Offer of representation by small publisher - how to proceed?

Cyia said:

You need to hone your research and wait skills.

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And also recognize that even with a good agent who finds you a great publisher who is a good fit for your book, there will *always* be a lot of researching and most especially waiting. Everything in the publishing world is waiting.

And, yes, for those of us with anxiety or depression it can be very difficult. Build up support mechanisms now (because the waiting is always there) or consider a different career because it never lets up. (I always think it will. "Once I get this draft done it'll be easier." "Once my agent sends this out on submission it'll be less stressful." "Once I sign this contract I won't have to worry." It never does. There is always more waiting, more things to worry over, more stress.)

If having to make a single decision and deal with a few days wait is pushing you into a severe spiral, you really need to consider that this may not be something you want to pursue long term. If it still is, find your support structure. (Not online forums, but actual professional help.)

Turniphead2 said:

@Old Hack - I've just said I have anxiety and depression: how on earth is that belittling mental illness?

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Hi, Turniphead2, I totally understand how you feel. I have five novels published through big 5 publishers, and two more under contract, and the whole publishing process can be crazy making. I say that as someone working with depression. If you need to vent to someone privately, just PM me here.

eqb said:

Hi, Turniphead2, I totally understand how you feel. I have five novels published through big 5 publishers, and two more under contract, and the whole publishing process can be crazy making. I say that as someone working with depression. If you need to vent to someone privately, just PM me here.

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Good grief, what is it with this thread and such pejorative terms?

Can we stop with the "crazy" comments now. Thank you.

Old Hack said:

Good grief, what is it with this thread and such pejorative terms?

Can we stop with the "crazy" comments now. Thank you.

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This.

Querying and being on submission and being under contract has caused me anxiety, it's caused depression, it's even caused mania once (in combo with some meds I shouldn't have been taking in the first place for something unrelated). It has never made me "crazy".

Hi Turniphead,

Congrats on your offer, and I wish you the best of luck whatever you decide. My first book is being published by big five publishers in a few territories next year, and I thought it might be useful for you to hear what that process has been like for me so far, in terms of timelines, editing and marketing etc.

I got my agent last year - think it was late August/September 2016. After I accepted the offer of rep I waited a few weeks, then got editorial comments from my agent. I spent about a month to six weeks doing that work, then went out on sub. I was very lucky and got offers quickly. Once I accepted an offer, the following happened:

I signed a contract (around beginning November 2016) and was paid a generous advance. Waited about two weeks and got a 17 page letter with structural editorial comments, put together by 3 editors across two publishers with more than fifty years publishing experience between them. I worked on that for 8 weeks through December and January. Sent it back to my publishers at the beginning of Feb. Three weeks later I got a fully marked up manuscript back for the first copy edit, plus a couple more pages of structural edits. I worked on that for about a month, then sent it back. Three/four weeks later I got the manuscript back again for another full copyedit. I had about three weeks to get that done and sent it back in around the beginning of May. My publisher has been working with a cover designer for months now on the cover - I have seen early concepts, and more advanced concepts and have been fully and generously asked for my input at each stage. My publisher is in the process of doing a proof run which will go to influencers - bloggers, book-buyers at major retailers, etc etc. I have completed an author questionnaire for marketing purposes and I have a publicist assigned to me whom I can call at any time. She has a whole list of stuff worked out for me that we are not getting into right now because my lovely publisher is giving me time and space to work on Book 2. I will get Bk 1 pages for proofing I think in about three weeks (I have a detailed schedule but am too lazy to look it up now). All of this is for a book (Bk 1) that comes out next March!!

Yes, that's March 2018. And honestly, every inch of the way has been a joy, a pleasure, and I would do four times the work all over again. I get to work with editors I deeply respect and admire, and I could not be more supported. Believe me, I get the impatience, the wanting to get there right now. And it is perfectly possible that your small publisher is exactly the right fit for you, so I am absolutely not saying not to accept the offer - only you can make that decision. I just wanted to take a moment to remind you that when you get out the other end, best case scenario, you have a chance of building a writing career. It's a small chance, even with a big 5 publisher at your back, because there are so many quality books coming out all the time. Ask yourself what you want, and if it's a long term career, ask yourself who you want to work with on the road to get there.

