Wonder Woman

I say this, from the depths of my heart...

TAKE. THOSE. CORPORATE. ROBOTS. FOR. EVERY. THING. THEY. HAVE.

Watched it yesterday with Mr. Putt. I really enjoyed it. I can't even describe how I felt watching a female superhero who... *deep breath* IS NOT HYPER-SEXUALIZED, THANK YOU UNIVERSE, FINALLY. The male gaze has always been at the core of my uneasiness towards female superheroes...yeah, Black Widow's awesome and strong and whatnot, but I've always felt that she was created and packaged for men to jerk off to instead of for girls to look up to. Gadot was incredibly beautiful, but despite the tight-fitting outfit, there was no gratuitous cleavage or butt cheeks hanging out or anything. She was just...gorgeous in a way that didn't objectify her. FEELINGS. I HAVE THEM.

After the movie, I pointed this out to Mr. Putt, and he said, "Oh. Good point. I didn't actually notice that...which made me think...why bother with the whole "male gaze" thing? It's not really a selling point for a movie. I don't think men think, 'Ooh, female superhero movie, yeah I'll go to see that for the sexiness.' If men want to be titillated, they can always watch porn. It's so readily available now. And given the male gaze is something which is so harmful towards women, why bother with it?" Why indeed.

Aaanywho, yea, the movie isn't without its flaws, but it's a huge win for women, and I'm so happy it's out there and it's doing well.

Alessandra Kelley said:

Oopsie.

Looks like Warner Brothers didn't have enough faith in Wonder Woman to sign up director Patty Jenkins for a two-movie contract.

Now that the movie is doing very well and people are clamoring for a sequel, Ms. Jenkins is in a very good negotiating position for a second film.

Go women directors!

Click to expand...

damn, good for her!

Putputt said:

Watched it yesterday with Mr. Putt. I really enjoyed it. I can't even describe how I felt watching a female superhero who... *deep breath* IS NOT HYPER-SEXUALIZED, THANK YOU UNIVERSE, FINALLY.

Click to expand...

god, agreed. there wasn't a single boobs-and-butt pose. her armour was good to fight it, aesthetically pleasing, and strong.

Alessandra Kelley said:

Oopsie.

Looks like Warner Brothers didn't have enough faith in Wonder Woman to sign up director Patty Jenkins for a two-movie contract.

Now that the movie is doing very well and people are clamoring for a sequel, Ms. Jenkins is in a very good negotiating position for a second film.

Go women directors!

Click to expand...

It took a woman to finally get a DC movie right.

Saw an interview with Patty Jenkins about casting the Amazon women. Except for Diana's mother and aunt, she cast athletes, and it shows. Those women are strong and muscled; their outfits show some skin but that's practical for their lifestyle; and many of them are middle-aged (but still fit). I think that's a result of having a female director; not saying a male director would necessarily have gone for waif-y young actresses with boob-displaying armor, but it would've been more likely and that beach fight scene would not have been half so amazing.

On a completely different note, I have a theory that Steve Trevor's mother was a German immigrant (common in 19th century America), and that's why he speaks German fluently enough to pass in their army.

I don't think I have to say who my favourite heroine of all time is. I really need to go and see it.

Wonder Woman is still making that money.

Aggy B. said:

Yup. Lowest ever second week drop for a superhero film. (And that includes ensemble films, not just the single hero/origin story films.)

Click to expand...

My husband and I went to see it today, and we were surprised at how full the theater was on a tuesday afternoon showing. We gave up on going to the big local theater that does assigned seating, because there weren't any decent seats left online, even a few hours before. We went to a less fancy theater, and it was still pretty crowded with a line at the ticket office. Granted, school is just out this week for many in our area, but in general, even very popular movies are pretty empty by the second week.

We enjoyed it. It was imperfect but quite entertaining, and I enjoyed the way the characters related to each other. Folks are right that there were too few women present, besides Diane, Etta and Dr. Poison (who wasn't terribly well developed, though--warning spoilers--this article gives more insight), in the second part of the film, but that served as a contrast of the world Diana was coming from. Perhaps it would have been good if they'd shown how the military might have been very male dominated in WWI, but women actually stepped in and did many of the civilian jobs men had mostly done before.

Anyway, I'm glad that they finally made a WW movie, and I'm glad it's doing well at the box office and proving all the doubters wrong. It's sad that so many eggs are in so few baskets when it comes to the future of female-led movies, but that seems to be where we are right now.

Finally got to see it (in XD 3-D, which is basically knock-off IMAX).
It was a good movie. I think it desperately wanted to be Capt. America: the First Avenger, but didn’t quite hit that level, mainly because the camaraderie wasn’t as strong between the WW version of the Howling Commandos. There was definite backstory glossed over (most apparent in Charlie’s night terrors and his sudden return to singing, which would have been more impactful if we knew where and he was referencing in the dream, and if we knew he’d been a bad but happy singer who had lost his songs.)

