Hard Sell (YA LGTB Christian SF) Need Advice

SaraC · Jun 10, 2017

I have a book that I suspect may be a hard sell:

Contemporary, Christian, Male-Male Romance meets SF thriller. The MC is very religious, and throughout the book, is struggling to reconcile that with his religious beliefs. I've done one round of querying so far. Got a full request from Deidre Knight that turned into rejection and about 11 other agent rejections. The book is currently out with Nine Star Press. However, I'm revising my submission package and am almost ready for another round of submissions. I can't find anything on MSWL that directly fits this - in fact, a lot of people who want LGBT+ don't want
Christian fiction, and some publishers who want Christian fiction don't want LGBT.

I am wondering if anyone had any recommendations for agents or publishers I could submit it to. For this project, I am open to either agents or directly submitting to a publisher.

Guerrien · Jun 10, 2017

Hello! So I'm mostly just peeking in--I don't have any recs for you, and I don't know much about Christian fiction, YA or otherwise. I was just wondering a little about:

SaraC said:
I can't find anything on MSWL that directly fits this - in fact, a lot of people who want LGBT+ don't want Christian fiction, and some publishers who want Christian fiction don't want LGBT.

Unless agents/publishers are directly saying they don't want a genre, you don't need to limit yourself to the ones who mention both. It's not bingo, you don't need to get a full house. (...That's poker, isn't it. Oh, well.) Heck, it's YA. Obviously you'd be better off targeting the agents/publishers actively looking for YA LGBTQ works and/or YA Christian fiction, but a lot of agents who represent YA are looking for YA 'all genres' when you look at their submission guidelines.

bmr1591 · Jun 10, 2017

That is...definitely a hard sell. Sorry, I don't have much advice for you, but if you're already published with Nine Star Press, that's going to make it even tougher to find an agent willing to represent it.

cornflake · Jun 10, 2017

SaraC said:
I have a book that I suspect may be a hard sell:

Contemporary, Christian, Male-Male Romance meets SF thriller. The MC is very religious, and throughout the book, is struggling to reconcile that with his religious beliefs. I've done one round of querying so far. Got a full request from Deidre Knight that turned into rejection and about 11 other agent rejections. The book is currently out with Nine Star Press. However, I'm revising my submission package and am almost ready for another round of submissions. I can't find anything on MSWL that directly fits this - in fact, a lot of people who want LGBT+ don't want
Christian fiction, and some publishers who want Christian fiction don't want LGBT.

I am wondering if anyone had any recommendations for agents or publishers I could submit it to. For this project, I am open to either agents or directly submitting to a publisher.

Wait -- what do you mean the book is out with Nine Star Press? How are you querying it? I couldn't be more confused.

I just looked at their site and it doesn't appear to be a vanity press, though I didn't delve too deeply.

They also seem to want fair levels of erotica.

In general, no, Christian pubs don't want LGBTQ stuff; they decidedly want nothing to do with anything even remotely close to erotica, and actual homosexual romance including sex is going to be a flat no from most every Christian pub.

Agents who rep general romance including LGBTQ might be more open to a character who has religious conflicts, but ... we're now back to that it's already published, and apparently currently, which is the most confusing part of all of this.

Curlz · Jun 10, 2017

I'm thining that the "hard sell" issue might be because of the content rather than the label. If it's going to anger both LGBT and Christian audiences, then who's left to read it? Technically, "male-male" romance is a no-no for many strict Christians and if you want to sell this to a "Christian publisher" you might look into how that topic is dealt with in the books marketed as "Christian". If it's a YA, you can send to anybody who accepts YA but again, make sure the "male-male" romance is depicted in a way suitable for YA audience. Apart from that, a great book will get interest even if it contains controversial content (your characters might be some sort of a liberal christian who is just fine with male-male romance and I'm sure there are lots of readers who support this) but the topics need to be handled in a delicate manner and the book needs to be beautifully written in order to be able to sell to a wide audience.

SaraC · Jun 10, 2017

By out I didn't mean published. I meant out on submission, in their slush. I know agents tend to rep a variety of genres but a lot say "no christian or religious." Maybe the mean non fiction? The book is written for a wide audiance and is appropriate for YA, but the MC has a habit of quoting scripture and is conflicted but manages to reconcile himself with his faith.

CJSimone · Jun 10, 2017

SaraC said:
I have a book that I suspect may be a hard sell:

Contemporary, Christian, Male-Male Romance meets SF thriller. The MC is very religious, and throughout the book, is struggling to reconcile that with his religious beliefs. I've done one round of querying so far. Got a full request from Deidre Knight that turned into rejection and about 11 other agent rejections. The book is currently out with Nine Star Press. However, I'm revising my submission package and am almost ready for another round of submissions. I can't find anything on MSWL that directly fits this - in fact, a lot of people who want LGBT+ don't want
Christian fiction, and some publishers who want Christian fiction don't want LGBT.

