Synopsis - Do you need it?

in response--i'm not making anything...more difficult.

ancon said:

in response--i'm not making anything...more difficult.

Click to expand...

Well, you're not making it more difficult for them.

ancon said:

in response--i'm not making anything...more difficult.

Click to expand...

Well ... you are. But only for yourself.

Your argument of "They should read the book, not the summary!" is lovely in theory, but it isn't the reality.

By your own admission, your stories sometimes fall apart before the end. That's what the synopsis is for -- it stops an agent wasting their time on something that doesn't hold together. It doesn't spoil the entire story (there's no way 1-2 pages can contain more than a fraction of a book's plot-lines). It's simply there to show an agent that your book is coherent; that the problems/goals raised at the start are resolved at the end.

Are they fun to write? IME, no. Are they a necessary evil? Yep.

ancon said:

i don't send them when asked. i state a simple truth--i would make JAWS boring in a synopsis. i just try to expose the bones/spine of what i've written, in a very brief paragraph or two without giving the twists and turns away. i want them to read the story, not the synopsis.

Click to expand...

All synopses are boring. They're not meant to be exciting, they're meant to be functional.

If you don't send a synopsis when asked for one, you might just as well not bother submitting.

ancon said:

i guess i like to be cantankerous at times! ha. i want them to read my novel, not a summary of it. they're trying to go down easy street scanning a synopsis. nah. don't like that. either read the story or don't. btw, a little bit of 'hard to work with' i believe is already checked by my name. i'm okay with it.

Click to expand...

Using a synopsis isn't "go[ing] down easy street", and suggesting that editors and agents use them in order to avoid reading submissions is not only showing that you're clueless in this instance, it's being very disrespectful towards them, too.

We read synopses to ensure the plot hangs together before committing hours to reading the full ms. Synopses aren't read instead of novels, they're read as part of the decision-making process.

ancon said:

you don't have to obey the rules, though, with submitting, etc. you can if you want to. lots of paths to the top of the mountain, as the old saying goes!

Click to expand...

Of course you don't have to obey the rules! But if you want representation by a good agent, or publication by a good publisher, you need to respect their needs and provide what they ask for.

I understand you don't like writing synopses, and think they're dull, and all of that. But you're not alone. Very few people like writing them. Very few people--agents and editors included--find them exciting or interesting. But they perform a very useful function: they show editors and agents that you can write a story that hangs together. That works. That doesn't suddenly change genre or veer into the unreal.

By all means, carry on not writing synopses. Just recognise that you're cutting off your nose to spite your face by doing so.

mccardey said:

I wonder - because I'm seeing a lot of people whose views I respect saying that it's hard - whether it falls somewhere along the pantser/plotter line. I find plotting almost impossible and terrifying and all the hard words - it's way beyond me. But once the thing's written, a synop is pretty easy. I just kind of write down what happened from the mc's point of view.

Query letters, though - they do seem like a special kind of hell.

Click to expand...

I don't like writing synopses or queries. It's hard to condense something you've taken 80,000 words to say into just a few paragraphs. Hateful things, they are.

I used to have to write book blurbs too. I hated that as well.

Old Hack said:

I don't like writing synopses or queries. It's hard to condense something you've taken 80,000 words to say into just a few paragraphs. Hateful things, they are. .

Click to expand...

You made my synopsis

ancon said:

i want them to read the real deal. the STORY. and they can choose to read it or not. up to them, of course.
,

Click to expand...

I want a pony.

Why do you think they, with inboxes stuffed with queries, should do what you want, if you can't bother to do what they want, exactly?

lizmonster said:

Assuming you actually want representation, why on Earth would you make it harder for yourself?

Click to expand...

This. Why set yourself up for rejection? Many agents/editors with hundreds or thousands of submissions will automatically reject an incorrect submission, thinking (probably correctly) that if the writer can't be bothered taking the time to send them what they are asking for then they won't have taken care over the novel either. Don't give them that opportunity. Usually they will read the first 3 chapters/10k words and only then glance over the synopsis to see where the story is going, and if that is for them.

ancon said:

in response--i'm not making anything...more difficult.

Click to expand...

