Does anyone know anything about this publisher? Could not find anything, but I was also wondering if it's because the search function takes out the ampersand.
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C&R Press
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A nice website but they charge to submit :/ so even if legit that would put me off every time.
$25 per novel too
$25 per novel too
Here's a link to the website: C&R Press
"C&R" stands for "Conscious and Responsible" (which may be why they've got a .org addy).
They appear to have been around since 2006, and publish just about everything: novels, poetry, nonfiction, anthologies, short story compilations, etc. Their covers are...odd.
ETA: That fee to submit - yow.
"C&R" stands for "Conscious and Responsible" (which may be why they've got a .org addy).
They appear to have been around since 2006, and publish just about everything: novels, poetry, nonfiction, anthologies, short story compilations, etc. Their covers are...odd.
ETA: That fee to submit - yow.
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When you two look down on the fee, are you thinking they are not trustworthy and are pulling a scam? Or are you thinking they are just exploitative but may still be a legitimate publisher?
I think they might be a nonprofit (or using a nonprofit business model) but nonetheless are using hopeful authors as a revenue stream. $25 is pretty steep for a reading fee, and it sticks in my craw.
It would be interesting to know if they pay advances. My guess would be no.
It would be interesting to know if they pay advances. My guess would be no.
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I would consider paying a tiny reading fee to a reputable press (2 or 3 bucks) but 25 is outrageous. That's half a week's shopping for a family.
If all publishers or agents did that, publishing traditionally would be unaffordable. I would not submit to someone asking for that amount cause I don't want to encourage it. And I don't think it is necessary.
I'm not anyone knowledgeable though. This is just my opinion as an individual layman.
If all publishers or agents did that, publishing traditionally would be unaffordable. I would not submit to someone asking for that amount cause I don't want to encourage it. And I don't think it is necessary.
I'm not anyone knowledgeable though. This is just my opinion as an individual layman.
I'm not interested in any publisher who charges reading fees. Money is supposed to flow to the author, not the other way around.
$25 is a pretty normal fee for a lit contest. And based on the names I recognize in their catalog, that's what they are: a literary press.
What that means is that a press like this won't be making you tons of money. Often they may pay a flat payment of a $1000 dollars or so, but you may not get any royalties after that (though you might get other perks, like a lot of free books, as with the press that published my book of poetry). The press may be regarded highly in literary circles and have great production values, but they are often supported more by grants or institutions (like being associated with a university) rather than off book sales. In that way, yes, the payment is definitely helping to keep the press afloat (though I can't say whether that's the case with C&R). Editorial staff often works with/at universities, too, so they aren't making money off of the press either. Instead of money flowing to the writer or to the publisher, it generally flows into the books.
What that means is that a press like this won't be making you tons of money. Often they may pay a flat payment of a $1000 dollars or so, but you may not get any royalties after that (though you might get other perks, like a lot of free books, as with the press that published my book of poetry). The press may be regarded highly in literary circles and have great production values, but they are often supported more by grants or institutions (like being associated with a university) rather than off book sales. In that way, yes, the payment is definitely helping to keep the press afloat (though I can't say whether that's the case with C&R). Editorial staff often works with/at universities, too, so they aren't making money off of the press either. Instead of money flowing to the writer or to the publisher, it generally flows into the books.
As MM says.
https://crpress.submittable.com/submit
C&R Press is open for full length manuscripts in all categories for our 2017-18 catalog. Novels, poetry, short story collections, creative non-fiction, memoir, experimental and hybrid work.
C&R Press submissions are open for our Winter Soup Bowl Chapbook and New York reading series.
C&R Press is engaging more than ever in our community, seeking diverse and submerged voices, hosting readings and events at festivals from the Brooklyn Book Festival and the Miami Book Festival, to Sewanee and the Texas Book Festival, to off-site gatherings at AWP. (Next Impromptu Literary Mixer is 9/16/17 in NYC - Concrete&Water).
C&R has never held a formal reading period. We accept work that will hold people’s attention for years to come. It’s true that not all submitted work can be taken for publication, but please know each contribution helps support our cause (we’re poets and writers, too!)—which is to celebrate and promote literature. The funds created by the reading period go toward one goal: the creation of author-friendly contract models and opportunities to market and promote essential literature.
We look forward to seeing your work!
*Please note that for work we've classified In Progress we do not allow edits or changes to the manuscript.
