Pop Culture References

I sure can't speak for the industry but I love pop culture in literature and don't hesitate to include it. There is no such thing as timelessness in fiction anyway. Everything changes, including language. My approach is to secure the story in a set time frame and reference pop culture within that time frame.

I learned this lesson the hard way, when over the (long) course of writing my first novel, an Instamatic photo that was important to the plot had to be removed because Polaroid quit making that type of film. I took the reference out and had to change a few things. Then Polaroid brought that type of film back ... then cute Polaroid Instamatic cameras became a fad. It made my head spin trying to expunge things that would "date" that novel.

Now I just accept that every novel is going to end up dated in some way or another no matter how hard the author works at the impossible goal of timelessness. What makes a story timeless anyway isn't the random objects or lack of pop cultural reference. It's the theme and the relationships between the characters.

ETA: As for readers knowing what you're referencing, most things should make sense in context. I've rarely read a novel where I didn't have to look at least one thing up. When I read The Legend of Bagger Vance I had no earthly idea what "plus fours" were, and they were referenced on every other page.

Bottom line, don't stress about it too much. If your story is good your readers will want to figure out any cultural details that elude them.

Answer no. 1 in the OP is really the pertinent one. Answer no. 2 matters much less, because everything you write is "dated", as viewed down the future line. But if you use pop culture references, it is important to use those that will be generally recognized. Everybody knows who the Beatles were, but not so many will recall the contemporaneous Brit pop duo Peter and Gordon.

caw

Personally, I love pop culture references. There's a certain enjoyment I get when I come across one if I know it and I get the same thing when I come across one I didn't catch because I didn't know the work the first time around. An example is with the second book of the Inheritance Cycle by Paolini, Eldest. One scene has a character saying 'Barges? Barges? We don't need no stinking barges!', which I thought came from Blazing Saddles, but was older than that movie. Another one, same series, was another character knitting something with a blue box and Eragon I think it was, asking about it and the knitting character saying 'Raxa-Oh it wouldn't matter to you.'. I didn't know at the time that it was a Doctor Who reference.

Now that I'm writing, I put a couple of my own. One such is a main character needing to go to the hospital. I named it Rampart, a dated reference today. (And I'm 20. Go figure.)

My thoughts on this is that no matter what we do, anything we put in, is something that's just for fun. It's not a serious matter in the least.

As long as it makes sense if you don't know the reference, then having pop culture references is fine. It's kind of a little easter egg for people in the know. And if people don't get it...then they just notice. I enjoy a well used pop culture reference in a book, as long as the author doesn't go overboard on it and does it to much.

MartyG said:

One scene has a character saying 'Barges? Barges? We don't need no stinking barges!', which I thought came from Blazing Saddles, but was older than that movie.

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The actual quote uses the word "badges", and is from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, starring Humphrey Bogart. It's one of the most famous and iconic lines in movie history. The movie is a classic, as is the novel by B. Traven on which it is based, and which, coincidentally, I have been reading this week. The book contains that very line, too. It's a magnificent novel, and I should finish it this evening.

caw

I say go for it! I enjoy pop culture references. Authors make up artists and celebrities all the time, so if someone doesn't get a pop culture reference, it could read use like authors who make it up so I wouldn't worry too much

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I do some pop culture references, but most of my references are weird little factoids I throw in there to see if anyone catches them. I do make sure that they make sense within the story, but it does give me a secret feeling of glee to find a way to fit some of the stuff I know in there. An example of this, is in my second book, I have this line: It didn’t matter to him, whether her name was Foxglove or Emily or Sadie Mae Glutz. As far as he was concerned, she was beautiful.

The most obvious answer is that the best option would be to stick to only those pop culture icons that are really respected and worldwide. However there are so many new book releases out there that most of them only have their five minutes Thus worrying about becoming outdated might be a little be exaggerated in some cases. (though everyone wishes to write timeless thing..)

Adelle said:

So, as a general rule (for myself) I tend to avoid pop culture references in my writing because (1) it can alienate a reader who doesn't know what I'm referencing, and (2) it dates the work.

That being said, I broke my own rule and used a pop culture reference in a contemporary murder mystery novel. The thing is, I have a year set in the novel (so it will always be dated, so to speak) and every time I read the sentence, I laugh to myself, so now I really like it.

My question is: what's the industry's take on pop culture references, and does anyone here use them in their work? o.o

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Iambriannak said:

I say go for it! I enjoy pop culture references. Authors make up artists and celebrities all the time, so if someone doesn't get a pop culture reference, it could read use like authors who make it up so I wouldn't worry too much

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I was just discussing this with an AW member I'm beta reading for. He was wondering about his references. While I only knew a few of them (they were before my time), it didn't bother me at all to read those I didn't know. Like Iambriannak said, it was a lot like reading made up ones.

I might have more tolerance for not knowing than the average reader, as I'm ADHD and used to missing a lot and don't bother to slow down and know everything outside of what I'm intensely concentrating on. But for me anyway, as long as I can figure out what's going on regardless, I'll zip past references and won't mind them. I do kind of like seeing those I know and like, and imagine there are others who feel that way about the others. I'd say include those that add to the story and character, at least for anyone who does know them.

Best with it!

CJ