New Editor Questions

raenicole

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Hello, all! I'm in need of some editing advice. I apologize if this has been asked before--

I recently took up an editorial internship with an independent publisher, and I've found that I'm not really being taught but rather tossed into the deep end and expected to edit a 200+ page manuscript...

Not exactly what I was expectng, but I'm grateful and excited for the opportunity. The company was started by someone very young and the literature being published isn't exactly high quality, but it's something to put on my resume and only for the summer, which makes it feel worth it.

As a baby editor, I have some questions:

  1. How should I word my comments? I've never edited a full fiction manuscript before; I'm very recently out of college and am more versed in editing academic papers for pals. My comments always veer towards too wordy and too nice. Are there "guidelines" for editing? Is this something specific to different companies/individual editors?
  2. My supervisor instructed me to "leave comments and look for grammatical errors", which is all well and good, but I don't really know how in-depth to look. What I'm really doing is looking for grammatical errors, general continuity, and readability.
  3. I ordered the Chicago Manual of Style but does anyone know of any other places to look for fiction editing?
  4. Additional question: How do I know if I'm going overboard with edits? At what point do I cross the threshold of grammatical errors to "quality of writing"? This manuscript is... bad. Am I even qualified to say something is bad? Help, I'm a fraud.


The more I type, the more it seems like this is all hopeless and my supervisor is giving me too much. Oh well, I've never been a quitter.

Any and all advice would be hugely appreciated!
 
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Sleeping Cat Books

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How should I word my comments? I've never edited a full fiction manuscript before; I'm very recently out of college and am more versed in editing academic papers for pals. My comments always veer towards too wordy and too nice. Are there "guidelines" for editing? Is this something specific to different companies/individual editors?

You should be concise and to the point, but polite. Think of how it would read if someone wrote it to you, in your manuscript.

My supervisor instructed me to "leave comments and look for grammatical errors", which is all well and good, but I don't really know how in-depth to look. What I'm really doing is looking for grammatical errors, general continuity, and readability.
You don't specifically say what type of editing you're supposed to be doing, but I'll assume copy editing. Generally copy editing includes checking for grammar, usage, spelling, punctuation, and other mechanics of style; checking for consistency of mechanics and for internal consistency of facts; editing tables, figures, and lists.

I ordered the Chicago Manual of Style but does anyone know of any other places to look for fiction editing?
You should be aware that CMoS is written with nonfiction in mind. Many fiction editors use it loosely, but your publisher should have an in-house style guide that they use to ensure that all their publications have the same basic style. If they don't, at least ask what style guide they'd like you to use.

How do I know if I'm going overboard with edits? At what point do I cross the threshold of grammatical errors to "quality of writing"? This manuscript is... bad.
If there are errors, it's your job to fix them. No matter how many there are. But it's not your job to change the author's voice, their style of writing. Larger structural issues are also not your job, if you're copy editing. That would be a structural/developmental editor, which should come before copy editing.

Good luck!
 

Old Hack

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Wow. That sounds really bad. I'm sorry you're in this position.

You've already had good advice from SCB. I would add that you should speak to your boss, and ask him or her those questions.

I hate to think of the poor writers who have signed to this press who are getting edited by someone with no experience, and no idea how best to go about it. This is no criticism of you: you're doing the right thing by asking questions.

You could ask your supervisor to give you some examples of appropriate editorial comments; you could work through a chapter or two then ask for her to check your work.

If you've been asked to comment on just the grammatical errors, then focus just on that unless you notice anything glaring--plot holes, etc. Point out all you see, including problems with punctuation. Remember dialogue is different, and odd grammar there can be a good characterisation tool (so long as it's done consistently). And remember it's up to the writer to make changes: your job as an editor is to point out problems, suggest solutions where they're simple (like with grammar and punctuation), and to then pass it back to the writer for the writer to correct.

But mostly, keep checking back with your supervisor to make sure you're doing it right.
 

Gillhoughly

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Working for a "publisher" who cheerfully accepts bad manuscripts is not going to be an item to put on your resume. You clearly need more experience in basic fiction editing. You are not a quitter when you leave a ridiculous job run by an incompetent.

There are plenty of incompetent publishers out there and they will accept terrible books, either as part of a scamming for cash operation or as well-meaning but in over their head newbies who know nothing about the business.

I worked for such a publisher on exactly one manuscript. It wasn't bad, but it could have been better had I been allowed to interact with the writer on her book. She missed opportunities and otherwise botched things. The "boss" -- whose background was in marketing -- was more focused on getting that hot mess up and selling rather than delivering a readable book to buyers. (Yes, the place actually thought they could make money in publishing. Just spit those books against a wall and see what sticks.)

The house went under.