There's an easy solution for you in all this: Don't query agents who require a synopsis. Problem solved. When I queried about 3 years ago, most US agents did not ask for a synopsis. I hear now that more and more are asking for one. I'm guessing this is because they've been burned so many times by MSs that are polished in the beginning and then fall apart in the second half. Requiring a synopsis isn't the "easy way out", it's more the efficient method. While interning for an agent, I found to my frustration that I'd sometimes fall in love with an MS which starts out wonderfully, only to fall apart in the second half. Two MSs come to mind:

MS1: Adult thriller. Brilliant writing, tension is amazingly built-up, characters are complex...and then in the last 1/3 of the book, it turns out literally EVERY single female character in the book is a sex offender preying on kids (the story is set in a high school). This obviously is a problem because 1, it's just not believable that all 4 female characters turn out to individually be sexual predators, and 2, just...ugh. Yech. The agent asked for an R&R, but ultimately the author didn't want to do one, so it was a waste of time for everybody involved.

MS2: Historical MG Fantasy. Lovely writing, very atmospheric, lovable MC...last fifty pages of the book, everything fell apart. The plot unraveled, the rules of magic which so far have been followed are suddenly broken willy-nilly (the MC can suddenly fly, which isn't a thing that has happened at any time and is unexplained, the bad guys suddenly have guns when the story is set in medieval England), and the MC, who's been plucky and amazing so far, suddenly turns into a shrill, helpless victim who has to be helped out of the final fight. Again, what a waste of everybody's time. The author did not get an offer, nor an R&R, because the MS required so much work to stitch back together.

Sooo personally, based on what limited experience I've had, if I were an agent, I would ask for a synopsis. As a writer, I would highly recommend learning to write one. When my agent submitted one of my MSs, an editor rejected it, but asked if I would be interested in subbing to her new imprint. The proposal would include: 3 chapters and a synopsis. Stuff like this happens. If you're going to reject them based on "I don't do synopses", you're just stacking the odds against yourself.

Putputt said:

If you're going to reject them based on "I don't do synopses", you're just stacking the odds against yourself.

Click to expand...

Which, of course, you are totally entitled to do and all the other submitting, synopsis-writing writers won't mind at all.

mccardey said:

Which, of course, you are totally entitled to do and all the other submitting, synopsis-writing writers won't mind at all.

Click to expand...

Well. Yes. Hur hur.

I don't get it. An author spends all that time writing a 70,000--100,000-word manuscript, but a one-page synopsis is an outrageous impost.

There's another thing you're missing here as well. Suppose you do get offered rep by the agent you didn't write a synopsis for. Suppose they manage to sell your book to a publisher without a synopsis. Big suppositions I know, but work with me here.

Suppose the publisher says "we love this and think it has potential to be a smash-hit trilogy."

It's great when that happens. You know what they'll say next?

"Send us the synopses for the other two books."

i certainly don't know anything but will try to clarify. if i want someone to read my novel, i send what i hope is a compelling query letter, and then, if they are interested, i submit sample chapters or the full mss. it's a pretty simple process. i do not want to send a summary of the story, except for the brief paragraph or two about it in the query. i want them to begin to read the story, not the summary. i have had luck with sending queries where the whole thing is dear mr or ms so-and-so followed immediately by the beginning pages, and at the end writing, 'if you'd like to read more, please give me a shout.' anything that works for a writer is a good thing. if a writer wants to craft a five or ten page synopsis and thinks it will help and has helped in the past, they of course certainly should. i do not thinks it helps me and it is not out of laziness for not doing it. it is that i find it less effective than how i go about things now. i do think blasting out a summary/rough outline can be helpful sometimes with a story that seems lost or has found itself in a corner, has grown tired, makes you want to bang your head on the keyboard, etc. basically more of a writing tool than a selling tool.

I'm not sure I've found any agent that wanted a synopsis instead of pages. For me it was always requested along with query+sample or along with a partial/full request. No one was reading my synopsis *instead* of my MS.

The agent I signed with did not ask for a synopsis with the query or the full MS. He *did* ask for one when he spent an hour and a half on the phone going through notes for revisions. (He wanted a synopsis/outline that would show him where/how I was planning to make changes before I spend 3 months making the revisions.) Then he wanted a synopsis for each sequel in the trilogy. As he has done with every other project I've sent him that is not a strict standalone.