I am wondering if anyone had any recommendations for agents or publishers I could submit it to. For this project, I am open to either agents or directly submitting to a publisher.

Hi SaraC. I'd look first for agents/publishers who rep both general YA and spiritual works (a lot of agents rep both of these categories amongst others). After that, any who rep YA and don't specify "no religious works" or otherwise give you the impression that they're opposed to religious content. There's no harm in trying Christian agencies/publishers, but my impression is that their readership is more conservative than most Christian readers, and they'd hesitate to take it on.

It's a good idea for anyone to research agents, but especially in a case where you know only some people will be accepting toward your work, the more research you do the better. So get a sense from interviews and such. You'll be able to find agents who've repped both general/nonreligious works and spiritual/religious ones, or who say certain things that show greater openness to all people and groups and stories.

I wouldn't let concerns about salability discourage you from writing what you want to and attempting to publish it. If everyone did that, we'd be very limited and never break out in new ways. We'd have only followers and conformists and no one to set new trends or open our minds to new ideas. And really you never know what will come of it in the end because a lot of things that are initially rejected do eventually become accepted and even popular.

If the story's important enough to you, but agents/publishers all shy away from it, then you might have a good reason for self-publishing (though I'd see how things go with traditional publishing first). Since there aren't a lot of books like it out there, maybe yours will really speak to someone going through similar struggles with faith and sexuality. Big sales aren't the only reason to publish.

I think many religious people would be fine with your story (the very vocal group of homophobic religious persons isn't representative of most religious persons, who are typically much more accepting/loving than they're portrayed). I think many people in general will have no objections to combining homosexuality and religion in a story as long as the story isn't "preachy". IMO, most objections are to preachiness, whatever it is being preached. If yours is an authentic story with authentic struggles, you'll more likely find your audience. That's not to say agents and publishers (even those who like your story) won't be scared to take it on, but if you're persistent maybe you'll overcome any added difficulties in placing your work.

Best to you.

CJ

Roxxsmom · Jun 10, 2017

I'm no expert, but wouldn't an agent who says, "No Christian or religious," be referring to the specific genre (or possibly demographic would be a better word, as there is Christian SFF, Christian romance, Christian contemporary and so on) known as Christian or Inspirational, which (as far as I know) has a pretty narrow set of criteria for what is acceptable and is aimed at a particular type of Christian or religious person?

Such an agent might not be opposed to a novel where the protagonist happens to be religious, even if it's something of a focus for him, any more than agents who don't rep romance would be opposed to any story with a romantic arc. Likewise, it's possible to have books with LGBT+ protags that aren't categorized or shelved as LGBT fiction specifically.

What I don't know is whether your novel reads like a Christian/inspirational novel, but one where the protagonist happens to be gay, or is it primarily an LGBT+ novel where the protag also happens to be Christian, or if it's truly a hybrid, or it's really a more general contemporary or genre novel whose protagonist happens to be gay and Christian? Again, I'm no expert, and I struggle with where some of the lines are too (when is a book with a YA protagonist not a YA novel; when is a fantasy novel with an important romantic arc and a HEA primarily a romance vs a fantasy). It's a matter of emphasis, but it could still be a somewhat blurry line.

I imagine that there are people who have struggled to reconcile their sexuality with their religious beliefs, so such a novel could connect with some readers, but it may not be under the umbrella of either Christian fiction or LGBT fiction specifically. Is the struggle to come to terms with being gay and Christian the main plot of your book, or is it something that's happening as part of the main character's arc as he is primarily focused on other story elements?

cornflake · Jun 10, 2017

SaraC said:
By out I didn't mean published. I meant out on submission, in their slush. I know agents tend to rep a variety of genres but a lot say "no christian or religious." Maybe the mean non fiction? The book is written for a wide audiance and is appropriate for YA, but the MC has a habit of quoting scripture and is conflicted but manages to reconcile himself with his faith.

Ahh, ok, gotcha, sorry, I thought you meant it had been put out by the press.

A bunch of this depends on content, I think, to an extent at least.

While plenty of Christians might be fine with an LGBTQ character, Christian publishers have really specific guidelines that would generally make that a hard no. In some cases, like if the MC were struggling with his faith and came to reject a homosexual lifestyle, you might get purchase there, as I think (I've only got a passing familiarity with the guidelines, but there are AW members who are very well-versed and who publish Christian fiction -- I'm sure someone will come along who knows more) Christian fiction put out by Christian publishers requires a conversion story if there's a crisis of faith, and pretty strict adherence to evangelical dogma.

