Cultural Appropriation and Celebration of Failure to Read the Screen

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Snitchcat

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I saw this review today, and I thought I would post it as an example of how badly authors write PoC characters sometimes. This book is an example of harmful representation...and it's a finalist for a top romance award.

I read the summary and stopped. "Exotic"?! WTF?

Perhaps the cultural appropriation issue should be renamed to "abuse & theft of culture".
 

Marian Perera

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For some readers, it just won't make any difference - or might even be a plus point. I recently reviewed a historical romance which was ruined for me when a woman kept insulting a man's Native American background (calling him Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, Chief Buffalo Brain, etc). He eventually fell in love with her.

A reader replied to the review, saying she enjoyed the book because it depicted historical attitudes well.
 

Helix

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I read the excerpt. To the hero, all "Chinamen" look alike and seem "inscrutable". Though the women are described in flowery terms, down to their almond-shaped eyes.

You did better than me. I couldn't get past the combination of mornay and cream puffs in the first few lines.
 

Roxxsmom

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I saw this review today, and I thought I would post it as an example of how badly authors write PoC characters sometimes. This book is an example of harmful representation...and it's a finalist for a top romance award.

How far have we not come :(

But to address the concerns of various writers who are terrified of not getting published, or being blacklisted by the publishing industry if they make one "teeny little mistake" in portraying someone of a different race or culture than their own: this obviously isn't a realistic fear.

Concerns over hurting others are still valid, but fears over not being published for these reasons clearly are not.
 
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Marian Perera

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This reminded me of when I first read The Thorn Birds. I was an extremely sheltered 15-year-old and we only learned British history in school, so everything I knew about Australia at the time was from that book and the miniseries.

It came as a surprise when I went off to college, took an anthropology course and learned about indigenous Australians. But ...everyone in the story was white! I remember being genuinely confused at the time.
 

mccardey

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This reminded me of when I first read The Thorn Birds. I was an extremely sheltered 15-year-old and we only learned British history in school, so everything I knew about Australia at the time was from that book and the miniseries.

It came as a surprise when I went off to college, took an anthropology course and learned about indigenous Australians. But ...everyone in the story was white! I remember being genuinely confused at the time.
My (Aussie) kids went to a lovely British International School when we were living in SEA, and they had Cultural Day where they had to dress up as their National Culture. One of them was like wtf? and asked his teacher and she said a hat with corks and he said I don't think we wear those and she said a kangaroo skin and a spear and a boomerang would also be fine.

I gave them the day off school that day, because I figured whatever they were learning would just have to be unlearned.
 

Putputt

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This reminded me of when I first read The Thorn Birds. I was an extremely sheltered 15-year-old and we only learned British history in school, so everything I knew about Australia at the time was from that book and the miniseries.

It came as a surprise when I went off to college, took an anthropology course and learned about indigenous Australians. But ...everyone in the story was white! I remember being genuinely confused at the time.

Heh, this was me as a kid, reading Enid Blyton's books and The Baby-Sitters Club, Sweet Valley, Goosebumps etc. "Wait, there are Chinese people living in the US too? But...I don't get it." I really didn't get it until I visited my cousins in California when I was about 7.

Me: "But...we're in America, yes?"
Cousin: "Yes...?"
Me: "But...you live here. Are we really in America?"
Cousin: "Mooom."

My (Aussie) kids went to a lovely British International School when we were living in SEA, and they had Cultural Day where they had to dress up as their National Culture. One of them was like wtf? and asked his teacher and she said a hat with corks and he said I don't think we wear those and she said a kangaroo skin and a spear and a boomerang would also be fine.

I gave them the day off school that day, because I figured whatever they were learning would just have to be unlearned.

I am taking notes on parenting from you, mccardey. :D
 

Snitchcat

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One of the most brazen examples of this sort of bollocks is Marlo Morgan's Mutant Message Down Under. It still makes me angry.

OMG. WTH? That is a perfect example of how to abuse and steal a culture. Just wow... GRRR!
 

Helix

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OMG. WTH? That is a perfect example of how to abuse and steal a culture. Just wow... GRRR!

What made it even worse is that she just picked elements of Native American cultures (filtered through half a dozen western lenses) and pasted them into an Indigenous Australian setting. I heard of this book first through an enthusiastic American who was sitting next to me on a flight from Sydney to Los Angeles. The Morgan fan kept reading bits out to me and insisting it was all true. It was a very long flight.
 

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For some readers, it just won't make any difference - or might even be a plus point. I recently reviewed a historical romance which was ruined for me when a woman kept insulting a man's Native American background (calling him Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, Chief Buffalo Brain, etc). He eventually fell in love with her.

