Not getting an agent?

Harlequin

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Just curious to ask writers who went the route of finding publishers directly--did you choose to remain agentless? If so, why so, and if not, why not?

If you did get an agent later, how much later did you wait, and was it awkward to go back to a publisher you'd signed with to explain you now had representation?

Is it harder or easier to find an agent in that position?
 
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Filigree

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I may be going that route, Harlequin. Some agents are more open to working on contract offers they didn't instigate. Their websites will often say. You can always email them and ask. Be aware that you still need to find an agent who loves your work and will help your writing career, not just one book. If they're not enthusiastic about your writing, they won't be a good fit. You can pay an agent to look at one contract, but then you're on your own.
 

EMaree

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I love it when a Brit asks this questions, because I can point to the Society of Authors -- free clause-by-clause contract vetting for authors, no agent required, no money required apart from the very good value SoA membership fee.

I'm of the opinion that an agent is always better if you can get it. It's their best interests to earn you as much money as possible, and they provide a lot of value approaching large houses and selling subrights. But if you can't get an agent, the Society's got your back.
 

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There are so many advantages to having an agent that I won't have space to list them here. But briefly: more money per contract, better contracts, better foreign and subsidiary rights sales, and someone on your side who will enforce those contracts, etc.

If you're going to approach publishers directly bear in mind that most imprints at the bigger ones won't consider you. So your market will be smaller. Yes, you can sometimes find an agent after you've got a contract but why would you? Better to get the agent first, then let them find you a contract--they have access to more publishers, know the market better than you do, and all that stuff.

Some writers do get a contract offer first then look for an agent: it can work but you have to get an agent very quickly under these circumstances, within a day or two, and that's difficult. It can be easier to find an agent once you have a contract, because they'll have to do less work for their commission, for example. But it might well also put agents off, as they won't necessarily want to work with the publisher you find for yourself. If it's a small publisher, for example, there might not be enough money on offer to make it worth their while working on the contract.

In general, if you want to work with an agent you're better off getting one first, and letting them find you a publisher. If a publisher appears on your doorstep asking to publish you then you can get an agent at that point: but I wouldn't look for a publisher first, with a view to finding an agent later. It doesn't really work that way.
 

WeaselFire

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Just curious to ask writers who went the route of finding publishers directly--did you choose to remain agentless? If so, why so, and if not, why not?
My agent less works have been in two categories. One is non-fiction where the publisher found me. The other is self publication. Self publication because I didn't have a book or audience that would attract a publisher or agent, not enough market. Barely enough to make it worth the effort, it turns out. :)

Is it harder or easier to find an agent in that position?

At least more stressful. You need to find an agent quickly, while the offer is on the table and before you negotiate.

Face it, if you can get a good offer direct from a publisher, and it's not a scam, then an agent isn't going to help much on that sale. They might be able to handle subsidiary rights, foreign sales, movies, etc., but they'll be hard pressed to make it worth their commission in most cases. That's one reason most agents don't like this method. Besides, they're not going to easily shop the manuscript around if you already have a publisher's offer. Most agents will take you on in these cases in the hopes of a sequel or other books they can sell.

If you have a good, well-written book, find your agent first. With all the changes in publishing over the last decade or two, this has really pretty much remained as it was.

Jeff
 

Harlequin

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Emaree--thank you, I will check that out for sure.

Okay, possibly I need to elaborate more. An agent would be nice, but I've tried to get agents and had all but one rejection (out of 60 or 70).

Due to various convoluted circumstances I have fulls with two indie pubs (they don't require exclusives afaik; one was a long shot, the other one I didn't sub to--not a scam, just a long story). I am trying to work out if it is worthwhile going back to get an agent at this juncture, but it sounds like they wouldn't be interested.

also I have another project which neither publisher would be able to pick up in future as it's the wrong genre, so I'm assuming I'll have to look elsewhere for that, and would then want to try for an agent again.

Hopefully that makes sense.
 
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Old Hack

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Face it, if you can get a good offer direct from a publisher, and it's not a scam, then an agent isn't going to help much on that sale. They might be able to handle subsidiary rights, foreign sales, movies, etc., but they'll be hard pressed to make it worth their commission in most cases. That's one reason most agents don't like this method.

I disagree that agents won't improve on an offer, even if they're late to the table. At the very least, if the publisher concerned is a good one they might well have agreed a boilerplate contract with them, which will be a substantial improvement on the standard boilerplate which the publisher will offer the writer.

Besides, they're not going to easily shop the manuscript around if you already have a publisher's offer.

Agreed.

Okay, possibly I need to elaborate more. An agent would be nice, but I've tried to get agents and had all but one rejection (out of 60 or 70).

Perhaps your query needs work, or your book isn't ready yet, or you're sending it to the wrong places. Sixty or seventy queries isn't many. You have room to revise and send it out again.

