Problem: Premise without Plot

Reservoir Angel · May 21, 2017

So I've noticed that this is a recurring issue for me in terms of writing basically anything, and with a new idea forming and me desperately trying to pin it down before it escapes it seems more present than ever. And I'm just wondering if anyone's dealth with this before, overcome the issue, or just has any general advice of how to solve it.

Basically, it's what it says on the tin. It seems like every idea I get exists as a premise, but has essentially no actual plot to it at all. The set-up to start the plot is there, but then my brain goes "cool, then what happens?" and I just have nothing to tell it because there's nothing there.

For brief example: This new idea is, in my head, a big science fiction space opera thing. It concerns the abduction by unknown elements of the son of the President of the Galactic Senate (because I haven't been creative enough to think up unique titles yet, I'm getting to it) on the anniversary of the signing of an armistice with a hostile alien race that had previous been at war with the Republic (again, no creative unique titles) for ages, said abduction setting off an inter-galactic political crisis as everyone blames everyone else. Meanwhile a hairbrained rescue mission is concocted by a slapdash crew of pilots and starship officials, lead by the joint effort of the President's son's fiancé and the hotshot pilot the son was basically having an affair with, in a ship stolen from said pilot's captain.

That may in some way sound like a plot, or at least the beginnings of one, but outside of that I've got nothing. Not a clue. Don't know what political crisis is going to involve, don't know who the abductors are, don't know who the main villain is, don't know what their plan is, don't know how any character drama will happen or be resolved.

Just... nothing. Like a blank canvas just taunting me that I want to paint on but just haven't got a pallet, or paint, or brushes.

Or creativity.

So is this an issue many other people have had severe, crippling issues with? How did you get past it? Can I even get past it or am I doomed to failure?

Dysnomia · May 21, 2017

It's something I'm struggling with now. I know the start and the end, but the in between, I've no clue. It seems to plague all my ideas too, so I sadly do not have a solution for you

Currently I'm just writing the novel anyway...scrap and redo thousands of words if things don't fit or I don't like them, and hope somewhere along the way I find the spark that everything clicks...

Shall wait for the wise people's input now.

Layla Nahar · May 21, 2017

A story is about a person. With a problem. And this problem creates (and comes from) conflict - the person (MC) and some opposing force, usually a person, but can be the weather, forex - have goals which are in conflict. Frex - the Alaskan cold and the guy who wants to survive the night, a prince who wants to revenge his father's murder, and a usurper who wants to keep the throne (that's Hamlet).

So, is there a Person? Does s/he have a problem? What is the 'backbone' external conflict that causes the events in your story to happen?

Dennis E. Taylor · May 21, 2017

Sorry, but that sounds like more than what I start with. I have a huge list of ideas for future books, but most of them are literally one-liners.

There may be people out there for whom a plot appears unbidden in the air before them, but I'm not one of those people, and I doubt they're common. You start with a one-liner, then you expand it to a paragraph, then if you're a plotter you start outlining. The outlining might stretch over weeks as you set it aside until an idea presents itself.

You don't give a sense of timeframe in your post, but I think you should expect it to be a drawn-out process, maybe with several different ideas being worked on. And like most things, it's probably a matter of practice as much as anything else.

2gregory · May 21, 2017

My favorite definition of plot: things get worse.

Then, to echo Layla, plot and character are inextricably interlinked. Plot's purpose is to reveal character. We learn about who people are by watching what they do. So one potential away out of your dilemma (I spend a lot of time in the same place!) is to get to know your characters ... and to ask, "What's the last thing this person wants to do? What kinds of choices would be hard for them to make?"

For me, thinking up these impossible choices is very much the way to go. Once you have a couple, you can think which is absolutely the worst, most wrenching of the lot ... that's a good candidate for the climax of the story. Then it's a case of thinking about all the things you need to have to build to that choice.

Good luck!

