Prologues in YA Fantasy

Adelle

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
145
Location
California
I know some people hate prologues, and other people don't care.

My question is: are there many YA fantasy novels with prologues? Just, in general.

Second question (random): I read a Court of Thorn and Roses (and the sequel, though I can't remember the name) and it seemed to have a lot of sex/sexual activity in it. Is sex common in YA now? Is it frowned upon?
 

breaking_burgundy

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
554
Reaction score
48
Location
in transit
I don't know about many, but it seems like the few that do have prologues have very short prologues. (Less than two pages.) The only one I can remember off the top of my head is SHADOW AND BONE.

A COURT OF THORNS AND ROSES is technically adult. Some YA books have sex, but it's usually fade-to-black sex. I don't think you could get away with anything explicit.
 

Sage

Currently titleless
Staff member
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
64,561
Reaction score
22,363
Age
43
Location
Cheering you all on!
(Although the same author gets away with beyond-YA-level sex in book 5 of her YA series too; probably because of the success of ACOTAR)

Plenty of YA fantasy have prologues. Go to a B&N and check out the Teen fantasy section. I've been burned by a few excellent prologues only to find out that the rest of those books were written differently, so I can say for sure that they're out there.
 

Adelle

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
145
Location
California
I don't know about many, but it seems like the few that do have prologues have very short prologues. (Less than two pages.) The only one I can remember off the top of my head is SHADOW AND BONE.

A COURT OF THORNS AND ROSES is technically adult. Some YA books have sex, but it's usually fade-to-black sex. I don't think you could get away with anything explicit.

I've seen some with prologues, but they did always feel weird. Your statement echoes my inner thoughts.

And A Court of Thorns and Roses is adult? o.o (I could have sworn I bought it under YA)

(Although the same author gets away with beyond-YA-level sex in book 5 of her YA series too; probably because of the success of ACOTAR)

Plenty of YA fantasy have prologues. Go to a B&N and check out the Teen fantasy section. I've been burned by a few excellent prologues only to find out that the rest of those books were written differently, so I can say for sure that they're out there.

I've read several YA books, but none of them had prologues. Then I found a few that do, but they were weird. One was a poem, one was super short, one was a fairy tale type thing... Not really standard prologues, so I was worried about including one in my novel. o.o
 

Beanie5

Live a poem...Or die a fool. \/
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
1,342
Reaction score
217
Location
Oz
Shogun has an awesome prolouge it goes for about 20 pages I think ( and is much better than the rest of the book ) but I couldn't see why it would not transfer to YA.
 
Last edited:

Sage

Currently titleless
Staff member
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
64,561
Reaction score
22,363
Age
43
Location
Cheering you all on!
ACOTAR is being sold in the YA sections but is actually NA. SJM is already a popular YA author, so I'm sure bookstores found it easier to sell the NA book from the YA section.

Looking at my YA TBR bookshelf and the two books I'm reading--only speculative fiction, first books in their series, and books from the Big 5--I got 5 out of 14 that had prologues. That's about one-third. So, don't worry about it.
 

bmr1591

Registered
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
44
Reaction score
3
Location
Mississippi
Prologues are strange. Some people can do them and do them extremely well. Others should be inserted into another part of the book and given as backstory by a character involved. Some YA books do have them, but the number is a lot smaller than those without them.

On sex, like someone else said, most is fade to black. Don't want to get too sexy with young readers.
 

neurotype

New Fish; Thick Scales
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
216
Reaction score
63
I've seen a lot, a lot of prologues when critiquing unpublished novels. They rarely work. In published fiction, I know off-hand that Twilight had them! But I would have nixed them there too. I don't see the point.
 

Adelle

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
145
Location
California
Shogun has an awesome prolouge it goes for about 20 pages I think ( and is much better than the rest of the book ) but I couldn't see why it would not transfer to YA.

I see tons of adult novels with them, I just feared YA had a no-no list I was unaware of (which included prologues).

ACOTAR is being sold in the YA sections but is actually NA. SJM is already a popular YA author, so I'm sure bookstores found it easier to sell the NA book from the YA section.

Looking at my YA TBR bookshelf and the two books I'm reading--only speculative fiction, first books in their series, and books from the Big 5--I got 5 out of 14 that had prologues. That's about one-third. So, don't worry about it.

I could see ACOTAR being NA. >.> (But yeah, I bought it as a YA novel)

Prologues are strange. Some people can do them and do them extremely well. Others should be inserted into another part of the book and given as backstory by a character involved. Some YA books do have them, but the number is a lot smaller than those without them.

On sex, like someone else said, most is fade to black. Don't want to get too sexy with young readers.