This is going to be hard for you to read, but they should never have hired you. You don't have the experience for the job when you are asking such basic questions as listed in your post. You DO know a good book from a disaster, so that is a start. That your employer does not or doesn't care is a red flag for both you and writers.

Get out, get to a library, and read books from cover to cover about the editing process. If you want to widen your editing experience, offer feedback here on the AW Share Your Work forum. It doesn't pay, but you will better understand how to edit fiction.

You can offer free edits on short excerpts to writers in exchange for their feedback on your editing. You absolutely need the experience.

Perhaps you are better equipped to edit non-fiction. Go with it, then, but don't waste time with a publisher hellbent on uploading stinky books to sell. It will drive you straight to burnout and you don't need to deal with that.
 
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Old Hack

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I find myself agreeing with Gill. I am worried that this publisher is using unpaid interns rather than paying competent editors. It can't end well.
 

Earthling

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Working for a "publisher" who cheerfully accepts bad manuscripts is not going to be an item to put on your resume. You clearly need more experience in basic fiction editing. You are not a quitter when you leave a ridiculous job run by an incompetent.
+1 to everything Gillhoughly said, but especially this part. I can't see how this is going to do your future career any good, and could be damaging if (as seems inevitable) this publisher becomes known for putting out terrible books.

Either push back and give firm boundaries of what you are and aren't prepared to do, based on your qualifications and experience, or leave. Neither you or the authors deserve to be in this position.
 

raenicole

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Woof, thanks everyone, this really is helpful. I'm a little crestfallen, but I can't say I disagree.

Hack: I definitely think this publisher is garnering help from unpaid interns because we're desperate. I should have known from the interview and the quality of the lit that it was going to be unprofessional. Alas!

Gillhoughly: Do you have any specific books to recommend? I want to start reading right away, get myself something better than... well... this. And while I agree that I am MASSIVELY underprepared in this field so far, wouldn't most companies train their interns? Or was their a step between college and internship that I should've taken? Thank you for your help; I really do appreciate your words of wisdom.
 

Old Hack

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Woof, thanks everyone, this really is helpful. I'm a little crestfallen, but I can't say I disagree.

Hack: I definitely think this publisher is garnering help from unpaid interns because we're desperate. I should have known from the interview and the quality of the lit that it was going to be unprofessional. Alas!


Desperate is never a good sign in a publisher. Publishing bad literature is a whole forest of red flags, I'm afraid.

Gillhoughly: Do you have any specific books to recommend? I want to start reading right away, get myself something better than... well... this. And while I agree that I am MASSIVELY underprepared in this field so far, wouldn't most companies train their interns? Or was their a step between college and internship that I should've taken? Thank you for your help; I really do appreciate your words of wisdom.

There are good books about editing, but there are also several memoirs written by editors which can be useful too. I'll see if I can put together a list for you.
 

Anna Iguana

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Hi, raenicole. From interning and hanging out with interns (not in publishing), I infer that, though supervisors are mostly doing the best they can, interns often don't receive adequate training. You're not alone. Echoing others, I appreciate that you're trying to fill in the gaps. From working as an editor of academic journals, I wanted to highlight this:

You could ask your supervisor to give you some examples of appropriate editorial comments; you could work through a chapter or two then ask for her to check your work.

Ask to see examples of marked-up manuscript pages that your supervisors have sent to authors. That can provide a lot of guidance while asking little of supervisors stretched thin. I'm sending good wishes for your situation.
 

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Gillhoughly: Do you have any specific books to recommend?

Old Hack is kindly providing a better list than I could assemble. I go to the library and just grab everything, then check the bibliographies for other titles available via Inter Library Loan.

One of my issues these days is that the editors I get tend to be fresh out of school and clinging to the Chicago Manual of Style as though it was a flotation device. They can also be woefully short in general knowledge as I found out when a youngish editor was clueless about basic history. Rather than a quick Google search to see if I was wrong about a point, she put in margin notes instead that assumed I was wrong. (I wasn't.)

The real need is for editors who can tell whether a phrase or a whole scene works or not. Anyone can copy-edit, given the training, but you need experience to do content and developmental work.

When the publisher is accepting stinky books, books with crappy writing, books no reader in their right mind would waste time on, then you need to leave. You won't learn anything in that toxic environment except new facets of disappointment.

Most wannabe editors start by reading the slush pile. They learn fast just how bad the writing can be, and just when you think a writer has hit rock bottom, along comes another who digs even deeper.

From where I sit, it looks like this place wants you to edit the slush pile.

Run for the hills. Don't look back.
 