Jan74 · May 21, 2017

So you have your story line laid out which is a huge start. Do you keep a notepad(spiral) or document on your computer? Sit down and figure out names first. Get your MC name, who they are where they live etc, a mini bio of sorts. Get all your MC sorted, there are name generators online that can help or just googling names. Sometimes names change as your write though. Figure out the abductors, are they a group well organized like the mafia, or small scale like neighborhood thugs, are they comical in nature, serious. Sort out what they want, do they want war because they will make money off war, or do they want a ransom? I think your story sounds great!

cornflake · May 21, 2017

Reservoir Angel said:
So I've noticed that this is a recurring issue for me in terms of writing basically anything, and with a new idea forming and me desperately trying to pin it down before it escapes it seems more present than ever. And I'm just wondering if anyone's dealth with this before, overcome the issue, or just has any general advice of how to solve it.

Basically, it's what it says on the tin. It seems like every idea I get exists as a premise, but has essentially no actual plot to it at all. The set-up to start the plot is there, but then my brain goes "cool, then what happens?" and I just have nothing to tell it because there's nothing there.

For brief example: This new idea is, in my head, a big science fiction space opera thing. It concerns the abduction by unknown elements of the son of the President of the Galactic Senate (because I haven't been creative enough to think up unique titles yet, I'm getting to it) on the anniversary of the signing of an armistice with a hostile alien race that had previous been at war with the Republic (again, no creative unique titles) for ages, said abduction setting off an inter-galactic political crisis as everyone blames everyone else. Meanwhile a hairbrained rescue mission is concocted by a slapdash crew of pilots and starship officials, lead by the joint effort of the President's son's fiancé and the hotshot pilot the son was basically having an affair with, in a ship stolen from said pilot's captain.

That may in some way sound like a plot, or at least the beginnings of one, but outside of that I've got nothing. Not a clue. Don't know what political crisis is going to involve, don't know who the abductors are, don't know who the main villain is, don't know what their plan is, don't know how any character drama will happen or be resolved.

Just... nothing. Like a blank canvas just taunting me that I want to paint on but just haven't got a pallet, or paint, or brushes.

Or creativity.

So is this an issue many other people have had severe, crippling issues with? How did you get past it? Can I even get past it or am I doomed to failure?

That does seem like more than just premise, and there are several ways to get past it, sure.

It kind of depends on how you work, but I'd suggest maybe trying expansion.

Start with one sentence, which you've got in there somewhere -- like 'on the anniversary of the treaty signing, the president's son is kidnapped... yada.

Keep it to one sentence. Then look at it.

Then write the plot, such as it is, in one paragraph, like four or five sentences. It's FINE if you don't have the whole A to B thing filled in.

Then start, like an essay, but just leave holes where there are holes. Some will come to you as you type. Like so -- ok, intro, so there's a galactic whatever, and ... planets or whatever signed a treaty that ended the 1,000-year war with whatever...

Then you can either start writing something based off your intro paragraph, or you can just put it down and say you'll leave it for a day or three, and whenever something to fill in a gap comes to you, put it in.

You feel, I think, like you have to know the step-by-step before you start writing, but you don't, any more than you have to have all the stuff on the canvas before you start painting. You start a painting with sketch lines, then fill in as you go.

Roxxsmom · May 21, 2017

Layla Nahar said:
A story is about a person. With a problem. And this problem creates (and comes from) conflict - the person (MC) and some opposing force, usually a person, but can be the weather, forex - have goals which are in conflict. Frex - the Alaskan cold and the guy who wants to survive the night, a prince who wants to revenge his father's murder, and a usurper who wants to keep the throne (that's Hamlet).

So, is there a Person? Does s/he have a problem? What is the 'backbone' external conflict that causes the events in your story to happen?

This is very much what I was going to ask.

Who is your protagonist? The victim of the kidnapping? One of the Kidnappers? A loved one of the kidnapped person? A law enforcement agent or space cop tasked with solving the crime? A bounty hunter hired under the table to rescue the kidnapped person? Someone who just happens to be there when the kidnapping is underway and inadvertently gets involved?

