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Thread: Between the Lines Publishing

  1. #51
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    Just to clear things up - I'm your age. Thanks for thinking so - the pic is a few years old.

    I live in the US now, but did live in the UK for many years (the pic was taken at our house in Sheffield).
    You wear your age much better than I do. Where did you live in Sheffield? I live there. It's a gorgeous day here today.

    ETA: Sorry, posted too soon. It's a lovely place to live. But it's quite a way away from London, where Bloomsbury is, and from Oxford. You must have lived all over the UK, or had a rather long commute.
    Last edited by Old Hack; 06-15-2017 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #52
    Writer Beware's Faithful Igor Richard White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chompers View Post
    I understand the need to be cautious and pragmatic with new companies, but at the same time I've always felt it was a bit of a Catch-22. A person should wait for a few years to see how the company is doing before submitting. Let others test the waters? But the advice is telling everyone to not be the ones to try, but to wait it out. And yet if everybody is doing that, how is the company going to be able to prove themself? All companies need to start off somewhere, oui?
    Chompers,

    I don't presume to speak for everyone, but here's how I see it after all these years working with Writer Beware:

    A new publisher should have experience in the publishing business. They should have worked with a company, even if it's a small one, and learned things like how to project sales, project costs (hiring editors, hiring cover artists, hiring marketing personnel), and seen how the business rises and falls.

    A new publisher should be able to show their experience as well as the experience of those working beneath them. No, the publisher doesn't have to hire an all-star crew right off the bat, but they should have enough experienced people working for them to train up their less-experienced staff. Why would you let a new publisher LEARN the business with your book? If you spent years getting your book ready to go to press, shouldn't the press have years of experience to get your book out to the public? After all, who does the public remember if the book is not up to snuff - the publisher or the author?

    A new publisher should have enough experience that they've developed a business plan and adhere to it when they get started.

    A new publisher should be more than sufficiently capitalized before they ever let anyone know they're even thinking about opening their doors.

    A new publisher (with sufficient experience) should have authors they've already worked with and know lined up and their books ready to go BEFORE they ever open their doors.

    For example, a new publisher opened a couple of years ago - they'd been an editor at a big-5 publisher, so people already knew who they were - and they approached a specific writer's group for a very limited number of books. These writers knew, or knew people who knew, this new publisher. The books were written, edited, and prepped well before the publisher ever let the general public know they were going to be open for business, and when the first set of books came out, they'd been well-marketed, had great reviews weeks/months ahead of time, and the authors were ready to talk about them during the summer convention circuits. AND, they still only do a few books a year so they can ensure each gets the attention they need versus some publishers who dump 50-100 books out in a year and hope something sticks.

    And even with all this, even well prepared publishers still go out of business within 2-5 years of opening their doors, just like every other small business. Markets change, unexpected expenses drain reserves, a frivolous lawsuit, illness/injury to key personnel within the small company, etc., none of these things are necessarily the fault of the publisher, but they can happen. The difference is, if the publisher is professional, if they have a contingency plan for if it doesn't work, then books get reverted their authors, monies owed get paid to the authors, and everyone moves on older but wiser. If the company is not well-organized and well-prepared BEFORE they open their door the first time, well, we have example after example in the grayed-out links in the index of publishers who started, flamed out, and disappeared taking hopes, dreams, and money with them in about two years time.

    So, while you don't necessarily have to wait two years to see if a publisher is going to make it, you should be able to see specific signs right off the bat whether they have a chance of making it or not.

  3. #53
    Grr. Argh. Thedrellum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    Just to clear things up - I'm your age. Thanks for thinking so - the pic is a few years old.

    I live in the US now, but did live in the UK for many years (the pic was taken at our house in Sheffield).

    Thank you for you input. I wasn't suggesting they ask if I or anyone who works at BLP is competent. That would be ridiculous. There are questions such as how many books have you sold? What is your marketing strategy? Who do you sell through? Basic questions that any author should ask any potential publisher - no matter what is on their website.