The other side of your coin, agents who say no Christian or religious, I'd guess mean those books, that would go to Christian pubs. It's a particular market, so presumably the players are familiar with each other and agents who don't work with those pubs wouldn't be the right audience for those queries.

So... this is where content comes in. If your book is more general, where the focus is sort of less on the specific Christianity of the MC, or if it's not told in the manner of Christian fiction, then that'd probably have a better shot.

SaraC · Jun 10, 2017

Roxxsmom said:
I'm no expert, but wouldn't an agent who says, "No Christian or religious," be referring to the specific genre (or possibly demographic would be a better word, as there is Christian SFF, Christian romance, Christian contemporary and so on) known as Christian or Inspirational, which (as far as I know) has a pretty narrow set of criteria for what is acceptable and is aimed at a particular type of Christian or religious person?

Such an agent might not be opposed to a novel where the protagonist happens to be religious, even if it's something of a focus for him, any more than agents who don't rep romance would be opposed to any story with a romantic arc. Likewise, it's possible to have books with LGBT+ protags that aren't categorized or shelved as LGBT fiction specifically.

What I don't know is whether your novel reads like a Christian/inspirational novel, but one where the protagonist happens to be gay, or is it primarily an LGBT+ novel where the protag also happens to be Christian, or if it's truly a hybrid, or it's really a more general contemporary or genre novel whose protagonist happens to be gay and Christian? Again, I'm no expert, and I struggle with where some of the lines are too (when is a book with a YA protagonist not a YA novel; when is a fantasy novel with an important romantic arc and a HEA primarily a romance vs a fantasy). It's a matter of emphasis, but it could still be a somewhat blurry line.

I imagine that there are people who have struggled to reconcile their sexuality with their religious beliefs, so such a novel could connect with some readers, but it may not be under the umbrella of either Christian fiction or LGBT fiction specifically. Is the struggle to come to terms with being gay and Christian the main plot of your book, or is it something that's happening as part of the main character's arc as he is primarily focused on other story elements?

I guess what it is really is one thing I need to figure out before I query again. There are two main plots. One is Micah figuring out how is faith and sexuality fit together. The other is about his boyfriend, who is a hacker/robotics engineer on the run from the government. Micah's story was partially inspired by my Uncle, who never missed Mass a day in life even though the church didn't condone him loving a man. It is set in the present day, but the technology just slightly goes beyond what is currently possible. Maybe I'd be safer pitching it as romantic thriller with slight science fiction elements and not really mention the religion in the query. Thank you!

Sage · Jun 10, 2017

Nothing wrong with having a religious character in YA outside of Christian fiction. If it is an important part of the character, there's no reason to avoid mentioning it either. On the other hand, it might not be a necessary part of the query. Lots of important stuff doesn't get added to the query. It's up to you to decide whether it's needed in the path you take in the query. It sounds like the faith vs. sexuality is a pretty important part of the character, though.

I agree with those who say that those agents saying "No Christian" are specifically talking about the genre of Christian fiction. My guess would be that that is not what you have here.

SaraC · Jun 10, 2017

cornflake said:
Ahh, ok, gotcha, sorry, I thought you meant it had been put out by the press.

A bunch of this depends on content, I think, to an extent at least.

While plenty of Christians might be fine with an LGBTQ character, Christian publishers have really specific guidelines that would generally make that a hard no. In some cases, like if the MC were struggling with his faith and came to reject a homosexual lifestyle, you might get purchase there, as I think (I've only got a passing familiarity with the guidelines, but there are AW members who are very well-versed and who publish Christian fiction -- I'm sure someone will come along who knows more) Christian fiction put out by Christian publishers requires a conversion story if there's a crisis of faith, and pretty strict adherence to evangelical dogma.

The other side of your coin, agents who say no Christian or religious, I'd guess mean those books, that would go to Christian pubs. It's a particular market, so presumably the players are familiar with each other and agents who don't work with those pubs wouldn't be the right audience for those queries.

So... this is where content comes in. If your book is more general, where the focus is sort of less on the specific Christianity of the MC, or if it's not told in the manner of Christian fiction, then that'd probably have a better shot.

OK - that makes sense. As it stands right now, there are two main plots - Micah's faith/sexuality and his hacker boyfriend trying to take down a quasi-government corporation that was trying to use him as a cyber assassin. In the end, they cripple "The Company" and Micah stays with his boyfriend and decides God will forgive him if he does enough good to make up for his "sins." Maybe I was reading too much into the "no christian fiction." I really hadn't even thought of it as christian fiction until a critique partner and beta-reader told me they thought it was religious or Christian fiction. Of course, then there was one reader who called is blasphemy (as a compliment. He likes blasphemy.). Anyways...

Thank you! You clarified a few things for me.

