What's in a name?

cmhbob said:

Show a little respect all the way around.

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I refer to him as 45 as a sign of respect. A sign of respect to all suffering from his bigoted and greedy policies. A sign of respect to the people he has trampled on and assaulted. A sign of respect to the families he is tearing apart to cater to racists.

Out of respect to them, the ones who aren't having their basic human dignity respected, I refer to the asshat as 45.

Also, I'll point out he is not the president. He lost the popular vote and bought the electoral. That may get him the seat in the house, but that sure as hell doesn't make him presidential.

Venavis said:

Also, I'll point out he is not the president.

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this is patently false.

Venavis said:

Also, I'll point out he is not the president.

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William Haskins said:

this is patently false.

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True. But he's still not MY president. This is patently true.

Better?

William Haskins said:

this is patently false.

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Stealing a car may put you in possession of said car. It doesn't make you the owner.

nighttimer said:

True. But he's still not MY president. This is patently true.

Better?

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sure, but an ENTIRELY different statement.

Venavis said:

Stealing a car may put you in possession of said car. It doesn't make you the owner.

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Technically it does make you the driver.

nighttimer said:

True. But he's still not MY president.

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If you're an American living in America, he's your president. Just like I had to suck it up with obama, you'll have to do the same for the next eight years.

NYR94 said:

If you're an American living in America, he's your president. Just like I had to suck it up with obama, you'll have to do the same for the next eight years.

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These two situations are not equivalent, either.

NYR94 said:

If you're an American living in America, he's your president. Just like I had to suck it up with obama, you'll have to do the same for the next eight years.

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Hopefully not for even the next eight months.

This is not an "us" vs "them" issue. Not a "Republican" vs "Democrat" issue. This is about someone occupying the oval office who is not fit to step foot in it, who has neither the mental capacity, nor the moral fortitude to govern.

I don't understand why people can't see the truth of the matter.

i wasn't making a value judgment; i was simply distinguishing fact from falsehood.

whether you like him or not, trust him or not, want him or not, he is president.

the resist movement does itself no favors by deluding itself.

Your President Is Not My President.

NYR94 said:

If you're an American living in America, he's your president. Just like I had to suck it up with obama, you'll have to do the same for the next eight years.

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William Haskins said:

i wasn't making a value judgment; i was simply distinguishing fact from falsehood.

whether you like him or not, trust him or not, want him or not, he is president.

the resist movement does itself no favors by deluding itself.

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The Resist Movement does itself no favor by submitting meekly as the Compliant and Pacified have. I have no reason to accept your or NYR94's admonishment. I'm not so much an American as I am a human being, a Black man and a free-thinking individual. Maybe after that "American" factors into the equation.

Or maybe not.

"I'm not going to sit at your table and watch you eat, with nothing on my plate, and call myself a diner. Sitting at the table doesn't make you a diner, unless you eat some of what's on that plate. Being here in America doesn't make you an American.... No I'm not an American, I'm one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy.... I'm speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of a victim. I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare."
~ El Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcolm X)

Just as Trump denied the legitimacy of Barack Hussein Obama for eight years, I deny the legitimacy of Donald John Trump from now to however long his odious presence befouls the Oval Office. If a White man refused to accept a Black man could be the President of the United States, I see no reason for this Black man not to return the gesture to this White man in spades. I did not support a thug, a sexist, a vulgarian, a racist, an ignoramus, a contemptible, know-nothing buffoon. Not at any point have I ever indicated I would support Trump and it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to say different now.

Speak for yourselves, gentlemen, but you can't speak for me. If you accept Trump as your president that is entirely on you and has nothing to do with me.

I am not delusional. I am the resistance.

William Haskins said:

i wasn't making a value judgment; i was simply distinguishing fact from falsehood.

whether you like him or not, trust him or not, want him or not, he is president.

the resist movement does itself no favors by deluding itself.

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I'm not sure it's delusion. Delusion would be claiming that Donald Trump is not the president. Clearly, he is. By saying he is not their president, people are drawing attention to the uncommon circumstances surrounding his election, his bizarre style of government leading to marginalized groups being increasingly marginalized and hard-won gains in areas such as environmental protection and worker protection being lost, and the distinct possibility that he and/or people in his administration have had improper relationships with members of the Russian government.

NYR94 said:

If you're an American living in America, he's your president. Just like I had to suck it up with obama, you'll have to do the same for the next eight years.