Any or all of these or more could be an interesting protagonist with an interesting story, but each one would have a different potential arc, and drive a different sort of plot. A story about a mom trying to find her lost child will be different than one about a hard-bitten cop trying to hunt down an old nemesis, or one about the victim initially wanting to escape but coming to sympathize with their kidnappers and join their cause, or...

Once you have an idea about who the story will center on, you can start thinking about what kind of person the protagonist is inside? What baggage might they have? What personal goals do they have and how might they conflict with the goal related to the kidnapping? Who do they meet and connect with during the story? What sorts of things would make it hard for them to achieve their goals?

Maybe you're getting too focused on the premise or the plot itself and not thinking enough about the characters who actually drive it?

Cyia · May 21, 2017

This is literally how premise becomes plot.

You can try making yourself a beatsheet, which gets the basics down in a one - to - two page form. The basic form of Blake Snyder's is pretty good, and if you google "Blake Snyder Beatsheet" you can find it easily.

You can also pretend someone's read an article about your galactic scenario in the real news and told you about it. Start with the headline - this is your premise. Now "ask" who's involved, what they've done, etc, until you've got yourself a bullet list of major points for a scene or for the story as a whole. Go back through and add more details until that bullet list is an outline.

MAS · May 22, 2017

I have the same issue. I simply can't figure out my plot in advance.

I was lucky enough once to attend a seminar by Deb Dixon, who wrote the GMC book (Goal, Motivation and Conflict). She said that there were really three kinds of writers, not two. There were plotters, panthers, and what she called "beads in a box." I never heard of the "beads" before, but I think it's me. "Beadsers" write scenes. We don't know, when we write them, where they're going to fit into the overall story. But somehow, when we're done, we string some of the scenes (beads) together and end up with a book with a plot and characters.

Maybe you're a "beadser." You might try just writing some random scenes, with people in them, and see what happens. It could be that when you do that, you'll be able to construct a chain of events for the scenes, and that will turn into a plot.

Just a thought. Different approaches work for different people.

MythMonger · May 22, 2017

I tend to branch my ideas off of other ideas:

Reservoir Angel said:
It concerns the abduction by unknown elements of the son of the President of the Galactic Senate

What's the relationship like between the President and the son? How long has the President been president, since the son was a boy or is it a recent thing? Where's the mother in all this? What's her relationship like with the other members of the family? Are there siblings? Sibling rivalries? What's the motivation for the kidnapping?

on the anniversary of the signing of an armistice with a hostile alien race that had previous been at war with the Republic for ages,

Is the republic still rebuilding? Is the alien race still a threat? What's the connection between the peace and the abduction? Did the son fight for the republic, or did he get an exemption? Did others in the republic get exemptions and why?

said abduction setting off an inter-galactic political crisis as everyone blames everyone else.

How deep are the divisions among the respective planets? Is the republic on the verge of falling apart, or do they need to stay together so they won't be picked off by the aliens? What are some of the more interesting planetary rivalries within the republic? How about personal rivalries?

Meanwhile a hairbrained rescue mission is concocted by a slapdash crew of pilots and starship officials, lead by the joint effort of the President's son's fiancé and the hotshot pilot the son was basically having an affair with, in a ship stolen from said pilot's captain.

Why did the crew come together? Was it for love of the son, republic, other? How did the pilot and the son hide the affair from the fiance? Did the fiance ever suspect anything? What happens when the fiance finds out about the pilot, and at the worst possible time? What's the relationship between the pilot and the captain?

Answers lead to more questions, which leads to more answers and in turn more questions.

You might not be able to map out the entire manuscript this way, but it could be a good start just to get you past the premise. As others have said, find your main character. If you don't know that yet, find your POV characters. Your questions will then be focused on their part of the story.

Reservoir Angel · May 22, 2017

MAS said:
I have the same issue. I simply can't figure out my plot in advance.

I was lucky enough once to attend a seminar by Deb Dixon, who wrote the GMC book (Goal, Motivation and Conflict). She said that there were really three kinds of writers, not two. There were plotters, panthers, and what she called "beads in a box." I never heard of the "beads" before, but I think it's me. "Beadsers" write scenes. We don't know, when we write them, where they're going to fit into the overall story. But somehow, when we're done, we string some of the scenes (beads) together and end up with a book with a plot and characters.

