style is and stick with it. You don't like the Oxford comma? After burying yourself in shame (just kidding, mostly), then you can simply decide not to use it. But don't use an Oxford comma in some sentences and not in others. That will lead people to believe you don't understand comma use. The same applies to commas that separate short independent clauses or any other comma rule that involves discretion, like whether or not you use a comma before trailing adverbs.
 
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BethS

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To cite an author we read in common;

"All this and much else besides, lovely and appalling, blood red and living green, yellow, blue, white, and velvet black, with minglings of other colours and colours he had never known."

Well, I don't have a problem with it, although I would actually add one more comma: "...other colours, and colours he..."
 

BethS

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."Jessica pushed open the door. The church was dark and smelled of mold and mildew. The stained glass windows were broken out. There was a heavy coating of thick dust and grime. It was almost glued to the pews and railings. Jessica approached the altar, looking up at the crucifixion. 'Our Lord and Savior' the inscription read."

Can't resist. :) You technically do need a comma after Savior as well. The phrase "the inscription read" serves the same function as "he said" or "she thought," both of which would be preceded by commas.
 
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Asterism

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If it's any consolation, even the greats can't nail down proper comma usage, if there's such a thing.
Mark Twain: “Cast iron rules will not answer what is one man's colon is another man's comma”
Oscar Wilde: “This morning I took out a comma and this afternoon I put it back in again.”
 

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As punctuation marks go, the comma is't all that old. It's descended from the virgule (/) and was primarily used to mark a cassura, or to divide lines of verse written as blocks of text.

The comma glyph as we know it today was invented by an early printer (Aldus Manutius d. 1515). The commas as a regularized mark for syntax is largely a late 18th–early 19th century thing, and it was increasingly regularized as a syntax mark in the early 20th century. You're going to see a lot of variation in earlier books, including some with little or no use of commas at all.
 

Roxxsmom

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Is that just for US English? Grammar and spelling differ between regions, and it's sometimes difficult to keep track of everything. English isn't my native tongue but I decided early to adopt UK English. I constantly get moaned at by Americans who don't seem to know about the regional differences.

I don't know, check out the links. I think they were American, but I've seen what is (to me) odd punctuation in British writers' work too. For instance, JK Rowling doesn't always use semicolons where I was taught to (using what I was taught was a comma splice to hold two independent clauses that don't have a coordinating conjunction together). Of course, I read the US editions, so maybe the editors handled things differently than in the UK ones.

It appears the rule is there is no absolute rule that one should stick by beyond possibly consistency.

My own is to stick with what is most stringently correct (based on the rules I was taught), especially if the presence or absence of a comma impacts meaning. An editor can remove the ones they deem optional later if they desire to publish my work.

Note that using commas "correctly" hasn't caught the eye of any editors or agents for me thus far :p
 
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