It’s awesome to note, however that “Chief” is actually speaking Blackfoot and introduces himself as the trickster god/spirit, which WW acknowledges as a simple: “And I’m Diana.” I’d love to see a background short on his character to see if he was being serious or testing her knowledge of language.

The battle with the Germans on the beach was stunningly choreographed (though lacking in an explanation as to what happened to the gun ship), but my real complaint is the reveal of “the big bad” at the end. Thewlis is a wonderful actor, and few people can do sophisticated slimy / villain as well, however, he’s not a physically intimidating person. He has neither the build nor the swagger to play anything other than a “Littlefinger” kind of baddie.

They missed a real opportunity to turn the movie on its head by revealing Dr. Poison as Ares (or his sister Eris) instead. Making the seeming puppet, especially one presented as weak / disabled, the ultimate mastermind / goddess of war would have been a great turn. There was even a point during the conversation with Steve at the gala that made such a turn a possibility. Poison’s personality changed, becoming more forceful when she saw him staring at Diana. Having her be Ares would also explain the super-soldier gas that never really had a point. Her facial scars (assumed to be caused by her trade) could have been the result of Zeus’ lightning bolts. And with Diana being sculpted from clay, the use of the clay mask on her face could have been especially poignant.

The other option I would have loved to have seen played out would have been if Thewlis’ Ares took the form of Antiope for the final battle instead of the CGI-heavy armored stuff. Seeing Diana forced to square off between some form of the woman she’d looked up to, the woman whose crown she was wearing, and the woman she would hesitate to wound after the incident with the gauntlets would have been a more satisfying fight. They could have turned him back into Thewlis for the final blows.

It was good. Don’t get me wrong. But it could have been so much more.

I thought it was pretty good. The story was decidedly average, but the acting made up for it.

I don't think it's quite as much of a step forward as has been claimed though. I noticed that through most of the second and into the thirds acts, Wonder Woman played second fiddle to Trevor. He was the one making the majority of the choices that drove the story forward. Her choices were far more reactive. I also noticed that her arc completion was dependent on her relationship with him. So, a man is still at the core of a film that's supposed to be about a woman.

I'm suspicious this tag-teaming was part of the reason for the script's weakness. The writers may not have been consciously trying to have two leads, but they ended up with that, which meant they didn't have enough screentime to develop their antagonists.

LittlePinto said:

I thought it was pretty good. The story was decidedly average, but the acting made up for it.

I don't think it's quite as much of a step forward as has been claimed though. I noticed that through most of the second and into the thirds acts, Wonder Woman played second fiddle to Trevor. He was the one making the majority of the choices that drove the story forward. Her choices were far more reactive. I also noticed that her arc completion was dependent on her relationship with him. So, a man is still at the core of a film that's supposed to be about a woman.

I'm suspicious this tag-teaming was part of the reason for the script's weakness. The writers may not have been consciously trying to have two leads, but they ended up with that, which meant they didn't have enough screentime to develop their antagonists.

Click to expand...

It felt good that they decided to go to WWI instead of modern day.

Noizchild said:

It felt good that they decided to go to WWI instead of modern day.

Click to expand...

I'm a bit ambivalent about the choice to go with WWI. I feel like the horror of the Western Front was reduced to set dressing, which doesn't quite sit right with me. I suspect they would've had the same problem with any historic or current war, however.

I am a big WW fan but feel very disappointed by the movie plot and the ridiculous bad-guy/WW fight at the end. Also, couldn't someone have told WW that the Germans were human beings (not bad-guy cannon fodder) too? She might not have killed so many. And, again, we had this ridiculous "swords/shields and arrows are better than rifles and cannon fire" cliche. They're not, otherwise we'd all still be using them.

I liked the middle part once they left the island and arrived in Britain and I liked some of the action scenes.

But I won't be buying this on DVD. Only a few movies get that seal of approval from me.

LittlePinto said:

I'm a bit ambivalent about the choice to go with WWI. I feel like the horror of the Western Front was reduced to set dressing, which doesn't quite sit right with me. I suspect they would've had the same problem with any historic or current war, however.

Click to expand...

If you know anything at all about WWI you'd know that each "trench" has more than one line of defence.

And why does nobody ever shoot at her feet? Or from behind? Good luck deflecting those.

Keithy said:

If you know anything at all about WWI you'd know that each "trench" has more than one line of defence.

And why does nobody ever shoot at her feet? Or from behind? Good luck deflecting those.

Click to expand...

Ah, I know quite a bit about WWI. That's why I'm uncomfortable with how it was used in the film.

