Synopsis - Do you need it?

ancon · Nov 17, 2017

okay...you all dragged me back in!

it was about ten years ago. i'd been trying to build up my writer profile and credentials by writing for websites and magazines (cover story for THE WRITER magazine...that helped) and had read every 'how to get published' book out there, trying to sell my first novel, and i decided one day to just paste the first chapter of the novel into the body of a email with that last line, 'please give me a shout if you'd like to read more.' within an hour, i was getting a lot of requests for the full mss. i had been working on that story for years and just not having much luck getting someone interested in it with the usual query letter, etc and i was so stunned by the attention, i asked who i was living with then, if she had heard of another writer with my same name. a real writer. ha! i thought it had to be some big mistake. novel was published, was a Book Sense pick, received a starred review from Publisher's Weekly, was a Barnes and Noble Book Club pick, etc. i guess all of that is why i am one to not always follow the rules. my query letter which started all of that broke all the rules. if my recollection is correct, i didn't even have my contact info below my name, etc. sometimes, i think the sunshine just comes through the window just right. only way to explain it. it was the same book i'd been trying to pitch for a long time with little luck. this is advice---don't give up on your stuff!

mccardey · Nov 17, 2017

Congratulations on all that success, it's great to hear - but Don't Follow The Submission Guidelines remains terrible advice to give new authors on a writers ' board.

ancon · Nov 17, 2017

ha. i believe you are more stubborn than i am!

mccardey · Nov 17, 2017

Just looking out for the new kids. :evil

bigbluepencil · Nov 17, 2017

Totally agree, mccardy. But congratulations, ancon, on your success. You're a rare one.

Helix · Nov 17, 2017

Congrats (much belated!) for that success, ancon, but offering advice based on a single data point doesn't help new writers.

ancon · Nov 17, 2017

i think you're wrong. i think it may help, but thanks for the good words. i think there are probably a gazillion stories like mine...authors who barely squeaked through the gates somehow when nobody was looking too hard or were going to the bathroom, etc. but tough to stay inside the big house and everything is so darn pretty once there! they will kick your butt right back out into the cold. it is a challenge, and for me, it is fun! it is the closest thing i can think of to fishing. real fishing. it's pretty much like all endeavors...difficult to find your way forward when you trip over your own shoes sometimes.

novicewriter · Nov 17, 2017

mccardey said:
...If you are already a very successful novelist with a reputation for being worth dealing with despite the Thing, it would be a kindness to mention it, in case new writers read this and think your advice applies accross the board. Which it doesn't. Obvsly.

Don't worry. Some of us new writers have researched literary agents' advice on this subject and are already aware that they advise authors to follow their submission instructions.

ancon · Nov 17, 2017

i think my thoughts apply across the board.

JJ Litke · Nov 17, 2017

ancon said:
i think my thoughts apply across the board.

Well bless your heart.

Having a synopsis can help spot structure problems while working on a manuscript. Even if someone plans to self-publish, it's a good idea.

ancon · Nov 17, 2017

of course it can be helpful, for some. thanks for the good wishes. i've said the same thing in this thread re a synopsis can help to spot structure problems, etc. bless your heart, too.

amergina · Nov 17, 2017

I actually did land an agent without sending a synopsis. But I also didn't query, either. I pitched in person, and sent two requested partials. I pitched one book, and she asked about another she'd heard me mention earlier that day. (Very small conference--I mentioned working on a m/m paranormal romance in passing to someone else.)

It was the partials that got me the fulls that got me an agreement.

HOWEVER--I had to learn to write synopses. Because they're a tool used to pitch manuscripts to editors at publishing houses. I've sold four books by writing three chapters and synopses for other books in the series. And the book that's currently my avatar? Sold only with a synopsis (to a pub I worked with before so they knew my writing). That book got a starred review in Publishers Weekly recently, so I can't be doing too bad with my method. *shrug*

I've found synopses very useful as a writing tool for myself. My first step in plotting out a book is to figure out the character arcs. Then I write a synopsis--from which I write a loose outline--then I write the book. Yes, sometimes bits of the story shift in the writing, because I'm still a bit of a discovery writer, but it's so useful to know the main flow of the novel, the shape of the story.

I initially hated synopses, but they really are a very useful tool for me both in the writing and the selling of my novels, so I'm glad I got over myself and learned how to write them.

And really, learning that was just a matter of sitting down and doing. Kinda like how I learned to write novels!

Sage · Nov 18, 2017

There are plenty of authors who got published by ignoring the rules and doing whatever they felt like. Their book spoke enough to the agent or publisher that they were willing to overlook the way it came to them. I remember a bestselling author speaking at a SCBWI conference about how he walked in to the publisher's office, only to find he was in their warehouse, and an employee took pity on him and introduced him to an editor, who loved his book and published it. But nobody's going to tell you to walk in to a publisher's office (much less their warehouse). Stories like that are much more interesting than "I followed the agent/publisher's submission guidelines and now my book's in stores," so they get told more and stand out when they do. It ignores the authors who were turned away at the door because it's a big no-no to visit the publisher's office with a pitch. It ignores the people who were rejected because they didn't follow the guidelines. Yes, there are agents who will say, "Oh, I love this pitch and first pages, but no synopsis... Okay, I'll ask for it with the full," but why take the risk that, instead, the agent (or the agent's slush readers) goes, "Hmm, can't follow directions. Problem client. Moving on"?

Synopses are not that scary. Really, they aren't. All you have to do is show that your book has a beginning, middle, and end and everything flows in a logical manner. Once you bite the bullet and write one, you have one to submit to every synopsis-requesting agent out there. Easy! And those agents know exactly what synopses look like. It's not groundbreaking to think that they're not as sexy as queries and the novel itself. They're not meant to be.