The small press I'm working with wanted short synopses for sequels to the first series they signed. (And when I pitched them a second series a month or so ago it consisted of sample pages and, well, synopses for each book.) This is a common tool for editor and agents to get an overview of a project. Sure, they still want pages - that's what let's them know you can write. Sure, especially with the first/second project you show them, they will want the entire MS before they make any sort of decision.

Refusing to learn how to write one, or refusing to work with anyone who might ever want to see a synopsis, seriously cuts down your potential business partners. That is your decision, but you should be aware of how big a risk you are taking here. It's akin to pasting the whole MS into the email instead of the first five pages because you want the agent to "read the story." It doesn't matter how confident you are that once they read the opening lines they'll want the whole thing, that's not what they're asking for.

Best of luck.

ancon said:

i certainly don't know anything but will try to clarify. if i want someone to read my novel, i send what i hope is a compelling query letter, and then, if they are interested, i submit sample chapters or the full mss. it's a pretty simple process. i do not want to send a summary of the story, except for the brief paragraph or two about it in the query. i want them to begin to read the story, not the summary. i have had luck with sending queries where the whole thing is dear mr or ms so-and-so followed immediately by the beginning pages, and at the end writing, 'if you'd like to read more, please give me a shout.' anything that works for a writer is a good thing. if a writer wants to craft a five or ten page synopsis and thinks it will help and has helped in the past, they of course certainly should. i do not thinks it helps me and it is not out of laziness for not doing it. it is that i find it less effective than how i go about things now. i do think blasting out a summary/rough outline can be helpful sometimes with a story that seems lost or has found itself in a corner, has grown tired, makes you want to bang your head on the keyboard, etc. basically more of a writing tool than a selling tool.

Click to expand...

So, to be clear, what do you do when an agent replies to the query with 'sense me the first fifty pages and a synopsis' (or has similar in their query guidelines)? Do you just ignore them? Because that's a fairly rude way to start a relationship.

Synopses are used by agents to cut down on time spent reading stories that fall apart in the end, or end in a way that isn't their cuppa tea, and to show that the writer understands structure. By telling an agent "despite your request, I want you to read the full thing", what you are actually saying is "I value my time above yours" -- you're valuing the time it would take to learn how to make a good synopsis, and the discomfort you feel with the idea, above the time they'd be saved.

Starting off a conversation with a human by saying "I refuse to do something you've asked, that will make your life easier" is a negative way to start any social interaction. Does that make sense?

thanks for the thoughtful notes and good wishes. all good stuff and well received. this synopsis business can really stir up a hornets nest i have found out. ha.

i know how to write a synopsis. but i choose instead to write a brief paragraph or two in the query describing the story, a little about me, and then put it in a bottle with sample pages or the full mss (if requested), cork it and throw it into the ocean and see where the tides take it. i have had a bit of success with the method. i started out writing (trying to write) screenplays. found out i was too long-winded. not very good at it. my screenplay efforts read like novels with slug-lines. i would describe the curtains, the pout on a face, etc. i was taught early back then if someone in hollywood-land asked for a treatment, to try instead to get your script in front of their eyes. not the treatment (summary). i believe that to be good advice.

ancon said:

i have had a bit of success with the method.

Click to expand...

I'm very glad you've had success.

It's bad general advice, though. Most of the time when an agent or publisher asks for a synopsis, it's for a very specific reason, and if you can't or won't provide it you're severely limiting your prospects.

There are times when rule-breaking can work. Most of the time, though, you increase the chances of someone viewing your work when you follow the instructions they've laid out for you.

i may be being a hard-head about this, but if i have thought about a story for YEARS, tried to get a handhold on it numerous times but it always vanished, but then one day the sun shined on that thing and it was beautiful and i knew i had it but then it took MONTHS to court and woo it and finally write it all out as it finally came together and pouring out onto the page, and then spend more MONTHS reworking and honing that story...to me it is not too much to ask if someone is interested in that story, to at least read some of it, and not a summary of it. i don't care about the agent's time, etc. are they wasting time by reading my story instead of a summary...well if they think so, stop reading it. i care about the story finding the right place. like in a bar...you spot someone and you click. boom! it's there and you know it is. it is so different if your friend is describing someone you may click with.