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Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but if you read a part you really like, comment and let the author know. Amidst the plethora of red marks and revision-suggestions, seeing a "Oh my gosh this is so good" is really encouraging, at least in my experience.
 

raenicole

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Thank you so, so much everyone. You're all incredibly kind for offering your help; I'm going to reach out to my supervisor and bring up my concerns.
 

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I suspect you had better turn in your two-weeks notice when you do. This kind of would-be literary venture is either so badly conceived that nothing you or the publisher can do will make it turn out well; or else was started purely to take advantage of writers. Because of the age of the person involved, I'm suspecting the former.

Reading editing books will be to your advantage, no matter what. But I would leave the job and then read the books.
 

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Get Out! One thing you must do and that's make sure that you are not listed as editor on the amazon listing. Some small publishers do that. It's the kiss of death for you if a good publisher looks you up by name. I had a self-published author do that to me (although I didn't edit the book, just critiqued it), and I had to call him and tell him to change the listing. He got most of them off, but I'm actually listed as an author on at least two of his books (ones I never read and never will read). Persistent devil, but I must keep after him not to do that and have notified amazon to take my name off the listings.
 

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I recently took up an editorial internship with an independent publisher, and I've found that I'm not really being taught but rather tossed into the deep end and expected to edit a 200+ page manuscript...


Welcome to the intern world. Not sure why you thought an internship was for teaching you, it's for you to get experience doing. And your employer to get cheap labor.


As a baby editor, I have some questions:

  1. How should I word my comments? I've never edited a full fiction manuscript before; I'm very recently out of college and am more versed in editing academic papers for pals. My comments always veer towards too wordy and too nice. Are there "guidelines" for editing? Is this something specific to different companies/individual editors?
  2. My supervisor instructed me to "leave comments and look for grammatical errors", which is all well and good, but I don't really know how in-depth to look. What I'm really doing is looking for grammatical errors, general continuity, and readability.
  3. I ordered the Chicago Manual of Style but does anyone know of any other places to look for fiction editing?
  4. Additional question: How do I know if I'm going overboard with edits? At what point do I cross the threshold of grammatical errors to "quality of writing"? This manuscript is... bad. Am I even qualified to say something is bad? Help, I'm a fraud.
1) What kind of editing are you doing? What are the publisher's guidelines for edits and how you do them?

2) Then leave comments as you see fit. Find EVERY grammatical error, comment on any continuity issues and all readability issues. Suggestions for continuity and improved reading are probably expected.

3) You should already have the CMS and, if that's what your publisher edits to, that's what you use. As an editor, commit it to memory. And figure out when it's wrong. :)

4) Your job is to improve bad manuscripts. But you can't save everything. If the publisher signed a contract with the writer they must expect something, if they didn't sign a contract, your editing is just to keep you busy. Try asking your boss what they saw in this manuscript that made them sign the author. Then work to bring that out.

Always remember, it's not your story, it's the author's.

Jeff
 
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Welcome to the intern world. Not sure why you thought an internship was for teaching you, it's for you to get experience doing. And your employer to get cheap labor.



1) What kind of editing are you doing? What are the publisher's guidelines for edits and how you do them?

2) Then leave comments as you see fit. Find EVERY grammatical error, comment on any continuity issues and all readability issues. Suggestions for continuity and improved reading are probably expected.

3) You should already have the CMS and, if that's what your publisher edits to, that's what you use. As an editor, commit it to memory. And figure out when it's wrong. :)

4) Your job is to improve bad manuscripts. But you can't save everything. If the publisher signed a contract with the writer they must expect something, if they didn't sign a contract, your editing is just to keep you busy. Try asking your boss what they saw in this manuscript that made them sign the author. Then work to bring that out.

Always remember, it's not your story, it's the author's.

Jeff

The better internships do teach the interns about the industry they're working in. The worst ones expect them to provide cheap or free labour.

Note that editors working on a first pass through the book will often overlook errors in grammar and spelling, as they're more concerned in getting the plot, structure, characterisation right.

CMoS isn't the best style manual for fiction, and is very technical and complex for most writers and new editors to follow. A publisher's own style guide would be more useful at this point. And a first pass through a ms isn't the time to worry about CMoS. It's more appropriate at the copyediting stage.

I do agree that editors should remember that it's the author's book, not theirs. That's essential.
 

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Just a drive-by post to recommend the hell out of Browne and King's Self-Editing for Fiction Writers. Great book for learning to identify and discuss specific problems in a manuscript.
 

Barbara R.

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Kudos for realizing you need help and asking for it.

I teach fiction writing and editing, so I've got a large library of books on the subject. This is one of the best. I'm also a huge fan of Janet Burroway's WRITING FICTION, which taught me more than any other book on writing. It's a college text, so it's pricy, but well worth it if you want to stay in this field.

Good luck with your current job!