Maybe you're a "beadser." You might try just writing some random scenes, with people in them, and see what happens. It could be that when you do that, you'll be able to construct a chain of events for the scenes, and that will turn into a plot.

Just a thought. Different approaches work for different people.

I've never heard of "beadsers" either. Sounds like with my lack of organisational skills it'd be absolute hell but trying to pants books and carefully plan them have both failed spectacularly as methods of getting things done so trying the 3rd option seems worth a look. Honestly never considered the approach before.

MythMonger said:
I tend to branch my ideas off of other ideas:

[snip]

Answers lead to more questions, which leads to more answers and in turn more questions.

You might not be able to map out the entire manuscript this way, but it could be a good start just to get you past the premise. As others have said, find your main character. If you don't know that yet, find your POV characters. Your questions will then be focused on their part of the story.

I kind of love you for this. It's hard kicking my own brain into gear to answer questions like this (about half of any ideas I start working on exist in a state of 'hell if I know' that never gets resolved because I never know what parts of it need filling in) so having questions like that laid out for me by someone else? That's amazingly helpful. Some of this stuff I'd have never even thought of delving into.

I can foresee in my future a word document with all these questions written in it, to be answered as I go through things.

Laer Carroll · May 22, 2017

You need to know the following before your question can be answered. You probably do, subconsciously, from all the stories you've been exposed to from birth. Knowing them consciously can help you pinpoint problems. Like the one the OP mentions.

Every story has this pattern: Somewhere somewhen someone seeks something. Fill in the five blanks.

The first two are the stage settings.

The heart of the story is the "Someone wants something." Could be a positive like a treasure or a prom date with a hottie or a famous lost manuscript - or a kidnap victim. Could be a negative like escape from barbarian marauders or avoiding the attention of the mean girls at a school or staying out of jail.

The seeking is the plot, the spine of the story. Obstacles show up as the MC(s) go along. Could be physical, emotional, mental, social. The MC(s) struggle to overcome or go around them - which will lead them to more obstacles, maybe worse than the ones they'd have faced otherwise. They succeed or fail at the last obstacle.

_____________________________________________

Roxxs pinpointed a basic problem: the OP has not decided who the MC is. They are basically a detective, maybe official, maybe a PI. Maybe a family friend. Decide. You can change your mind if needed.

The OP says " don't know what political crisis is going to involve, don't know who the abductors are, don't know who the main villain is, don't know what their plan is..."

Neither does your MC. Have hi/r start finding out. Go to the kidnap site. Look for clues. Talk to family and friends, ask who might be the parent(s) enemies. Follow those clues. So you and your MC(s) will discover your story and their quarry at the same time.

blacbird · May 22, 2017

Echo what Layla Nahar said. Your problem isn't as much premise without plot as it is premise without real characters. Not just role-players, but real characters a reader can latch on to and follow with interest.

caw

chompers · May 22, 2017

Ask what is the end goal? (What is your character trying to accomplish?) And then work from there.

Testome · May 22, 2017

Something suggested to my that I've found helpful. Have you fleshed out your world? History, culture, factions, technology, etc. RP forum style character sheets fo all your major characters. I would also try writing a query for your premise and see if it holds water. I dont outline or anything as that doesn't help me, but this helped me tremendously. I also wrote the history of my world from my antagonists perspective. It seemed to help me. I haven't really done it this next part yet, but writing several short stories to get a really good feel of the character was also suggested to me. I already got a handle on that after several chapters I think.

BethS · May 22, 2017

Reservoir Angel said:
For brief example: This new idea is, in my head, a big science fiction space opera thing. It concerns the abduction by unknown elements of the son of the President of the Galactic Senate (because I haven't been creative enough to think up unique titles yet, I'm getting to it) on the anniversary of the signing of an armistice with a hostile alien race that had previous been at war with the Republic (again, no creative unique titles) for ages, said abduction setting off an inter-galactic political crisis as everyone blames everyone else. Meanwhile a hairbrained rescue mission is concocted by a slapdash crew of pilots and starship officials, lead by the joint effort of the President's son's fiancé and the hotshot pilot the son was basically having an affair with, in a ship stolen from said pilot's captain.