Best of luck,

Maggie.

Turniphead2 said:

Blogging
Guest Blogging
Goodread strat
Web Pr sites for books
Author website
Social media intertwined with all of the above.
Speeches.
Book events.
More social media.
Building an email list.
Maintaining that list.
Networking
Other stuff I forgot.
And a complex network of all of the above in order to sell and promote the book.

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I'm not Maggie, but I am trade-published and the biggest focus seems to be Write Another Novel. If you tried to do all the stuff you've listed, you wouldn't have time to write.

Turniphead2 said:

Can I say Crazy Horse?

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I've never heard anyone use the term, and I don't understand the reference. Is it a nod to Native American war leader Crazy Horse? If so, that would be unwise--we have Native American people actively part of this forum.

There are lots of alternatives you can use: stressful, irritating, outrageous, ridiculous, absurd, surreal.

If you're struggling, try to step back and think about what you're actually feeling. Some people shorthand to weak phrasing like "I had a crazy/insane day at work" when what they really mean is: I was busy, I had too much work, I was nervous about all the meetings, people kept stopping by my desk, the birds nesting in the air vents got out and pooped on my monitor.

It's actually a big advantage to us as writers to think beyond the first phrasing that comes to mind. You'll find yourself coming up with much more interesting descriptions!

Turniphead2 said:

Hi Maggie - glad you're enjoying the process; I just don't think I have the patience for a three year wait. And it could become a lot longer if I don't land an agent and an even longer one if the agent can't find a publisher; and if they do there's the good ol' two year wait.

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Unfortunately, I think you have two alternatives here.

1. Learn patience and self-care.
2. Find another way to enjoy writing that doesn't involve pursuing it commercially.

The often-times frustrating truth about pursuing writing as a money-making endeavor is that you will always be waiting for something. If you go the trade route, you'll be waiting for an agent, for a deal, for your edit letter, for your editor to read your edits, for the copy editor, for the book to come out, for... If you go the self-publishing route (and I mean do pursue it seriously), you will wait for your editor, your cover artist, your reviewers, etc etc etc.

The alternative is to set up something like a blog or something where you share your work for free.

Turniphead2 said:

I was on the writer PR page and it seems however you publish, the author needs to do a ton of work including

Blogging
Guest Blogging
Goodread strat
Commenting on other books.
Engaging with other writers.
Web Pr sites for books
Author website
Social media intertwined with all of the above.
Speeches.
Book events.
More social media.
Building an email list.
Maintaining that list.
Networking
Other stuff I forgot.
And a complex network of all of the above in order to sell and promote the book.

Seems to me you need to do all of the above however you publish - though you may get a pro book publicist doing some stuff if you're with a big pub house.

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If it's not too much trouble, can you link to the writer PR page you got this from?

The advice here seems kinda general and a little bit iffy.

The biggest issue is that it's all cart-before-the-horse. If you book isn't out for a year, the social media networks in use might entirely change by the release date.

Also...

• Guest blogging/blogging/social media/Goodreads have been widely used and most writers report slim-to-none sales impact.
• Public speaking, book events and networking are unnecessary and unwise for new writers. Public speakers should have experience!
• Commenting on other books? Huh? Like... on Goodreads? Because that's really strange advice.
• What's a 'web PR site for books' and how is it different from an author website? A separate domain registered for the novel? This is a flat-out unnecessary expense.
• And to repeat, all of this is really overthinking it at your stage.

Turniphead2 said:

These are all things listed in the how to PR your book section.

Turnip

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That doesn't mean anything to me, I'm afraid. The how to PR your book section of what, exactly?

I'm sure they're good ideas, or at least that they contain some good ideas, but as listed they're so broad as to be meaningless (Attend Book Events. What book events? How many? Where? Why?).

There are some things that you can and should do - they're specific and manageable - but the best is to write the next book.

Turniphead2 said:

These are all things listed in the how to PR your book section.