WeaselFire · Nov 18, 2017

ancon said:
you don't have to obey the rules...

And the people who make the rules don't have to accept your work. There are a whole lot of unpublished or poorly received self-published authors who decided to buck the system.

Jeff

ancon · Nov 18, 2017

good thoughts from all for sure. more wise than mine. i bucked the system a bit this evening...had a delicious buck venison tenderloin biscuit. i mean, it was delicious. but i think it can help to not think of a dang bit of trying to get an agent/get published et al as a 'system' but more of a journey, a date, or a strange meal.

out in the city, at night, you walk the sidewalk, hold the hand of your new special, you love the feel of her hand, and you eventually find a restaurant where the service is pretty terrible but you sit at a table and love every moment of where you're at and what you're doing and the way she smiles and the way they keep your water glass filled, the smell from the kitchen smells good coming out the doors of some places you walk by on a cold night, and this place smelled the best to your special one. so that's where you went with her, even thought you were scared you couldn't afford it. after looking at the menu, you may have to go to the bathroom to check your wallet if you have the loot to eat there. your hands shake counting the ones and fives and the three tens. it is all you have. there is nothing else. will it be enough...anyway, i just made that up and it;s rough and stinks but it is hard to get stuff like that in a synopsis: stephanie and joe went out to eat. they held hands walking down the sidewalk. joe looked at the menu and didn't know if he had the money to pay for the meal.

mccardey · Nov 18, 2017

Punctuation is your friend. Unless punctuation is another thing that doesn't apply to you...

Helix · Nov 18, 2017

ancon said:
good thoughts from all for sure. more wise than mine. i bucked the system a bit this evening...had a delicious buck venison tenderloin biscuit. i mean, it was delicious. but i think it can help to not think of a dang bit of trying to get an agent/get published et al as a 'system' but more of a journey, a date, or a strange meal.

out in the city, at night, you walk the sidewalk, hold the hand of your new special, you love the feel of her hand, and you eventually find a restaurant where the service is pretty terrible but you sit at a table and love every moment of where you're at and what you're doing and the way she smiles and the way they keep your water glass filled, the smell from the kitchen smells good coming out the doors of some places you walk by on a cold night, and this place smelled the best to your special one. so that's where you went with her, even thought you were scared you couldn't afford it. after looking at the menu, you may have to go to the bathroom to check your wallet if you have the loot to eat there. your hands shake counting the ones and fives and the three tens. it is all you have. there is nothing else. will it be enough...anyway, i just made that up and it;s rough and stinks but it is hard to get stuff like that in a synopsis: stephanie and joe went out to eat. they held hands walking down the sidewalk. joe looked at the menu and didn't know if he had the money to pay for the meal.

If the agent wants a synopsis, write a bloody synopsis

mccardey · Nov 18, 2017

Helix said:
If the agent wants a synopsis, write a bloody synopsis

Oh. And that. (And why is venison a thing?)

Helix · Nov 18, 2017

I'm actually writing a synopsis at the moment. It's not the most entertaining thing I've ever done, but it's a pleasant enough way to spend a too-hot-to-go-outside Sunday afternoon.

ancon · Nov 18, 2017

pretty tough group here. sense of humor is a bit...stiff as well.

if i have had success with my method, what in the world is wrong with me telling other writers about it...

they certainly get bombarded by what you all preach.

lizmonster · Nov 18, 2017

The thing is, if I gave people advice based solely on my personal experience in publishing, an awful lot of it would be lousy advice.

mccardey · Nov 18, 2017

ancon said:
pretty tough group here. sense of humor is a bit...stiff as well.

if i have had success with my method, what in the world is wrong with me telling other writers about it...

they certainly get bombarded by what you all preach.

ancon · Nov 18, 2017

i agree. across the board. as i said way earlier in this thread, there are lots of paths to the top of the mountain. i wouldn't tell anyone they should take mine. but i would tell them it is a path. suited me.

Helix · Nov 18, 2017

ancon said:
pretty tough group here. sense of humor is a bit...stiff as well.

if i have had success with my method, what in the world is wrong with me telling other writers about it...

they certainly get bombarded by what you all preach.

No one's stopping your from offering your personal experience, but I think you should probably also mention the degree of success that's come from it.

lizmonster · Nov 18, 2017

ancon said:
pretty tough group here. sense of humor is a bit...stiff as well.

if i have had success with my method, what in the world is wrong with me telling other writers about it...

they certainly get bombarded by what you all preach.

By your lights, Andy Weir's advice to writers would be "Spend 9 years researching and drafting your novel, crowdsource your betas, put it up on Amazon for a buck (because they won't let you give it away for free), and the trade pub and movie deals will be beating down your door!"*

By your own admission, you'd exhausted the ordinary query system for your novel. You had nothing whatsoever to lose. To suggest to new writers that they should start out by ignoring what the agents they're addressing are specifically asking for is irresponsible.

And my sense of humor is entirely intact, thanks.

*I may have some of the details wrong here, but AFAIK that's the gist of what Weir did, although I don't think he expected the door-beating-down bit.

Synopsis - Do you need it?

ancon

mccardey

ancon

mccardey

bigbluepencil

Helix

socially distancing

ancon

novicewriter

ancon

JJ Litke

People are not wearing enough hats

ancon

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member

ancon

mccardey

Helix

socially distancing

mccardey

Helix

socially distancing

ancon

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen

mccardey

ancon

Helix

socially distancing

lizmonster

Possibly A Mermaid Queen