    Have a good night.
    So, questions:

    1. How many books have you sold?

    2. What is your marketing strategy?

    3. Who do you sell through?

    4. If you have two years' worth of capital, have you factored in hiring professional editors? Or someone to redesign your website?

  4. #54
    figuring it all out C Alberts's Avatar
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    Some specific questions -

    1 - Can the publisher address the glaring typos in the opening pages of their most recent book?

    2 - Does the publisher have plans for bookstore distribution? As far as I can see, there is currently nothing in place. There is an email address on the website for bookstores and libraries to contact if they want info for 'special discounts'. Are these discounts industry standard (40%+ off list price, reasonable minimums, free shipping, returnable)?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    You wear your age much better than I do. Where did you live in Sheffield? I live there. It's a gorgeous day here today.

    ETA: Sorry, posted too soon. It's a lovely place to live. But it's quite a way away from London, where Bloomsbury is, and from Oxford. You must have lived all over the UK, or had a rather long commute.
    We lived in Manor Top (Waltheof Road) - they were revitalizing the area and building some lovely two story flats. Though we were close to the tram lines to get into the city.

    We have lived in London, Manchester, Sheffield, and Leicester. Bloomsbury was only for a little over a year while in London. Oxford was remote work - have to love the internet. Have been considering returning - depending on how things go immigration wise. :-)
    Last edited by WrdWvr; 06-16-2017 at 04:21 AM.
    Specializing in creative fiction and poetry that delves into the world between. Do you have a character in transition? Urban fantasy or time travel? Paranormal? If you have a story with a liminal theme, we want to hear from you. Between the Lines Publishing

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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Alberts View Post
    Some specific questions -

    1 - Can the publisher address the glaring typos in the opening pages of their most recent book?

    2 - Does the publisher have plans for bookstore distribution? As far as I can see, there is currently nothing in place. There is an email address on the website for bookstores and libraries to contact if they want info for 'special discounts'. Are these discounts industry standard (40%+ off list price, reasonable minimums, free shipping, returnable)?
    Yes, we do offer the industry standard to bookstores. We have multiple local shops (Twin Cities) that carry our books - based on the genre.

    Authors are paid royalties based off list price and not selling price. Royalty percentage increases as sales do.

    Authors receive a print run at time of release that does not impact their royalties (we cover this cost).

    There are provisions within the publishing agreement allowing for the author to end the contract and covers any outstanding royalties if something were to happen. Having been screwed over as a young writer - I wanted to ensure any author we published would be protected.

    Author's included in our anthologies retain their rights. The rights of authors who publish through us revert back to the author a year a day from publication.

    This was started with a strong business model, 5+ years of capital, as well as additional capital to open a shop during the next 9-12 months.

    Marketing: we utilize social media with a promotions company that includes a release blitz/blog tour. Books are listed with the IBPA catalogue, as well as included with various book fairs. The book fairs/expos are genre specific. Where possible, book signings are arranged local to the author.

    Sales: The first book we published sold 200 copies - the author refused to do any marketing or engage with their readers beyond our own marketing. While we will work for our authors, their lack of engagement will impact sales. The anthology sold over 5000 copies. It performed better as a paperback sold through various expos and literary venues than it did digitally.

    We added an editor and graphic designer to the team at the end of May.

    I do know how easy it is for a business to go under - a single negative event can crumble everything. This business venture was not entered into on a whim. I do not take the future of the business nor the authors who do approach us lightly. The contract was tailored to ensure they are compensated no matter what happens. We have several markers to consider this a success - one is the ability to offer substantial advances to our authors.

    I am sure, based on how things have gone, that what I've said above won't matter, but I've attempted to answer questions. Despite what any of you may think, I do appreciate feedback and have not closed my eyes to it.
    Last edited by WrdWvr; 06-16-2017 at 04:16 AM.