Turnip

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I'm lost, are you talking about the 'How to promote your book' sticky thread in the Book Promotion Ideas and Advice forum? Because the advice you're typing flies against a lot of what's written there.
(It's an excellent thread though, everyone should read it!)

So, when I was first starting to look for an agent there was a story in circulation here about a forum member who had gotten tired of rejections and gone the self-pub route. (And she had a good book and apparently tapped the right sources with her promo endeavors and got a significant return on her investment of time and money.) But, the kicker was that she had queried 13 agents, gotten rejections and been fed up with all the negative response on her work.

Okay. Not everyone is in it for the long haul. But here's the thing about publishing - the folks who find a quick way to the "top" are incredibly fortunate. For the vast majority - whether we seek trade publishing via an agent or direct submission or whether we do it all ourselves - face a *lot* of waiting.

I've been told by other self-pubbed authors in a similar genre (SF/F) that the numbers I've achieved as a relatively unknown author with a micro-press are quite good, but they are *tiny*. I'm working really hard to find that break, but there is so much waiting involved even though the submission to production time was fairly quick. (About six months.) Patience is a virtue here. If you can't drum up the ability to wait it out, you will fail as a career author.

(And it's a hard thing to learn. I hate waiting. But I want to be published well more than I want to be published right now which is why most of my work is on submission rather than self or micro-pubbed.)

Turniphead2 said:

Hi Maggie - glad you're enjoying the process; I just don't think I have the patience for a three year wait. And it could become a lot longer if I don't land an agent and an even longer one if the agent can't find a publisher; and if they do there's the good ol' two year wait.

I was on the writer PR page and it seems however you publish, the author needs to do a ton of work including

Blogging
Guest Blogging
Goodread strat
Commenting on other books.
Engaging with other writers.
Web Pr sites for books
Author website
Social media intertwined with all of the above.
Speeches.
Book events.
More social media.
Building an email list.
Maintaining that list.
Networking
Other stuff I forgot.
And a complex network of all of the above in order to sell and promote the book.

Seems to me you need to do all of the above however you publish - though you may get a pro book publicist doing some stuff if you're with a big pub house.

Amirite?

Congrats on your publication Maggie!
EQB I'm sorry you have some anxiety and depression - they can be tough to deal with. I must say after 25 years as a painter, books and all things publishing is a very stressful business however you go about it.

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What writer pr page?

Anyone telling you everyone has to do all that, including people who have trade publishing deals, is lying to you. They're also, I'm guessing, lying while telling you to use their site to self publish.

Is this a PR page for the small publisher who gave you the offer? Someone who might be wanting to sell you PR packages, perhaps?

Turniphead2 said:

Hi Maggie - glad you're enjoying the process; I just don't think I have the patience for a three year wait. And it could become a lot longer if I don't land an agent and an even longer one if the agent can't find a publisher; and if they do there's the good ol' two year wait.

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Write more books while you're waiting.

Turniphead2 said:

I was on the writer PR page...

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Which page? Link?

Turniphead2 said:

...and it seems however you publish, the author needs to do a ton of work including

Blogging
Guest Blogging
Goodread strat
Commenting on other books.
Engaging with other writers.
Web Pr sites for books
Author website
Social media intertwined with all of the above.
Speeches.
Book events.
More social media.
Building an email list.
Maintaining that list.
Networking
Other stuff I forgot.
And a complex network of all of the above in order to sell and promote the book.

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Nah. Some of those, sure. All of those? When are you going to find time to write your next book?

Turniphead2 said:

Seems to me you need to do all of the above however you publish - though you may get a pro book publicist doing some stuff if you're with a big pub house.

Amirite?

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A good publishing house -- whether one of the Big 5 or the independents -- will have a dedicated marketing and publicity people. They'll promote the books to bookshops and arrange for them to be sent to reviewers. They'll organise media interviews, festival appearances, book shop events, but generally only if those activities will be useful. IME, they know what they're doing and they are very good at their job.

Turniphead2 said:

Can I say Crazy Horse?

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You've been given very good advice and have reacted by being argumentative, insulting people, and taking misreading comments to a new level. And now we are done.