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Biology: The thoughts of a spiderweb

Introversion

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Spiders appear to offload cognitive tasks to their webs, making them one of a number of species with a mind that isn’t fully confined within the head.

Quanta Magazine said:
Millions of years ago, a few spiders abandoned the kind of round webs that the word “spiderweb” calls to mind and started to focus on a new strategy. Before, they would wait for prey to become ensnared in their webs and then walk out to retrieve it. Then they began building horizontal nets to use as a fishing platform. Now their modern descendants, the cobweb spiders, dangle sticky threads below, wait until insects walk by and get snagged, and reel their unlucky victims in.

In 2008, the researcher Hilton Japyassú prompted 12 species of orb spiders collected from all over Brazil to go through this transition again. He waited until the spiders wove an ordinary web. Then he snipped its threads so that the silk drooped to where crickets wandered below. When a cricket got hooked, not all the orb spiders could fully pull it up, as a cobweb spider does. But some could, and all at least began to reel it in with their two front legs.

Their ability to recapitulate the ancient spiders’ innovation got Japyassú, a biologist at the Federal University of Bahia in Brazil, thinking. When the spider was confronted with a problem to solve that it might not have seen before, how did it figure out what to do? “Where is this information?” he said. “Where is it? Is it in her head, or does this information emerge during the interaction with the altered web?”

In February, Japyassú and Kevin Laland, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Saint Andrews, proposed a bold answer to the question. They argued in a review paper, published in the journal Animal Cognition, that a spider’s web is at least an adjustable part of its sensory apparatus, and at most an extension of the spider’s cognitive system.

This would make the web a model example of extended cognition, an idea first proposed by the philosophers Andy Clark and David Chalmers in 1998 to apply to human thought. In accounts of extended cognition, processes like checking a grocery list or rearranging Scrabble tiles in a tray are close enough to memory-retrieval or problem-solving tasks that happen entirely inside the brain that proponents argue they are actually part of a single, larger, “extended” mind.

Among philosophers of mind, that idea has racked up citations, including supporters and critics. And by its very design, Japyassú’s paper, which aims to export extended cognition as a testable idea to the field of animal behavior, is already stirring up antibodies among scientists. “I got the impression that it was being very careful to check all the boxes for hot topics and controversial topics in animal cognition,” said Alex Jordan, a collective behaviorist at the Max Planck Institute in Konstanz, Germany (who nonetheless supports the idea).

While many disagree with the paper’s interpretations, the study shouldn’t be confused for a piece of philosophy. Japyassú and Laland propose ways to test their ideas in concrete experiments that involve manipulating the spider’s web — tests that other researchers are excited about. “We can break that machine; we can snap strands; we can reduce the way that animal is able to perceive the system around it,” Jordan said. “And that generates some very direct and testable hypotheses.”

...
 

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So why aren't spiders considered tool users?
 

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Good question. Do we consider it a tool only if it's something picked up and shaped, not created from one's own body?
 

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Good question. Do we consider it a tool only if it's something picked up and shaped, not created from one's own body?

I can't see this interpretation:
The suggestion that some of a spider’s “thoughts” happen in its web fits into a small but growing trend in discussions of animal cognition.
Animals have many innate behaviors. My dogs knew how to dig up and catch voles without ever seeing another dog do it and without trial and error. They smelled/heard the little buggers in the ground, dug like crazy and managed to catch them more times than I care to remember. I have no voles but just as many holes in the yard. That had to be hardwired behavior.

Watching the different bird nest cams, it's amazing but when only a few days old, baby hummingbirds, osprey and eaglets are already potty trained. Falcons on the other hand are clean-nest challenged. And how they don't fall out of their nests more often suggests they have an innate behavior for that.

Here we have spiders simply displaying a different innate behavior based on an altered web. To philosophize that the web is directing the behavior reminds me why I find biology so much more useful that philosophy. :tongue

That's not to say I'm in the 'animals don't have intelligence' camp. I've long been fascinated wondering what it must be like within the consciousness of spiders or octopi or my dogs. Hunting spiders are particularly intriguing when it comes to behavior, is it intelligent or reflexive? And the fact octopi have some kind of brain or neural tissue in their tentacles? That's universe contemplating sci-fi gold there.
 
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Good question. Do we consider it a tool only if it's something picked up and shaped, not created from one's own body?

In my world view, webs are definitely in the tool category. We humans have a number of lingering biases about tool definition and use. We like to think ourselves different from animals and the assertion, only humans use tools was one way to do that. Clearly that has since been disproved. Crows and non-human primates don't just use tools, they fashion them to use as well.
 

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Oh, clearly some animals make tools. Or at least, pick up materials and wield them as tools.

Where it's fuzzier to me is when what's being used is neither found nor shaped, but is just a product of the "user's" body. I don't think a cobra spitting venom is a "tool user". Not sure a spider spinning a web is either?

Not making any claims to whether the web is "extended cognition" either. Just thought it was an interesting article. :)
 

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Oh, clearly some animals make tools. Or at least, pick up materials and wield them as tools.

Where it's fuzzier to me is when what's being used is neither found nor shaped, but is just a product of the "user's" body. I don't think a cobra spitting venom is a "tool user". Not sure a spider spinning a web is either?

Not making any claims to whether the web is "extended cognition" either. Just thought it was an interesting article. :)
It is an interesting article.

Poison is not defined as a tool as far as I know. Fertilizer is not a tool. Food is not a tool. I wouldn't call bait a tool either.

Nets are tools. People fashion tools out of bones, so a bone can be made into a tool.
 

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It is an interesting article.

Poison is not defined as a tool as far as I know. Fertilizer is not a tool. Food is not a tool. I wouldn't call bait a tool either.

Nets are tools. People fashion tools out of bones, so a bone can be made into a tool.

People make nets out of hair, too. Really, truly.
 

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Hmm.

Well, I'm not convinced that instinctive/programmed use of a bodily secretion counts as tool making/use.

But. :greenie When a ruined web is used in an entirely different fashion...upcycling? :greenie

OK, how about these then? Amazingly Intricate Spider Web Uses Suspended Rock As An Anchor

Tool Use by Spiders: Stone Selection and Placement by Corolla Spiders Ariadna (Segestriidae) of the Namib Desert

And what if the web is used actively rather than passively? Watch a spider use a portable net to capture its prey
Commonly known as "gladiator" or "net-casting" spiders, these spindly legged beasties actually build cobweb sacks which are held open with the front legs and use to ensnare unsuspecting prey. It's absolutely remarkable to watch; in the video up top, David Attenborough narrates the activities of a net-casting spider as it prepares its gossamer pouch, and uses it to seize a cricket.

video here



Note: I may have to rethink bait as a tool.
 
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I'm very strict about how to define "tools". For me, you'd have to reasonably demonstrate that these objects are chosen and used consciously. And that failure leads to refinement (as opposed to being instinctively opportunistic about, say, a broken web strand).

Tool selection/modification/deployment is not part of a species' code, it is part of culture.
 

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I'm very strict about how to define "tools". For me, you'd have to reasonably demonstrate that these objects are chosen and used consciously. And that failure leads to refinement (as opposed to being instinctively opportunistic about, say, a broken web strand).

Tool selection/modification/deployment is not part of a species' code, it is part of culture.

So how about the web anchor? (Link in post #10)

From what I gather not all the web locations require a rock anchor, so it's not automatic behavior. I'll have to find some more sources on that.
 
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The first article ends with an expert opinion that the spider has not made a conscious choice about the rock or the behavior. :Shrug:

For individuals who repeat a design/behavior, you would have to rule out genetic blueprint explanations.
 
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The first article ends with an expert opinion that the spider has not made a conscious choice about the rock or the behavior. :Shrug:

For individuals who repeat a design/behavior, you would have to rule out genetic blueprint explanations.

Keep in mind this is either an unusual solution to a too-wide span, or an accidental occurrence where the original anchor point was on the ground and the rock accidentally lifted up. I think we can question the latter given how the web wraps around the rock in a net configuration. I've not seen the web anchors on my balcony wrap around in quite that configuration. For that matter, I've never seen a spider use a rock as an anchor. Now I'm going to have to keep a look out for web anchor points.

The web was photographed and spread virally around the Net. It's not like the species of spider is well known to use rock anchors all the time:
So is this truly a stroke of genius? As pointed out by io9, there’s a pretty interesting discussion about the overachiever on Reddit where a few experts have shared their thoughts on the phenomenon. One user, entomologist Jay180, offers his explanation:

"This is not as uncommon as you think. Basically, the spider is looking for good anchor points. It pulls on all the lines to check for stability as it’s making the web. As far as it knows that line is attached to the ground. That rock is just heavy enough to keep the line taut but not so light the spider would pull it all the way up."

Another user, former zoo spider keeper Potato_Johnson, thinks that the spider did not do it on purpose:

"I’ve worked with spiders for years and every spider that makes these aerial webs does it the same way; they anchor some web to an object, produce an extra long strand trailing behind them as they climb up and around obstacles, and then put tension on the line once they’re back up to the top. In this case the spider was expecting the rock to be attached to the ground, but since it wasn’t, the act of tensioning the line lifted it off the ground."

We might not be able to confidently explain it, but it’s awesome nonetheless.

Potato Johnson and Jay180 are just a couple guys on Reddit.

[–]Potato_Johnson
I've seen it before and the simple explanation is that the spider didn't do it on purpose. I've worked with spiders for years and every spider that makes these aerial webs does it the same way; they anchor some web to an object, produce an extra long stand trailing behind them as they climb up and around obstacles, and then put tension on the line once they're back up the top.
In this case the spider was expecting the rock to be attached to the ground, but since it wasn't, the act of tensioning the line lifted it off the ground.
Source: worked as a spider keeper in zoos for 6+ years.
[–]Jay180
Entomologist here. This is not as uncommon as you think. Basically, the spider is looking for good anchor points. It pulls on all the lines to check for stability as it's making the web. As far as it knows that line is attached to the ground. That rock is just heavy enough to keep the line taut but not so light the spider would pull it all the way up. Had one do this with a heavy leaf outside my window. That leaf danced just above the ground for like weeks and drove me crazy every time the wind blew.
Don't cha love the Net? ;)

They both simply brush it off, equating the rock anchor to any fixed ground anchor, suggesting the spider didn't know the difference between a surface anchor and the rock suggesting it was an accident. Here's another image of it and you can see just how far off the ground the rock is. And that link says:
"This clever spider grabbed a rock, dragged it up to the web, and suspended it from the bottom," Imgur user Reverseloop said, describing the series of pictures he took of the spider's construction.
That contradicts the claim it occurred accidentally.



We need more information about how it happened and if it was a one-off or not before we can say. I'll keep an open mind but recognize the data is too preliminary to draw a conclusion.
 
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