Due to various convoluted circumstances I have fulls with two indie pubs (they don't require exclusives afaik; one was a long shot, the other one I didn't sub to--not a scam, just a long story). I am trying to work out if it is worthwhile going back to get an agent at this juncture, but it sounds like they wouldn't be interested.

also I have another project which neither publisher would be able to pick up in future as it's the wrong genre, so I'm assuming I'll have to look elsewhere for that, and would then want to try for an agent again.

Hopefully that makes sense.

It does make sense, but I am concerned that you're letting publishers consider it already when you've not even made the decision to go ahead without an agent yet. One or the other.
 

Harlequin

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It does make sense, but I am concerned that you're letting publishers consider it already when you've not even made the decision to go ahead without an agent yet. One or the other.

Yes, but that sort of blunder seems par for the course, for me :p A shame real life cannot be as easily edited as a MS >.>

I'm sure it will all work out somehow in the end. Many thanks for the advice, to all and sundry. Much to bear in mind in the future.
 

PeteMC

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Your question is exactly how my career has been so far:

I didn't have any luck getting an agent a few years ago, so I submitted direct to a mid-sized independent publisher through an open submissions window. Yay, they loved it!

Got offered a contract. Joined the Society of Authors and had them vet said contract. Negotiated a few changes to the contract based on their advice, and signed with the publisher. Book comes out, lovely. Sign second book direct with publisher. Write third book in series, try to find an agent...

Of course by this point no one was interested, as it was the third in an ongoing series tied into a publisher with an option on it, so no negotiating room. Sign third book direct with publisher, who just to be clear are great to work with and haven’t cheated me or anything like that, but they don’t exactly have pots of money to throw at advances or promotion.

I then wrote a whole new book unrelated to the published ones and went on query again, and this time landed a great agent who sold the new book and its (then-unwritten) sequel to a Big 5 house for WAY more money than I’m used to, and better terms for fewer rights.

Agent will also rep further books in the existing series and work with my current publisher, who are totally cool with that – I think I was their only unagented author anyway, they’re not usually open to public subs.

So no, I never planned to stay unagented and I’m very, very glad I got the agent I did!

Anyway, best of luck!
 
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blacbird

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I have succeeded in not getting an agent for quite a long time now. Anyone who needs specific advice on how to accomplish not getting an agent, please PM me.

caw
 

Undercover

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I had 2 agents in the past that didn't work out. And I couldn't for the life of me get an agent for any of the rest of my books. Luckily, my 4th and 5th books were picked up by mid-sizes publishers. I was able to get a decent advance for both. Did the contract on my own. The only reason I couldn't go with the previous mid-size publisher was because they decided to get rid of their YA line and stopped accepting submissions for YA all together, which is why I had to find another. I always get a lot of praise for my books and lots of full requests, but the agents always seem to point out problems with it.

I've had much better luck submitting directly to the publishers. And I've been connecting with some really reputable places too. I started with a small publisher and worked my way up, on my own, so it can be done.
 

Undercover

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Orbit is definitely a big one being that it's an imprint of Hachette. Edge? I'm not too familiar with. I've heard of it, but can't remember.
 

Harlequin

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Edge isn't one I've submitted to, just one I know of (in Canada, I think).

I guess I'm just trying to gauge what makes something small versus midsize. Presumably has to do with catalogue and distribution? I'm guessing?
 

PeteMC

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Orbit is part of Hachette so it counts as Big Five. My new deal is with Ace/Roc, part of Penguin Random House, also Big Five.

I don't know who Edge are but to me the mid-sized independents are presses like Angry Robot (who my existing series is with), Titan and Solaris/Rebellion in the UK. I don't know the US ones but I'm sure there are some.

To my way of thinking "mid-sized" implies still having chain bookstore distribution but not being owned by PRH, Hachette, Harper Collins etc. Anything that's ebook-only or ebook and POD I'd class as a small press.

EDIT: I'm sure Old Hack will be along later to correct my definition :)
 
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Old Hack

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I see nothing to correct there, Pete. FOR ONCE.
 

Laer Carroll

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In my specialty, sci-fi/fantasy, there's a magazine that's been around since the late 70s called Locus which puts out a year-end review every February 1[SUP]st[/SUP]. Included is a list of publishers by number of SF/F titles published.

Below the big 5 is Baen books, with 76 books, about half new and half reprint titles. Lowest in this "top middle" group is Skyhorse/Nightshade with 51 titles. The remainder trail off from 40 to a half-dozen titles. Most of the smaller titles are reprints.

I know of only three of the SF/F publishers who accept unagented submissions. The first two say they answer within 3 months; Baen is typically a year.

https://us.macmillan.com/torforge/about/faq/#how-do-i-submit-writing-to-tom-doherty-associates-llc
http://www.penguin.com/publishers/daw/
http://www.baen.com/submit
 
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