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Yeah, the way he rebuilt the economy, job growth went up, rescued the American auto industry, Wall Street reform, got rid of Bin Laden and generally improved America's image abroad, I mean wow, I can see how you might be really tired of things continually improving.

LittlePinto said:

I'm not sure it's delusion. Delusion would be claiming that Donald Trump is not the president. Clearly, he is.

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see post 84.

this is clearly all i said.

ETA: it's post 3 in this chopped version of the thread.

nighttimer said:

Speak for yourselves, gentlemen, but you can't speak for me. If you accept Trump as your president that is entirely on you and has nothing to do with me.

I am not delusional. I am the resistance.

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this is very dramatic and all, but doesn't really have anything to do with that i've been saying.

nighttimer said:

"I'm not going to sit at your table and watch you eat, with nothing on my plate, and call myself a diner. Sitting at the table doesn't make you a diner, unless you eat some of what's on that plate. Being here in America doesn't make you an American.... No I'm not an American, I'm one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy.... I'm speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of a victim. I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare."
~ El Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcolm X)

Just as Trump denied the legitimacy of Barack Hussein Obama for eight years, I deny the legitimacy of Donald John Trump from now to however long his odious presence befouls the Oval Office. If a White man refused to accept a Black man could be the President of the United States, I see no reason for this Black man not to return the gesture to this White man in spades. I did not support a thug, a sexist, a vulgarian, a racist, an ignoramus, a contemptible, know-nothing buffoon. Not at any point have I ever indicated I would support Trump and it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to say different now.

Speak for yourselves, gentlemen, but you can't speak for me. If you accept Trump as your president that is entirely on you and has nothing to do with me.

I am not delusional. I am the resistance.

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I think related to that is the reluctant of many to refer to him with his formal title; instead he is #45. And that is itself part of a larger rhetorical strategy: don't use his name.


See this piece in the The Atlantic: On Not Saying Donald [deleted]'s Name

And here's linguist George Lakoff on not using #45's name.

William Haskins said:

see post 84.

this is clearly all i said.

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I wasn't responding to post 84.

no one said not accepting him as your president is delusional. i said ignoring the fact that he is the president is.

so you're not responding to anything i've contended.

AW Admin said:

...
And here's linguist George Lakoff on not using #45's name.

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Excellent link. I'm familiar with Lakoff's framing. I had not yet read his material on sound symbolism. I love that guy's insights.

I also like the idea of consciously avoiding using you-know-who's name.

MaeZe said:

I also like the idea of consciously avoiding using you-know-who's name.

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Voldemort?

rugcat said:

Voldemort?

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Voldemort is he-who-must-not-be-named. It's spelled differently.

William Haskins said:

this is very dramatic and all, but doesn't really have anything to do with that i've been saying.

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That's one man's opinion. Mine is it has everything to do with that you've been saying.

Being "dramatic" has nothing to do with it. Being "accurate" has everything to do with it.

And here's

linguist George Lakoff on not using #45's name.

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From the article.

And he renames is opponents: Little Marco, Lyin’ Ted, Crooked Hillary.
Suppose he were renamed.

If there is any a putative strict father cannot be, it is childish and spoiled — and weak. Some children at a young age have trouble pronouncing T+R. The R turns to W after a T, as in Twump. Suppose we change the U to I, to indicate smallness. That would be Twimp.

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Twimp.

President Twimp.

Yeah, I could go with that. Sounds just about right.

nighttimer said:

Being "accurate" has everything to do with it.

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well in the name of accuracy, let's review. some folks have been conflating "not my president" with "not the president."

the first is a statement of performative activism, a refusal to identify with or dignify an abhorrent office-holder. i get it.

but it holds not more legal weight than one of those sovereign citizen-types screaming "you have no authority over me!" to a cop as he's being cuffed and put in a cruiser.

as sloganeering or escapism, it has its place. but it's clear virtue-signalling and meaningless in practical terms.

as for the statement (and the ONLY statement) i refuted, donald trump is, in fact, the president. that's sickening and unfortunate, but it's the truth. not an alt-fact, not fake news.

he can spearhead legislation that you will be legally bound by, he can sign treaties and agreements that are every bit as legal as those signed by kennedy, reagan or obama, and he can and will do all of this in your name up to the point that you renounce your citizenship.

to say he is not president, as an objective and verifiable fact, is delusion.

that is the totality of what i have expressed in this thread.