A reader replied to the review, saying she enjoyed the book because it depicted historical attitudes well.

And yet those readers probably have no problem with all the hot young dukes, who are six feet tall and have six packs, running around in Romancelandia. Because that's sure realistic...
 

LJD

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How far have we not come :(

But to address the concerns of various writers who are terrified of not getting published, or being blacklisted by the publishing industry if they make one "teeny little mistake" in portraying someone of a different race or culture than their own: this obviously isn't a realistic fear.

Concerns over hurting others are still valid, but fears over not being published for these reasons clearly are not.

Yeah, seriously.

Another example: The Continent. Check out the negative Goodreads reviews. After all the fuss, the publisher, Harlequin Teen, pushed back the release date to 2018 so they could deal with some of the issues in the book...not sure how much will be changed.
 

Ari Meermans

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How far have we not come :(

But to address the concerns of various writers who are terrified of not getting published, or being blacklisted by the publishing industry if they make one "teeny little mistake" in portraying someone of a different race or culture than their own: this obviously isn't a realistic fear.

Concerns over hurting others are still valid, but fears over not being published for these reasons clearly are not.

Why is that, I wonder, and how did it come about? Does or should the desire to be published supersede all other considerations, including the responsibility to get it right?

What do you all think?
 

Albedo

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What made it even worse is that she just picked elements of Native American cultures (filtered through half a dozen western lenses) and pasted them into an Indigenous Australian setting. I heard of this book first through an enthusiastic American who was sitting next to me on a flight from Sydney to Los Angeles. The Morgan fan kept reading bits out to me and insisting it was all true. It was a very long flight.
She was heading home? Here's frightening: that book was possibly the extent of 'exposure' she'd had to Aboriginal culture on her visit. They're probably selling it in a gift shop somewhere.
 

Albedo

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Yeah, seriously.

Another example: The Continent. Check out the negative Goodreads reviews. After all the fuss, the publisher, Harlequin Teen, pushed back the release date to 2018 so they could deal with some of the issues in the book...not sure how much will be changed.
Yikes. I fear my optimism about the inclusiveness of YA/romance as a genre in the other thread may have been a bit naive.
 

Helix

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She was heading home? Here's frightening: that book was possibly the extent of 'exposure' she'd had to Aboriginal culture on her visit. They're probably selling it in a gift shop somewhere.

I think she might have brought it with her, because I don't think it was ever a big seller here. If you check out the reviews on Amazon for that book and the sequel, there are a lot of people who think this it is an accurate depiction of Indigenous Australians. (Mind you, there are also quite a few Aussies calling bullshit on it.)
 

Xelebes

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Why is that, I wonder, and how did it come about? Does or should the desire to be published supersede all other considerations, including the responsibility to get it right?

What do you all think?

I do think the desire for an income is important because the complaints can sometimes come across as cornering others from the market, as if the plaintiff is trying to assert intellectual property instead of asserting view point.
 

Albedo

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I think she might have brought it with her, because I don't think it was ever a big seller here. If you check out the reviews on Amazon for that book and the sequel, there are a lot of people who think this it is an accurate depiction of Indigenous Australians. (Mind you, there are also quite a few Aussies calling bullshit on it.)
If she brought it with her, and yet left not realising it was junk, I think we all failed. A denouncement of that book needs to go into the welcome-to-Australia-surrender-all-fruit-ye-who-enter video they show on the plane.
 
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Ari Meermans

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I do think the desire for an income is important because the complaints can sometimes come across as cornering others from the market, as if the plaintiff is trying to assert intellectual property instead of asserting view point.

I understand the desire for an income. Yeah, boy, I do. But why the rush to publish? What about the writer's responsibility to their readers and the implied contract of trust? And doesn't the story itself deserve a faithful telling?
 

Xelebes

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I understand the desire for an income. Yeah, boy, I do. But why the rush to publish? What about the writer's responsibility to their readers and the implied contract of trust? And doesn't the story itself deserve a faithful telling?

If we are talking about the desire for income, time is money.
 

Ari Meermans

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If we are talking about the desire for income, time is money.

That's just an exhibition of entitlement. Are we to say, then, that personal wants, needs, and desires should outweigh all other considerations? (Yes, I'm returning to that question.)
 

LJD

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Why is that, I wonder, and how did it come about? Does or should the desire to be published supersede all other considerations, including the responsibility to get it right?

What do you all think?

Well, there seems to be a not-insignificant group of (white) people who appear to pride themselves on not giving a shit about these issues.

Also publishing seems to be fairly white, and perhaps having more PoC in publishing would help flag these things earlier. I can't help but wonder how The Continent got through Harlequin Teen...

No, I don't think the desire to be published should supersede everything else.
 
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