NineStar isn't a vanity press, but they are royalties only, no advances. The thread about them in Bewares/recommendations is fairly positive for this site. They are publishing one of my Novella's, and they are nice people, but I'm still nervous about them being the only place currently considering this book. They did request it twice, once in #kidpit and once in #DVpit, but I didn't send it until the second time because small, indie presses that don't pay advances make nervous. I'm not all that good at judging them yet.

SaraC · Jun 10, 2017

Roxxsmom said:
I'm no expert, but wouldn't an agent who says, "No Christian or religious," be referring to the specific genre (or possibly demographic would be a better word, as there is Christian SFF, Christian romance, Christian contemporary and so on) known as Christian or Inspirational, which (as far as I know) has a pretty narrow set of criteria for what is acceptable and is aimed at a particular type of Christian or religious person?

Such an agent might not be opposed to a novel where the protagonist happens to be religious, even if it's something of a focus for him, any more than agents who don't rep romance would be opposed to any story with a romantic arc. Likewise, it's possible to have books with LGBT+ protags that aren't categorized or shelved as LGBT fiction specifically.

What I don't know is whether your novel reads like a Christian/inspirational novel, but one where the protagonist happens to be gay, or is it primarily an LGBT+ novel where the protag also happens to be Christian, or if it's truly a hybrid, or it's really a more general contemporary or genre novel whose protagonist happens to be gay and Christian? Again, I'm no expert, and I struggle with where some of the lines are too (when is a book with a YA protagonist not a YA novel; when is a fantasy novel with an important romantic arc and a HEA primarily a romance vs a fantasy). It's a matter of emphasis, but it could still be a somewhat blurry line.

I imagine that there are people who have struggled to reconcile their sexuality with their religious beliefs, so such a novel could connect with some readers, but it may not be under the umbrella of either Christian fiction or LGBT fiction specifically. Is the struggle to come to terms with being gay and Christian the main plot of your book, or is it something that's happening as part of the main character's arc as he is primarily focused on other story elements?

Thank you for the encouragement!

SaraC · Jun 10, 2017

Sage said:
Nothing wrong with having a religious character in YA outside of Christian fiction. If it is an important part of the character, there's no reason to avoid mentioning it either. On the other hand, it might not be a necessary part of the query. Lots of important stuff doesn't get added to the query. It's up to you to decide whether it's needed in the path you take in the query. It sounds like the faith vs. sexuality is a pretty important part of the character, though.

I agree with those who say that those agents saying "No Christian" are specifically talking about the genre of Christian fiction. My guess would be that that is not what you have here.

That makes sense. The query for this one is definitely a tough one to write. I'm planning to post it in Query Letter Hell sooner than later. Thank you!

Fuchsia Groan · Jun 10, 2017

If it helps, D3VOTED and CONV1CTION are two YA novels with strongly Christian MCs that are not "Christian fiction." I've only read the latter, but it has an LGBTQ-positive message, though the MC himself is not gay. Adding SF is something new, but I like the idea!

Undercover · Jun 11, 2017

Flux takes LGBTQ characters. The book they accepted from me is spiritual, especially towards the end. I don't think you have to coin your novel "Christian Fiction" either. I think you'd do better focusing what genre is stronger in your novel, which sounds like LGBTQ SF thriller.

Sounds interesting! Good luck with it.

SaraC · Jun 11, 2017

I'll add D3VOTED to my TBR pile in case it is a good comp, and will check out Flux! Thank you!

ConstellationSkies · Jun 17, 2017

Hello again, Sara~

Personally, I would pitch it harder towards those looking for LGBTQIA+ than those looking for Christian material. One, balancing one's religion and one's sexuality is a genuine struggle that many in the community face and identify with, so agents interested in LGBT+ stories will be more likely to appreciate it. There's definitely a (niche) market for it. Two, plenty of novels have main and/or side characters who mention their religion somehow that aren't labeled as Christian novels. Plenty of YA books have jewish, muslim, and christian characters, for instance. If this was a LGBT fantasy novel with a main character who was very involved in a fictional religion that banned attraction to the same sex, readers would appreciate the plot line and the character's struggle all the same.

So go for the market that will promote you. The Christian market will unfortunately fight you the whole way, but a solid handful of agents will recognize that straight, cis people can appreciate your book and plenty of people in the community would really identify with it.

Best of luck.

- Const.

Hard Sell (YA LGTB Christian SF) Need Advice

SaraC

Guerrien

Fire Bad, Tree Pretty

bmr1591

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Curlz

cutsie-pie

SaraC

CJSimone

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

SaraC

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

SaraC

SaraC

SaraC

Fuchsia Groan

Becoming a laptop-human hybrid

Undercover

I got it covered

SaraC

ConstellationSkies