ancon said:

i may be being a hard-head about this, but if i have thought about a story for YEARS, tried to get a handhold on it numerous times but it always vanished, but then one day the sun shined on that thing and it was beautiful and i knew i had it but then it took MONTHS to court and woo it and finally write it all out as it finally came together and pouring out onto the page, and then spend more MONTHS reworking and honing that story...to me it is not too much to ask if someone is interested in that story, to at least read some of it, and not a summary of it. i don't care about the agent's time, etc. are they wasting time by reading my story instead of a summary...well if they think so, stop reading it. i care about the story finding the right place. like in a bar...you spot someone and you click. boom! it's there and you know it is. it is so different if your friend is describing someone you may click with.

Click to expand...

You realise that if they've asked for a synopsis and you decide not to write one because Reasons, it's highly unlikely that you'll get read at all - even by an intern. If the package doesn't contain the requested items, an intern is unlikely to say Well, I'll just have a bit of a read anyway. They're going to say Can't follow instructions, just like the 30 other instruction-non-followers I've binned today.

Well they won't say that, because they're busy and time is pressing. They'll just bin it. But you'll get pretty much the same kind of form rejection - and parsing it for positive feels when it says "Not right for our list at this time" is not going to do you any favours either. But it's your career. I just wouldn't be throwing the Don't Follow The Rules advice around quite so freely until I had some pretty major weight behind it as a strategy. It's not good advice.

Newbie writers - follow the rules when you're submitting! Break them later, if you like, but give yourself a chance to get published before you start re-creating publishing.

i haven't been giving advice, just yakking about my viewpoint and experience. if i would give advice in this thread it would be to STAND OUT. find ways to separate yourself from the herd through your writing. your words. make them count. don't be so worried you may annoy someone by bending or ignoring some 'rule' or whatever, etc. good conversation. i'll bow out of it now...i'm getting a bit repetitive.

ancon said:

STAND OUT.
<<snip>>
don't be so worried you may annoy someone by bending or ignoring some 'rule' or whatever, etc. .

Click to expand...

That sounds like advice and it's really bad advice if the 'rules' you're suggesting should be ignored are the ones about suiting your submission to the agent/publishers guidelines.

ancon said:

you don't have to obey the rules, though, with submitting, etc. you can if you want to. lots of paths to the top of the mountain, as the old saying goes!

Click to expand...

This also sounded like advice. Bad advice. And yes, it is getting repetitive. You will submit in the way that suits you, but I do wish you'd stop suggesting that ignoring the publishers guidelines is going to help you stand out. Do your research. More people ignore the guidelines than follow them. It's not a Brave New Thing - it's just silly and unprofessional.

ancon said:

i may be being a hard-head about this, but if i have thought about a story for YEARS, tried to get a handhold on it numerous times but it always vanished, but then one day the sun shined on that thing and it was beautiful and i knew i had it but then it took MONTHS to court and woo it and finally write it all out as it finally came together and pouring out onto the page, and then spend more MONTHS reworking and honing that story...to me it is not too much to ask if someone is interested in that story, to at least read some of it, and not a summary of it. i don't care about the agent's time, etc. are they wasting time by reading my story instead of a summary...well if they think so, stop reading it. i care about the story finding the right place. like in a bar...you spot someone and you click. boom! it's there and you know it is. it is so different if your friend is describing someone you may click with.

Click to expand...

ancon said:

i haven't been giving advice, just yakking about my viewpoint and experience. if i would give advice in this thread it would be to STAND OUT. find ways to separate yourself from the herd through your writing. your words. make them count. don't be so worried you may annoy someone by bending or ignoring some 'rule' or whatever, etc. good conversation. i'll bow out of it now...i'm getting a bit repetitive.

Click to expand...

Ancon, I understand your point, I really do. We all want people to love our work because it's so good, and not because they read some little synopsis and thought that would do. We want people to understand.

Thing is, by taking this stance you're shooting yourself in the foot AND insulting publishing professionals AND insulting writers who have succeeded while writing synopses.

Yes, it's preferable for agents and editors to read the book rather than to judge it by reading a synopsis.

No, most editors and agents don't have time to read a book to find out if it hangs together properly after the first thirty pages.

No, it's not unreasonable for them to want to check that your book works before reading any further.