Keithy said:

I am a big WW fan but feel very disappointed by the movie plot and the ridiculous bad-guy/WW fight at the end. Also, couldn't someone have told WW that the Germans were human beings (not bad-guy cannon fodder) too? She might not have killed so many. And, again, we had this ridiculous "swords/shields and arrows are better than rifles and cannon fire" cliche. They're not, otherwise we'd all still be using them.

I liked the middle part once they left the island and arrived in Britain and I liked some of the action scenes.

But I won't be buying this on DVD. Only a few movies get that seal of approval from me.

Click to expand...

i'm very picky about adding to my DVD collection as well....but WW is getting in. i still remember the first DVD to begin my collection....which was Sixth Sense....LOL

Keithy said:

And why does nobody ever shoot at her feet? Or from behind? Good luck deflecting those.

Click to expand...

She's shot at from behind a few times in the alley scene, and at least one bullet bounces off her back in the warehouse.

Keithy said:

I am a big WW fan but feel very disappointed by the movie plot and the ridiculous bad-guy/WW fight at the end. Also, couldn't someone have told WW that the Germans were human beings (not bad-guy cannon fodder) too? She might not have killed so many. And, again, we had this ridiculous "swords/shields and arrows are better than rifles and cannon fire" cliche. They're not, otherwise we'd all still be using them.

I liked the middle part once they left the island and arrived in Britain and I liked some of the action scenes.

But I won't be buying this on DVD. Only a few movies get that seal of approval from me.

Click to expand...

It wasn't too bad. B vs. S was a disappointment from what I hear. And DC hadn't have a good movie track record until now.

I adore this video, "Me After Watching Wonder Woman" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-A3Yk82GKc

I liked that Steve had his own story arc, and think it worked well with Diana's story -- as she was learning about the complexities of "Man's World" from him, he learned about the value of idealism from her. It helped that the actors had great chemistry together. Although it does point out how wasted the (usually female) love interests are. Why introduce Jane Foster as a super-smart scientist, reduce her to damsel in distress, and then write her out of the subsequent Thor movies? The closest female equivalent we have to Steve Trevor is Peggy Carter from Captain America, and she had to wait for her own TV series to show her full badassery.

For those that are interested in what sort of a hot mess we could have had Whedon's WW MS has surfaced and here's a Twitter thread about it. There is also, I think, a link in that thread to the blog with the script in its entirety.

It's certain that Jenkin's film has some flaws. And it's pretty easy to go through and second guess how they might have done certain things better. But looking at Whedon's script (which, obviously, was rejected) it's also clear how much work had to be done to get where we are if his ideas were indicative of the basic starting point.

Aggy B. said:

For those that are interested in what sort of a hot mess we could have had Whedon's WW MS has surfaced and here's a Twitter thread about it. There is also, I think, a link in that thread to the blog with the script in its entirety.

It's certain that Jenkin's film has some flaws. And it's pretty easy to go through and second guess how they might have done certain things better. But looking at Whedon's script (which, obviously, was rejected) it's also clear how much work had to be done to get where we are if his ideas were indicative of the basic starting point.

Click to expand...

I'm scared to read the whole time.

Aggy B. said:

For those that are interested in what sort of a hot mess we could have had Whedon's WW MS has surfaced and here's a Twitter thread about it. There is also, I think, a link in that thread to the blog with the script in its entirety.

Click to expand...

OMG, that's execrable. What in hell was he thinking? Just from the little bit I read it was clear he made the guy the protagonist, had a lot of male gaze moments built in, and had numerous world building fiascos regarding Amazon culture. So glad that never saw the light of day.

Noizchild said:

It wasn't too bad. B vs. S was a disappointment from what I hear. And DC hadn't have a good movie track record until now.

Click to expand...

Weren't some of those Batman movies popular and well received?

Overall, though, they have less to work with than Marvel does. Aside from Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, all of the iconic superheroes that are known even to those of us who aren't part of the superhero/comic culture--X men, Capt. Marvel, Capt. America and the Avengers, Spiderman, Thor, the Hulk etc. I remember from my childhood are Marvel. Looking at the DC page, I don't know who most of these characters even are. I have heard of Green Lantern and the Flash, but I never knew or cared enough about either to want to see their movies, even if they'd been really well received.

I have only looked at parts (via the Twitter thread) and read the opening dozen pages. Whedon has the Amazons refer to Steve as "it". There's a lot of aggressive posturing between Diana and Hephastia (the Antiope of his script). And there is so much mansplaining in the later pages - Steve lecturing Hippolyta, Steve lecturing Diana... just ugh.

I told a friend (who still works with scripts and films every day) that it reminded me a little of (William) Goldman's style of writing after Goldman had gotten successful enough he could just write his scripts however he wanted, only without a lot of the talent/charm that Goldman had. And he was like "Yeah. It does."

Here's what I'll say about that script: there's no confirmation that it's Joss Whedon's. Now, I don't doubt that it actually is, but we don't know what stage of the process it is or who else may have touched the draft.