• This forum is specifically for the discussion of factual science and technology. When the topic moves to speculation, then it needs to also move to the parent forum, Science Fiction and Fantasy (SF/F).

    If the topic of a discussion becomes political, even remotely so, then it immediately does no longer belong here. Failure to comply with these simple and reasonable guidelines will result in one of the following.
    1. the thread will be moved to the appropriate forum
    2. the thread will be closed to further posts.
    3. the thread will remain, but the posts that deviate from the topic will be relocated or deleted.
    Thank you for understanding.​

Cosmology? Is the Universe Conscious?

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,642
Reaction score
14,865
Location
Massachusetts
Some of the world's most renowned scientists are questioning whether the cosmos has an inner life similar to our own.

NBC News said:
For centuries, modern science has been shrinking the gap between humans and the rest of the universe, from Isaac Newton showing that one set of laws applies equally to falling apples and orbiting moons to Carl Sagan intoning that “we are made of star stuff” — that the atoms of our bodies were literally forged in the nuclear furnaces of other stars.

Even in that context, Gregory Matloff’s ideas are shocking. The veteran physicist at New York City College of Technology recently published a paper arguing that humans may be like the rest of the universe in substance and in spirit. A “proto-consciousness field” could extend through all of space, he argues. Stars may be thinking entities that deliberately control their paths. Put more bluntly, the entire cosmos may be self-aware.

The notion of a conscious universe sounds more like the stuff of late night TV than academic journals. Called by its formal academic name, though, “panpsychism” turns out to have prominent supporters in a variety of fields. New York University philosopher and cognitive scientist David Chalmers is a proponent. So too, in different ways, are neuroscientist Christof Koch of the Allen Institute for Brain Science, and British physicist Sir Roger Penrose, renowned for his work on gravity and black holes. The bottom line, Matloff argues, is that panpsychism is too important to ignore.

“It’s all very speculative, but it’s something we can check and either validate or falsify,” he says.

Three decades ago, Penrose introduced a key element of panpsychism with his theory that consciousness is rooted in the statistical rules of quantum physics as they apply in the microscopic spaces between neurons in the brain.

In 2006, German physicist Bernard Haisch, known both for his studies of active stars and his openness to unorthodox science, took Penrose’s idea a big step further. Haisch proposed that the quantum fields that permeate all of empty space (the so-called "quantum vacuum") produce and transmit consciousness, which then emerges in any sufficiently complex system with energy flowing through it. And not just a brain, but potentially any physical structure. Intrigued, Matloff wondered if there was a way to take these squishy arguments and put them to an observational test.

One of the hallmarks of life is its ability to adjust its behavior in response to stimulus. Matloff began searching for astronomical objects that unexpectedly exhibit this behavior. Recently, he zeroed in on a little-studied anomaly in stellar motion known as Paranego’s Discontinuity. On average, cooler stars orbit our galaxy more quickly than do hotter ones. Most astronomers attribute the effect to interactions between stars and gas clouds throughout the galaxy. Matloff considered a different explanation. He noted that the anomaly appears in stars that are cool enough to have molecules in their atmospheres, which greatly increases their chemical complexity.

Matloff noted further that some stars appear to emit jets that point in only one direction, an unbalanced process that could cause a star to alter its motion. He wondered: Could this actually be a willful process? Is there any way to tell?

...
 

MaeZe

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 6, 2016
Messages
12,772
Reaction score
6,477
Location
Ralph's side of the island.
That one's a bit far fetched, don't you think?:tongue

Matloff noted further that some stars appear to emit jets that point in only one direction, an unbalanced process that could cause a star to alter its motion. He wondered: Could this actually be a willful process? Is there any way to tell?
I bet that's not even true.

I'm sorry, but this reminds me of the false claims dogs go round and round to always point north to poo. It's fake news.

I suppose no one is interested in repeating the study but I call bullshit on methodology or fake data, maybe. I watched my circling dogs after that research came out and the direction they ended up in was totally random.

But even if there was a consistent jet direction, to go from that to a conclusion consciousness was involved is an unsupported stretch. We are wise to remember, just because something is claimed to be a study result does not mean the study led to a valid conclusion.


I still love you, Intro. ;)
 
Last edited:

Beanie5

Live a poem...Or die a fool. \/
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
217
Location
Oz
Last edited:

Introversion

Pie aren't squared, pie are round!
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2013
Messages
10,642
Reaction score
14,865
Location
Massachusetts
I still love you, Intro. ;)

Ha ha ha!

Yeah, I'd give that theory about a zero percent chance of being true. Sorry, sometimes I post stuff in a hurry, without the personal commentary. Far-fetched indeed.
 

Tazlima

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,042
Reaction score
1,494
Unlikely as it is, it's certainly a fun thing to ponder. I occasionally wonder whether things that live harmlessly in or on the human body (eyelash bugs, gut flora, etc), are aware of our existence as conscious beings or if they simply see us as "the environment." Would they view the blood pulsing through our veins, bringing oxygen and life with each pass, as a naturally occurring cycle, just as we percieve tides? And of course, that leads to the question... are we unwitting parts of a larger cosmic entity? Gut flora in a cosmic bowel?
 

Teinz

Back at it again.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
2,440
Reaction score
186
Location
My favourite chair by the window.
In a very real sense, it is us who make the Universe conscious. Our body is made up of tiny parts of Universe. Our body produces our consciousness. Ergo: The Universe, or parts of it, are conscious.

Did I make some mistake here? Genuine question.
 

Beanie5

Live a poem...Or die a fool. \/
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
217
Location
Oz
I don't think they are saying the universes is concious ( not saying it's not but wow if it is ) , a tree is alive, the rule of thumb if perhaps in a cosmologically signifigant area the second law of thermodynamics was being breached it would indicate life.

the big bang itself might be a case in point if there was some reverse collapse of a black hole might be an example ( dreaming here but who knows?)
 
Last edited: