writing bad stories?

I think that's how I started out - comfort-writing, as a kid. I'd forgotten.

OP, would it work to have one 'safe' piece of comfort-writing that is just yours - and which you only come back to after you've done a certain amount of time on a separate idea?

Hmm... I'll take a stab at an answer, because I can sense (and relate to) the frustration, even if I'm not sure I'm getting the specific question right.

There's nothing wrong with writing whatever you want to write, or feel the need to write. Sometimes it just helps to pin things down in words. Whether or not those words are worth polishing for sale, or just for exercise, or just for your sanity... that is something you alone can determine. I will admit that many things I've written are largely for me; if I ever decide to share them, they'll need extensive work to make them appeal to people who aren't me, who don't have my hang-ups to work through or like the same shiny objects I do. That's not to say they were wastes of time; writing such things helped (and still helps) me learn to transfer images from brain to paper/computer screen, to find the words I'm looking for, to construct sentences, to visualize, to explore half-baked whims or entrenched emotions, etc. No writing is useless.

If you're concerned that your works are too repetitive, that you aren't creative enough, know that creativity is a skill like any other. It can be learned and exercised. One way to do this is increase your exposure to new ideas. Read a new book. Explore a new genre. Watch a new TV show. Research a new topic. Listen to new music. Go to a new place. Open up your senses and your mind. You never quite know what'll spark an idea, or which of your idea-sparks will catch. (Also know that some big-name authors have made a living off stories that seem fairly repetitive, though there are some things you can get away with when you're That Person that the rest of us just can't...)

For the issue of coming up with plots, things that happen between beginnings and endings and conversations, that comes down to learning the craft. The best way to do this is to pay attention to what you read (or what you watch, though TV and movies aren't quite the same medium.) How do the stories unfold? How are characters crafted to become individual beings acting in the story, rather than just voices talking? How do all the parts fit together by the end (or fail to fit together)? What works for you? What doesn't?

If you feel your issues are tied into bigger problems, mental knots you know are there but just can't seem to unravel, then maybe you should consider talking to someone - keeping in mind that strangers on a message board aren't particularly qualified to diagnose mental or physical issues. (This is more along the lines of "if you know or strongly suspect something's wrong, don't be ashamed to seek help" advice, nothing specific...)

Hope some of that helps...

By all available evidence, I'm really good at writing bad stories.

But without knowing what you're doing with your writing, it's pretty hard to make any recommendations. What do your characters have at stake? How do they go about pursuing those goals? What obstacles do they encounter?

caw

I have never finished anything in my life. I just like messing with ideas. But, if I may offer a suggestion: try working with your strengths, just to get a better grip on what you're doing, and what you actually want to do.
Keep that basic story idea that you keep going back to, grab whatever names and tiny details that appeal, and move further. If you waver, or think it's not 'perfect' enough, keep telling yourself: 'It's only an exercise, just for practice.'
And, as you seem to have a ton of information on their problems, insecurities, and relationships, start with that. Pick a character - what relationship do they want and with who, and what's holding them back? Grab the character the first character wants, and figure out what's holding them back. Now, try connecting the two problems, using problems and insecurities as obstacles and solutions.
If your characters and their relationship problems are interesting and well-written, you may not need much 'action'.

maereth said:

/.../
similar people in them, in similar situations, with the same, awkward or even toxic relationships, most differences being names and tiny details/.../

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That's what many would call "real literature". Raymond Carver, Tobias Wolff, Philip Roth, John Updike, John Cheever. Read their short fiction with "writer goggles", see how they make it work, start trying to make it work as well. The alpha and omega of figuring out what you're doing and why and how to do it better, is to find mentors who already did it.

Pretty much echoing what JCornelius said.

If you want to make these into actual novels and the like, it sounds to me like you have the characters all sorted, but just need to come up with a solid plot first, and only then drop those characters into it. For example, a basic journey, or 'on the run' style plot might work well. Say, your characters are in a toxic relationship and get involved with something they shouldn't, or are witness to a crime. Something to force them to stick together and work things out while also running through the story plot.

maereth said:

I don't come up with interesting problems to solve and adventures to take, I just constantly have these people talking in my head, about how they feel, their problems and insecurities, and there is always someone there to save the day of course, and make them all feel better, but there is nothing happening in between these conversations...

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This sounds to me like your characters aren't growing. Without some character growth or change, it's hard to make a story compelling.

I write character-driven fiction. Plot circumstances certainly drive character growth, but there is no growth where someone else swoops in to save the day and make the characters feel better. Think about what your character's problems are, how their inability to solve their problems stems from their own shortcomings, and how they have to stretch themselves (grow) to solve their problems. Characters complaining and sighing about their problems is not what makes a story interesting. It's when they do something about their problems (even, or especially, if it's the wrong thing at first) that the story takes off.

Good luck, and welcome to AW.

Echoing the above, and I would like to add a different idea that might help you if you're stuck. Try some writing prompts. Just throw your characters (or new ones) into weird situations and see how they behave. Prompts are excellent, because there is zero pressure or expectation. You're just playing. It's a warm-up exercise. But it's not wasted effort because you're honing your craft and sharpening your skill.

Try a prompt in a different genre. If you write westerns, throw your characters in the jungle with a shapeshifter. If you write historical romance, throw your characters on a spaceship in 2739.

It'll help take the pressure off to create "something" and let you get to know these people and what they're made of. Let them save themselves. (Or not.) Get them off their asses and give them something to do besides lament their problems.

Sometimes we're compelled to write a particular tale. It can be a type of therapy, writing away the pain of a past event or some trauma we experienced. Other times it's just a fictional story we've thought about for years and finally get around to writing down. In the later case a partially written tale can become a nightmare as characters tend to haunt me, demanding to know the rest of their story.

OP: To me it sounds like you're pants'ing. Writing by the seat of your pants, and I wonder if that may be the cause of your tales never really having an arc. Instead of just jotting your story down, try instead to develop an outline first. Where are you starting, and ending is the first question you ask yourself. Who is inhabiting your story, and where are they (emotionally, developmentally, physically) at the end. What is the purpose of your story? To teach? To say something about the human condition? Or just to have an adventure and have some fun? Try answering all these questions in a bulleted outline, and see where it takes you.

If people always made good decisions, most bad things wouldn't happen.

It's a pretty boring story where every character takes the time to consider all their options and always picks the right one.

One thing you can do to drive your plot is take away the thing that makes the character feel safe, or strong, or do the one thing that's guaranteed to make them react badly. You say the older brother is always there to make things better? What if he dies suddenly? Now what does she do? Or he decides to save her from something that she WANTS, like a job or a boy? What if the conflict builds from that protective relationship?

Just because you have a type, doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. Work with what you've got.

It's entirely possible that you keep writing the same story because you really need to finish. Maybe your brain just wants to know how it ends.

A First Draft is just that: a FIRST Draft. Organizing, crafting, and finalizing a Readable Story is a different process from banging out a First Draft, so keep going until you type The End. After that, a different kind of creative work begins.

maereth said:

there is always someone there to save the day of course

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Make that "someone" your MC, and you have yourself a story.

@indianroads, I did try outlines too, I was gonna put in in the question originally, I tried different methods for outlining the story, asking questions, analysing characters' goals, but I always get stuck, this is also why I asked this question.

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I consider an outline to be like a map. For example, later this summer I'll be riding my motorcycle (alone) from Colorado to Maine and back. Now I could just jump on the freeway to get there, BUT I want to visit my family's home in Tennessee, then ride the Tail of the Dragon, and then I've always wanted to ride the Blue Ridge parkway north through the Appalachians... there's also the American Stonehenge I want to see, and Salem MASS. In Maine I'd like to stay in Bar Harbor, but would also like to get up to Eastport ME. On the way back I'll ride through the Adirondacks and see the Native American Snake Mound. There are also friends I want to visit during the trip.

You see, I start out with a rough idea of where I want to go, then I start plotting how to get there and interesting places along the way. I like to construct stories the same way.
Initially I have a rough idea who the MC is, but haven't considered any secondary or tertiary+ characters.. those I'll either discover during outline or while writing my first draft.

Note though, that my stories tend to be linear and sequential rather than parallel and concurrent... so my style of things probably won't fit what you want to do. I provide this just as a POV you might consider and adapt to your needs.

Hello! If you did not publish it you would never know whether it is good or bad. Even on that occasion you will be bombarded with countless subjective assessments. This is art we are dealing with so the principle of "bad" is very questionable. Maybe you are underestimating (or over ) what you did? Give it a try. Maybe you are chased by this for a reason

indianroads said:

I consider an outline to be like a map. … I like to construct stories the same way. Initially I have a rough idea who the MC is, but haven't considered any secondary or tertiary+ characters.. those I'll either discover during outline or while writing my first draft.

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Good point. An outline is a tool to get started. It's a rare one that survives in the finished book.

Famous mystery writer John D. MacDonald said that he outlined the first third of his books in great detail, the middle third a lot less, and the last third very little. By the time he'd gotten about a third of the way through his characters came alive and took over and his outline disintegrated into vague intentions.

About "bad stories." Every one you write works as practice and likely helps you get better. Too, your mistakes and recognizing them may make your later stories better. Don't be afraid of writing bad stuff; that is an inevitable part of becoming a writer.

I listened to a podcast from grammar girl yesterday and one of their tips to writing your first novel is to finish your first bad novel. Many people don't finish one they just keep writing different ones or quit. I don't have any advice on plots to finish yours but it'd be a huge accomplishment. Good luck!

I just read the original post:
Artists study and do their work for years before they start doing work that is "salable." In many cases, they never do. When you are at the beginning of your writing career, no matter how old you start, you are trying to decipher a form of art/communication that has been around for 100s of years, and that very few people believe is "teachable." It is not "bad" because it does not have any action in it. It is just not of a genre that most people would buy because people want excitement in their writing. If you were to find some books, or lessons in writing character arcs, or planning novels, you would see that it is very unrealistic (compared to real life) because events are compressed. One thing I realized before I gave up writing is that you need 2 scenes (some wold say 3) in your head when you start. (You can even write these scenes separately, because you know writers have to re-write several times. You need the "climax" or top of the plot arc, and you need to have the ending. This doesn't make sense, of course, but unlike the sort of essay writing they teach in school, fiction writing is "plotted" or even "written" backwards.
Talking to yourself is good. You are testing dialogue. I think what I would suggest is to keep a scrap-book, or a file folder box, (or one note) and put anything that reminds you of the story in it. Then organize it on a plot. Really look at it. Brain-storm. When you have all of that together then write, either following closely or more seat-of-the-pants.

It doesn't sound like you're writing a bad story- it sounds like you have a story in mind but it's just evolving. And I have the same thing where characters and situations pop into your mind and you feel like you should write it down- there's nothing wrong with that.

Kalyke said:

[Writing] is very unrealistic (compared to real life) because events are compressed.

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True. More specifically, a story is a extract of part of life: striving for a goal. It might be positive like a treasure, or negative like escaping a threat. It might be very clear and specific, or the opposite. We leave out or summarize the parts of our lives which don't relate in some way to that story arc.

So in your case, maereth, you need to decide. Do you want to just have a therapeutic experience? Or do you want to produce a story? If so, you need to choose a few items.

• A main character or group of them.
• A goal they want to get.
• Their plan to get it, maybe something very vague.

Then you need to shepherd them along as they work and fumble to get it.

Don't worry about screwing up. It's inevitable. That's what rewrites are for, to uncrew your art. You have an enormous amount of knowledge of stories in your subconscious. Let your intuition guide you along the way.