It's a starting point, but what you need to do now (or so it seems to me) is start writing the story. Get in there with your characters. Get into the viewpoint of the one who carries the story (could be more than one character who does this) and let the story unfold out of his/her desires, needs, goals, and/or fears. What you've described above is a framework, but it's the characters who will determine what happenes within that framework. They will generate the plot out of the actions they take in response to story conflict (obstacles), and those actions are in turn generated by the characters' own motivations and internal struggles. <-- That is really your plot generator.

cbenoi1 · May 23, 2017

MAS said:
"Beadsers" write scenes. We don't know, when we write them, where they're going to fit into the overall story. But somehow, when we're done, we string some of the scenes (beads) together and end up with a book with a plot and characters.

I do this from time to time, when a scene lingers in my head and I can't get past it. I just write it down, file it under the "Whine Cellar" tab where I store other unused / retired pieces. This trick allows me to move on.

-cb

Bufty · May 24, 2017

Five years ago you realised your main problem was you didn't have any characters. That's still the issue.

Start writing with one character whom you think may be a leading character. Put him in his office on board whatever or wherever, mulling over an issue, and have something happen to interrupt him. Another character with an unexpected message or piece of information. Just start writing it, making sure that what happens on page one triggers what happens on page two and that page three follows logically on to that - and see what happens.

It may not end up being the actual starting point for the story but you are looking for a starting point to writing and discovering the story and its characters.

You've nothing to lose because at present the ideas are big and ambitious but totally devoid of the one thing that makes our stories live - characters with issues and daily life to deal with..

Until you put a splodge of paint on the canvass it will remain blank.

Reservoir Angel said:
So I've noticed that this is a recurring issue for me in terms of writing basically anything, and with a new idea forming and me desperately trying to pin it down before it escapes it seems more present than ever. And I'm just wondering if anyone's dealth with this before, overcome the issue, or just has any general advice of how to solve it.

Basically, it's what it says on the tin. It seems like every idea I get exists as a premise, but has essentially no actual plot to it at all. The set-up to start the plot is there, but then my brain goes "cool, then what happens?" and I just have nothing to tell it because there's nothing there.

For brief example: This new idea is, in my head, a big science fiction space opera thing. It concerns the abduction by unknown elements of the son of the President of the Galactic Senate (because I haven't been creative enough to think up unique titles yet, I'm getting to it) on the anniversary of the signing of an armistice with a hostile alien race that had previous been at war with the Republic (again, no creative unique titles) for ages, said abduction setting off an inter-galactic political crisis as everyone blames everyone else. Meanwhile a hairbrained rescue mission is concocted by a slapdash crew of pilots and starship officials, lead by the joint effort of the President's son's fiancé and the hotshot pilot the son was basically having an affair with, in a ship stolen from said pilot's captain.

That may in some way sound like a plot, or at least the beginnings of one, but outside of that I've got nothing. Not a clue. Don't know what political crisis is going to involve, don't know who the abductors are, don't know who the main villain is, don't know what their plan is, don't know how any character drama will happen or be resolved.

Just... nothing. Like a blank canvas just taunting me that I want to paint on but just haven't got a pallet, or paint, or brushes.

Or creativity.

So is this an issue many other people have had severe, crippling issues with? How did you get past it? Can I even get past it or am I doomed to failure?

Reservoir Angel · May 24, 2017

Bufty said:
Five years ago you realised your main problem was you didn't have any characters. That's still the issue.

Yeah creating characters has been the bane of my existence for ages. Realising it's been 5 years of that's certainly made me re-evaluate why I even bother, mind.

Mary Mitchell · May 24, 2017

MAS said:
I have the same issue. I simply can't figure out my plot in advance...

"Beadsers" write scenes. We don't know, when we write them, where they're going to fit into the overall story. But somehow, when we're done, we string some of the scenes (beads) together and end up with a book with a plot and characters...