The prologue I want to include would definitely be best as a prologue, I have no doubt in my mind about that. It's whether a publisher will care that I'm worried about. >.>

I've seen a lot, a lot of prologues when critiquing unpublished novels. They rarely work. In published fiction, I know off-hand that Twilight had them! But I would have nixed them there too. I don't see the point.

My beta readers liked the prologue I've written, and I like the prologue I've written, but this is the first time I've written YA. I don't want to make any weird mistakes. >.>
 

CJSimone

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Messages
1,387
Reaction score
497
I know some people hate prologues, and other people don't care.

My question is: are there many YA fantasy novels with prologues? Just, in general.

Second question (random): I read a Court of Thorn and Roses (and the sequel, though I can't remember the name) and it seemed to have a lot of sex/sexual activity in it. Is sex common in YA now? Is it frowned upon?

Hi Adelle. Not sure how many YA fantasy books have prologues (I read more thriller/suspense/mystery and YA contemporary). I do read some YA fantasy, but I often skip prologues so there might be more than I've noticed.

I'd say sex in YA is now pretty standard if you mean the characters are having sex, but like others said, it would be mostly a fade to black kind of thing and nothing explicit. Some YA books do go a little further and that trend will probably continue and increase. It can definitely be hard to know exactly where to draw the line with sexual content (I've had some questions about sexual content and YA I've hesitated to ask, though more about type and less about explicitness). But you and/or any agent/publisher who takes it on could always edit things out.

Good luck!

CJ
 

Adelle

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
145
Location
California
Hi Adelle. Not sure how many YA fantasy books have prologues (I read more thriller/suspense/mystery and YA contemporary). I do read some YA fantasy, but I often skip prologues so there might be more than I've noticed.

I'd say sex in YA is now pretty standard if you mean the characters are having sex, but like others said, it would be mostly a fade to black kind of thing and nothing explicit. Some YA books do go a little further and that trend will probably continue and increase. It can definitely be hard to know exactly where to draw the line with sexual content (I've had some questions about sexual content and YA I've hesitated to ask, though more about type and less about explicitness). But you and/or any agent/publisher who takes it on could always edit things out.

Good luck!

CJ

Thanks, CJ! I appreciate the insight. :3
 

foxesfairytales

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Messages
59
Reaction score
5
Location
Scotland, UK
The two prologues that jumped to my mind were the Grisha books and My Lady Jane. I think they worked because of the style they were told in.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,079
Reaction score
10,776
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
I don't know about prologues in YA fantasy. I can't remember any offhand, but I tend to forget whether the first chapter of a book was a prologue or chapter 1 if it worked for me.

There have been YA novels with fairly explicit sex in them since the 70s, at least (Judy Blume's Forever was published then), but I've seen more with the fade to black approach, or having it presented in a non explicit way "on screen," in YA fantasy. I don't think it's categorically forbidden, but different editors and agents (and readers) may have their own feelings on this. I think it works best when showing the sex in a more detailed fashion advances plot or characterization in a meaningful way.
 

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 15, 2008
Messages
18,615
Reaction score
4,029
Location
Brillig in the slithy toves...
YA is primarily about and for teenagers who occupy a wide spectrum of expectation, and experimentation, and experience. Your book doesn't *have* to include sex anymore than it needs to ignore sex as a reality of teen life. Some teens will appreciate clear-cut handling of sex scenes and roll their eyes at a fade-to-black. Some teens will blush to their toes at the description of a make-out session and be grateful that they don't have to skip the passages they're not comfortable with reading. The same principle applies to language choices. Write what feels right to you, and there will be some teenagers out there with the same comfort / expectation level who will thank you for your choices.


As for prologues, if it helps, the last book my agent had in edits (which is a YA fantasy) now has a prologue because she thought it was necessary to prevent a deus-ex situation. It's not actually necessary information, but it's more of a "bonus content" play, if that makes sense.
 

Sirion

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
1,082
Reaction score
157
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
I know some people hate prologues, and other people don't care.

My question is: are there many YA fantasy novels with prologues? Just, in general.

They exist, but I feel like when a YA book has a prologue that they're much, much shorter than a prologue in an adult book would be.
 

Adelle

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
145
Location
California
The two prologues that jumped to my mind were the Grisha books and My Lady Jane. I think they worked because of the style they were told in.

Thank you! Knowing there are others makes me feel better about including mine. :3

I don't know about prologues in YA fantasy. I can't remember any offhand, but I tend to forget whether the first chapter of a book was a prologue or chapter 1 if it worked for me.