_____________
https://crpress.submittable.com/submit
C&R Press is open for full length manuscripts in all categories for our 2017-18 catalog. Novels, poetry, short story collections, creative non-fiction, memoir, experimental and hybrid work.
C&R Press submissions are open for our Winter Soup Bowl Chapbook and New York reading series.
C&R Press is engaging more than ever in our community, seeking diverse and submerged voices, hosting readings and events at festivals from the Brooklyn Book Festival and the Miami Book Festival, to Sewanee and the Texas Book Festival, to off-site gatherings at AWP. (Next Impromptu Literary Mixer is 9/16/17 in NYC - Concrete&Water).
C&R has never held a formal reading period. We accept work that will hold people’s attention for years to come. It’s true that not all submitted work can be taken for publication, but please know each contribution helps support our cause (we’re poets and writers, too!)—which is to celebrate and promote literature. The funds created by the reading period go toward one goal: the creation of author-friendly contract models and opportunities to market and promote essential literature.
We look forward to seeing your work!
*Please note that for work we've classified In Progress we do not allow edits or changes to the manuscript.
_____________
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Sorry, I was unclear. I know it's a $25 dollar fee to submit--I was just trying to put the press in the literary context, where open readings also often suggest or require that you buy a book as an "entry fee" to submit. Is this a good model? I don't think so. It's definitely not a model designed to make anyone money. But with poetry (which is the section of their website where I find names I recognize) generally what you want is a beautiful book published by a press that has clout in the literary world or, at least, isn't looked on badly.
The context is not the same, though.
Paying to get published is vanity publishing, no matter how pretty the book is.
You said you were trying to put it in a literary context by comparing it to a contest charging an entry fee. But a contest is not the same as a reading fee for open submissions.
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A working writer's job is to get paid by publishers, not support their noble cause, whatever it is. They can get out and hard scrabble like the rest of us, not sit on their thumbs waiting for the next victim to wander in waving money. I will point out that 25 bucks is NOT a charity donation, though it can be deducted from one's taxes as a business expense.
If one is crazy or desperate enough to fall for it.
Run away. Money flows in one direction: toward the writer.
There are plenty of reputable publishers who do not charge a reading fee. Some of the bigger ones (gasp) even pay an advance. Go with them first and start with the biggest dog on Publisher's Row and work your way down. Never start at the bottom and work up. Put on your game face and go with the big ones from the beginning.
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Don't submit to publishers which charge reading fees.
Reading fees mean publishers are making money from writers even if they don't publish them, and that's not on.
If publishers have to make these charges they're not making enough money from the books they publish--and that means they're not selling enough copies of those books. And would you want to be published by a publisher which didn't sell enough copies to make it worthwhile?
Having said that, I like their jacket designs. But nope. Reading fees. Don't do it.
Reading fees mean publishers are making money from writers even if they don't publish them, and that's not on.
If publishers have to make these charges they're not making enough money from the books they publish--and that means they're not selling enough copies of those books. And would you want to be published by a publisher which didn't sell enough copies to make it worthwhile?
Having said that, I like their jacket designs. But nope. Reading fees. Don't do it.
$25 reading fee?
I'd have gladly thrown away only $25 to these crooks.
I paid close to a $1000 to have this company/org/whatever read my work for nothing. How, you ask?
At least one of the editors/owners at this publisher is on Upwork offering his editorial services. In his profile and in private conversation he states he has also acted as an agent to previous clients whose work he's edited, and has placed the books at major and indie publishers like S&S, Ballantine, Red Hen, etc.
So I thought, what do I have to lose? So what if he claims to be not just a publisher but a freelance editor and agent? And plus if he liked my work, he could help land me a book deal.
He did a shit job editing my work, which was riddled with typos and didn't even address my main concern that several agents had pointed out to me. He actually made my work much worse, as a later editor who looked over his notes found.
He then wanted to meet up with me to discuss becoming my agent, which is where his real intentions became clear. He didn't want to be my agent at all. He wanted to publish it on C&R. When I said no, I want it on a major publisher, he said he wanted 20% and exclusive rights to shop the book for a year.
During our conversation he asked me questions like "but we addressed the agents' concerns about the manuscript right?" and "what happened in the end of your book again?"
And it was then that I realized how I'd been conned. He likely passed off my manuscript to one of his publishing house's interns to read, probably for free or little pay, and collected the $1000. This is this publisher's business model, folks.