OMG. Now I understand--I'm a beadser. Literally. I have notebooks and files full of scenes. And not always the three-act-play kind of scene even, with characters and action and all. Sometimes just a description of a visual scene that sets a mood or tone.

Someone--may have been Nora Roberts, but I'm not sure--said that when they plan a book they tell themselves they want a scene in a marsh, and one in a dilapated log cabin, and one in this cool Chicago restaurant they were at last month, and they want a battle, and a homecoming and a love scene... And then they try to figure out how to get the characters to progress logically from one scene to another. I do something similar by browsing my notebooks/files and saying, "Ooh, I haven't used that one before. How can I get my character to find himself in that scene/setting?"

So far as characters go, isn't there an actor or actress whom you adored in a particular role? You can picture them. You can hear them speak and see their gestures and ticks and the way they move, their facial expressions... Picture that character in the situation you've set up, and you'll know what their reactions to various twists and turns and other characters' actions would be.

AnnieColleen · May 24, 2017

What I do: pick a point and start asking questions. "Why" and "what if" work well for this. Important: the objective at this point is not to come up with the One Right Answer, it's to generate possibilities. Once I have a range of options I can trace out different possibilities and see what feels like the story I want to write.

So, for example: someone kidnaps a VIP politician's son; why might someone do that?
- for money
- for political leverage
- for revenge
- for information or access -- biometrics, etc.
- for recruitment, trying to get the son on their side
- for a feint or distraction
- to frame an enemy
- to cover up something (the son saw something he shouldn't have)
- etc.
Make your own list; see what jumps out at you. Pick a few options and follow the logic backward or forward. To cover up what? Revenge for what? Then see where those possibilities go, and what they might suggest for characters/themes/plot arcs.

frimble3 · May 25, 2017

You said "Like a blank canvas just taunting me that I want to paint on but just haven't got a pallet, or paint, or brushes."
Keep in mind that great works of historic importance were made by people working in the torch-lit darkness of caves, using charcoal and dirt, spitting the colouring on the stone or spreading it with their fingers.
These days we have fancy tools, but you still have to get your hands dirty.
Rough out an outline and dig in. Even if you go 'scene at a time', start with something interesting: don't start with making up lists of titles, and planets and ship's names.
If you don't want to start with the story, 'cause you don't know enough, start with the fiancée and the hotshot pilot (I note that you haven't even decided if it's a male or a female. Or, the species.) Did they know about each other beforehand, how did they get in touch, who took the lead in the rescue plan? What are their relative social positions? Why are they pushing this plan instead of sitting back, wringing their hands and letting the authorities handle it?

Underdawg47 · May 25, 2017

I personally don't start with a plot. I start with a character and a situation. Usually my characters start out with simple goals and just let random events happen that my MC reacts to. The bigger the events and the more characters involved, determines how epic the story becomes. The fun in writing is that I never know how the story will end.

Venavis · May 25, 2017

I have a white board in my writing room that I use when I have this problem. I write the idea on it, then now and then I get another notion and add that. I don't force it like an actual brainstorming session because that never seems to work for me, I just add tidbits as they come up. Like 'oh, maybe the pilot has a family member on the other side' and 'the fiance is actually a traitor' and at some point, it starts to actually look enough like a plot that I can start working up an outline. Sometimes, though, it takes a while and there have been a few times where I've just erased it all because it wasn't going anywhere good.

Now that I have a blog I might start using that a little instead of the white board and get other people's feedback. Not sure how well that will work though.

Problem: Premise without Plot

Angelic by name, fiendish by nature

Drowning in the depthless sea

Seashell Seller

Get it off! It burns!

Golden boy with feet of clay

practical experience, FTW

Beastly Fido

Rewriting My Destiny

Willing to Learn

Angelic by name, fiendish by nature

Aerospace engineer turned writer

Where have the last ten years gone?

Angelic by name, fiendish by nature

Go down road, go pub.

Invisible Writer

Heckuva good sport

Semi-benevolent overlord