Yes, I can completely understand your stance.

No, I don't think it's a good way to proceed, despite that.

ancon said:

i certainly don't know anything but will try to clarify. if i want someone to read my novel, i send what i hope is a compelling query letter, and then, if they are interested, i submit sample chapters or the full mss. it's a pretty simple process. i do not want to send a summary of the story, except for the brief paragraph or two about it in the query. i want them to begin to read the story, not the summary. i have had luck with sending queries where the whole thing is dear mr or ms so-and-so followed immediately by the beginning pages, and at the end writing, 'if you'd like to read more, please give me a shout.' anything that works for a writer is a good thing. if a writer wants to craft a five or ten page synopsis and thinks it will help and has helped in the past, they of course certainly should. i do not thinks it helps me and it is not out of laziness for not doing it. it is that i find it less effective than how i go about things now. i do think blasting out a summary/rough outline can be helpful sometimes with a story that seems lost or has found itself in a corner, has grown tired, makes you want to bang your head on the keyboard, etc. basically more of a writing tool than a selling tool.

Click to expand...

When did that approach work for you? I'm just taking a flier here, but I'm going to guess it was a lot of years ago.

Yes, ancon, you need the synop

I've been lurking for a good while now, but your thread really struck me, ancon, so I had to respond. As a writer, I totally feel your pain, would rather have a tooth pulled without novocaine than write a synop. So, when reading the slush pile as an editor, I gave writers a break. Didn't read the synop. More important to me was jumping into the book and reading as if I were a public reader. If hooked, I tried to snatch that book and author for my roster. If a plot twist or character's actions stymied me (at our pub, we had to read the entire ms unless it was just too horrible to go on), I checked the synop to see what was supposed to have happened/get a better sense of the character. If the book had captured me, the query was polite and friendly (which told me I'd enjoy working with the author), I'd keep reading 'til the end with the mental note that the wacky area would be a discussion with the writer later. We required a two or three page synop, query and entire ms for subs. Senior editors, like me, if the synop wasn't there and the blurb in the query didn't grab us, we'd ask the publisher to just push the instant reject button. We were a very small pub, but a slow day was six books in the slush pile. Minimum word count 60K. 30 authors were already on my roster. Hungry to add to their list, a junior ed might protest instant rejection if the writer were lucky. But then the publisher would request a synop from the author. Thems the rules, at least at ours.
Each point everyone has made here is exactly on target. They absolutely know what they're talking about and you should take their advice or expect a ton of rejections. They're trying to save you frustration and heartache. Moi? More than twenty rejections before I became an editor just so I could learn what editors wanted. But, think of this too: The synop is often waaaay more important once your work has been accepted. If, as at our pub, a team writes the blurb and tag line, they need it. They're not paid enough to read your entire book, and you'd want the best marketing, right? Whoever creates the cover also might want it to refer to. I managed the line editors too; often they're not given a synop, but they're the last bastion before your book goes live/hits the presses. If a plot point mystifies them, they need the synop to advise you and your ed on corrections.
Maybe two of my roster authors actually liked writing synops and were good at it. The writer me worshiped at their altar. With the others, I had a support group. JK, but not really. They'd send me their sub, I'd read it and send them a long email that was totally "this happened then this happened then this happened." They'd write the synop, and if I loved the book, I'd ask acceptance. Your beta readers might do that for you, saving you from banging your head against your keyboard. The synop, after all, is all about objectivity, whether you're a pantser or a plotter. If you have no beta readers, a good trick is to put your work on 75% on Print Preview(I use Word) or the equivalent. Objectivity gained.

My agent asked for a synopsis after seeing the query and sample pages. Not all of them do, but it's a good thing to have on hand.

I understand the reluctance to send one. I'm not too good at synopsis-writing (is anyone?) and there are times in the past when I've screwed myself over by sending a bad synopsis that did a poor job of capturing what actually happened in the story, or that left out the most interesting aspects because I didn't quite know how to distill them into summary form. The idea that you might harm your own chances with a bad synopsis of a good story is frustrating. But if the agent asks for one and you refuse to send it, then chances are--unless they really really really liked your query and sample pages--they'll just hit the auto-reject button. They have plenty of other queries to wade through.

Synopsis-writing is a skill that's worth getting at least passably good at.