Think this sucks? It gets worse.
On top of that, he spoke to me so contemptuously. He's also a racist. I think he not only wanted to con me, but also use me as a racial token. Other people have called out the editors of this publisher for their racism too. I can find the links again for anyone who is interested.
But before I cut him loose I made sure to contact the authors whose books he claimed he sold and publishers he claims he sold them to. I asked them all: who was the agent for this book? He never sold these books.
Word got back to him, and he texted me to suggest I must be mentally ill to have done this.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'd have gladly thrown away only $25 to these crooks.
I paid close to a $1000 to have this company/org/whatever read my work for nothing. How, you ask?
At least one of the editors/owners at this publisher is on Upwork offering his editorial services. In his profile and in private conversation he states he has also acted as an agent to previous clients whose work he's edited, and has placed the books at major and indie publishers like S&S, Ballantine, Red Hen, etc.
So I thought, what do I have to lose? So what if he claims to be not just a publisher but a freelance editor and agent? And plus if he liked my work, he could help land me a book deal.
He did a shit job editing my work, which was riddled with typos and didn't even address my main concern that several agents had pointed out to me. He actually made my work much worse, as a later editor who looked over his notes found.
He then wanted to meet up with me to discuss becoming my agent, which is where his real intentions became clear. He didn't want to be my agent at all. He wanted to publish it on C&R. When I said no, I want it on a major publisher, he said he wanted 20% and exclusive rights to shop the book for a year.
During our conversation he asked me questions like "but we addressed the agents' concerns about the manuscript right?" and "what happened in the end of your book again?"
And it was then that I realized how I'd been conned. He likely passed off my manuscript to one of his publishing house's interns to read, probably for free or little pay, and collected the $1000. This is this publisher's business model, folks.
Think this sucks? It gets worse.
On top of that, he spoke to me so contemptuously. He's also a racist. I think he not only wanted to con me, but also use me as a racial token. Other people have called out the editors of this publisher for their racism too. I can find the links again for anyone who is interested.
But before I cut him loose I made sure to contact the authors whose books he claimed he sold and publishers he claims he sold them to. I asked them all: who was the agent for this book? He never sold these books.
Word got back to him, and he texted me to suggest I must be mentally ill to have done this.
Yeah. Yeah.
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Interesting story Mystere! And a perfect example of why we shouldn't pay fees. Use the money to attend a good conference or two instead.
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Mystere,
I think Writer Beware might be interested in this turn of events. Can you contact us at [email protected]?
Rich
I think Writer Beware might be interested in this turn of events. Can you contact us at [email protected]?
Rich
I did months ago. No one ever contacted me. I was pretty disheartened I took the time to write up my experience for nothing.
I'm more than happy to provide any watchdog group or regulatory body private emails and other communications where it can be shown which titles this person claimed he sold to publishers. They can then call the publishers up, and in one case look at the author's online version of his book, and see the author thanking his agent, which is not this editor I hired lol. And I can hand over his aggressive communications, as well as that insinuation there's something not right with my mind because I contacted publishers and authors to confirm he actually sold those books lol (not that that's unethical...just unprofessional and evil).
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Would you like me to copy and paste my message to Victoria to that email address? I'll reference this post as well.
I'm more than happy to provide any watchdog group or regulatory body private emails and other communications where it can be shown which titles this person claimed he sold to publishers. They can then call the publishers up, and in one case look at the author's online version of his book, and see the author thanking his agent, which is not this editor I hired lol. And I can hand over his aggressive communications, as well as that insinuation there's something not right with my mind because I contacted publishers and authors to confirm he actually sold those books lol (not that that's unethical...just unprofessional and evil).
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Would you like me to copy and paste my message to Victoria to that email address? I'll reference this post as well.
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Please send it again.
There are only three of us at Writer Beware and, as much as I hate to admit it, things can get very hectic and some stuff gets lost in the piles of complaints.
Now, honestly, we can't contact everyone everytime, but I guarantee it does get added to the database, so if others voice similar complaints, we'll have coroborating evidence.
There are only three of us at Writer Beware and, as much as I hate to admit it, things can get very hectic and some stuff gets lost in the piles of complaints.
Now, honestly, we can't contact everyone everytime, but I guarantee it does get added to the database, so if others voice similar complaints, we'll have coroborating evidence.