There have been YA novels with fairly explicit sex in them since the 70s, at least (Judy Blume's Forever was published then), but I've seen more with the fade to black approach, or having it presented in a non explicit way "on screen," in YA fantasy. I don't think it's categorically forbidden, but different editors and agents (and readers) may have their own feelings on this. I think it works best when showing the sex in a more detailed fashion advances plot or characterization in a meaningful way.

Thank you - I don't necessarily want to include sex, I just wanted to know the general rule after reading ACOTAR. :3

YA is primarily about and for teenagers who occupy a wide spectrum of expectation, and experimentation, and experience. Your book doesn't *have* to include sex anymore than it needs to ignore sex as a reality of teen life. Some teens will appreciate clear-cut handling of sex scenes and roll their eyes at a fade-to-black. Some teens will blush to their toes at the description of a make-out session and be grateful that they don't have to skip the passages they're not comfortable with reading. The same principle applies to language choices. Write what feels right to you, and there will be some teenagers out there with the same comfort / expectation level who will thank you for your choices.


As for prologues, if it helps, the last book my agent had in edits (which is a YA fantasy) now has a prologue because she thought it was necessary to prevent a deus-ex situation. It's not actually necessary information, but it's more of a "bonus content" play, if that makes sense.

Haha, when I was in high school I used to read all sorts of books with sex in it (mostly adult books, because a lot of adult books have explicit stuff). I remember thinking I was clever because my mother forbid anything with sex in it movie-wise, but all the sci-fi and fantasy I read was a 100x worse. I knew if I told my mother, or she read the novels I read, she'd never want me reading them, but since she had no idea (all she saw was a thick book in my hands) she would praise me all the time, while scolding my brother for trying to sneak onto the internet when she wasn't there to supervise. >.>
 

RMLavender

Registered
Joined
Mar 1, 2017
Messages
15
Reaction score
2
Location
The Wandering Lands
Website
www.intheleaves.com
Most of the time I feel like YA has to be careful with the form and pacing of a story so a prologue can sometimes be risky. Adult fantasy readers are used to prologues and slow introductions/pacing for long stories, but I think YA fantasy usually tries to capture the younger readers' attention fairly quickly (YA fantasy, especially the first book in a series, is much shorter for the same reason).

If the prologue is important enough to the story it'll probably work well as a first chapter. I'm thinking of The Boy Who Lived - chapter one of the Harry Potter series - it functions as a prologue, but presenting it as the first chapter just helps the story flow and helps kids get into the story quickly. That's Middle Grade, though, and there's a little more leeway in YA to experiment with form. When I have seen prologues they've been really just a short scene, a few hundred words, definitely nothing as long as you see in adult fantasy. Still, I think it's important to pay attention to genre conventions when writing for younger readers. YA fantasy is having a surge in popularity, but not every fantasy story is YA even if the characters are younger.

Speaking of genre conventions...I really do wish booksellers and marketing was more upfront about Sarah J. Maas' move into adult fantasy. It really bothers me that her ACOTAR series and the later TOG books are still sold and marketed as YA fantasy. I know they're just trying to make use of the loyal audience, but sometimes I think the YA community needs to remember that as a genre it's meant to be for actual teens, no matter how many adults enjoy YA books. Not that I'm against sex in YA - I think it has a really important place in the genre, especially in contemporary non-fantasy YA, and can give teens a great space for considering the emotional side of intimacy and its role in personal development - but Maas' sex scenes are a lot more like bodice-ripping romance scenes and I don't think that kind of sex scene is very useful for the YA genre and actual teen readers. Especially given how many middle grade readers start reading up specifically within the fantasy genre.

Sorry I have a lot of thoughts on both of these issues...well just issues about the YA genre in generally, especially anything that moves the genre away from its purpose for fostering actual teen reading experiences.
 

Adelle

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 7, 2017
Messages
365
Reaction score
145
Location
California
Sorry I have a lot of thoughts on both of these issues...well just issues about the YA genre in generally, especially anything that moves the genre away from its purpose for fostering actual teen reading experiences.

I appreciate the insight. I like writing adult fiction specifically because I don't want to ask myself "is this appropriate for an underage reader?" I don't want my manuscript to be turned down because an editor answered that question with a fat "no."

And I know certain categories of novels (like romance) have strict guidelines. I feel like YA is more flexible, but there are still rules about what is, and is not, accepted in the category, which is why I asked. :3
 

Sage

Currently titleless
Staff member
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 15, 2005
Messages
64,561
Reaction score
22,363
Age
43
Location
Cheering you all on!
If all that would keep an agent/publisher from accepting your ms is a too-explicit sex scene, you're probably okay. They'll ask you to tone it down if they love the rest of your novel. Unless, it's in the first 5-10 pages, in which case, they'll probably assume the rest of your novel is that explicit at the query stage.