  7. #57
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    We lived in Manor Top (Waltheof Road) - they were revitalizing the area and building some lovely two story flats. Though we were close to the tram lines to get into the city.
    You lived at Manor Top? Blimey. You must be hard. That area is notorious for its crime and anti-social behaviour. Until relatively recently you could buy houses there for under 2,000. Houses.

    We have lived in London, Manchester, Sheffield, and Leicester. Bloomsbury was only for a little over a year while in London. Oxford was remote work - have to love the internet. Have been considering returning - depending on how things go immigration wise. :-)
    I didn't realise the OUP used remote interns: I thought they only had their Summer Programme. I'll speak to a friend about that.

    Moving on, you're making sense with many of the things you're telling us about how your publishing business works. But that's not balanced out by what we can see for ourselves: your unattractive website, the poor design, the dreadful covers and editing, and so on. I wish it weren't so, but there you go.

  8. #58
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chompers View Post
    I understand the need to be cautious and pragmatic with new companies, but at the same time I've always felt it was a bit of a Catch-22. A person should wait for a few years to see how the company is doing before submitting. Let others test the waters? But the advice is telling everyone to not be the ones to try, but to wait it out. And yet if everybody is doing that, how is the company going to be able to prove themself? All companies need to start off somewhere, oui?
    Try that with a doctor. Or a car mechanic. Shoot - try that in advertising, see how it works.

    Professional, dude. It's a thing.

  9. #59
    starting over Marian Perera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccardey View Post
    Try that with a doctor.
    Heh. I always wonder if the "give publishers a chance" reasoning works when it comes to, say, surgery. Would people entrust their lives to a just-graduated medical student because all surgeons have to start off somewhere, and students need to prove themselves?
    Sleeping Beauty-inspired m/m romance : Editing.

  10. #60
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    Some of the area was bad. The area we were in had new townhomes. We had things stolen from our garden she'd. Even took a fence panel off to steal the bile chained to it. Sadly, happened whole we were at Alderhey childrens in Liverpool with our son. Loved having a view of the ruins, though.

    Still crazy through Oct with fireworks? Seemed they wanted to celebrate Guy with cannons.

    I didn't intern with OUP, just Bloomsbury. I helped out with OUP while living in Leicester and only for a few months. The majority of my time was with small presses.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marian Perera View Post
    Heh. I always wonder if the "give publishers a chance" reasoning works when it comes to, say, surgery. Would people entrust their lives to a just-graduated medical student because all surgeons have to start off somewhere, and students need to prove themselves?
    You do realize that once your under, you can have a first year surgical resident operating on you? An instructor is next to them, but it's how they learn. 😉

  12. #62
    figuring it all out C Alberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    Yes, we do offer the industry standard to bookstores. We have multiple local shops (Twin Cities) that carry our books - based on the genre...
    I appreciate the reply, but you didn't quite answer any of my questions (perhaps you meant to quote a different post, as there was a lot of information in your reply that didn't pertain to what I asked which is why I only quoted your first sentence).

    Again, do you have plans for bookstore distribution? Having some local shops carrying the books is not what is meant by distribution. Do those shops order the books from you? Or does the author have to buy and provide copies for those shops to carry them on consignment?

    What are your discount terms directly to bookstores? Are they returnable for full credit? What is your minimum quantity/cost for free shipping to a store?

    Your terms through Ingram are prohibitive. Given your small catalog, I'm sure you realize that most bookstores will not want to work directly with you. Even a small bookstore can have ten thousand different titles, and most shops prefer not to have another vendor for just a few books. If you want your books on shelves in stores, I would imagine you have a game plan for this.

    Not every publisher wants or needs extensive bookstore distribution depending on their goals, genre, etc, so it is okay if you don't have such intentions, but a clear answer would be much appreciated.

    Are you willing to address the major typos in the recent book you published? You've mentioned that you've hired an editor, but that isn't really an answer, and it isn't clear that you even recognize the problem (unless I missed something in an earlier post in which case I apologize - I know you addressed issues with the books you put out last year, but there is one that just released a couple of weeks ago with major issues just in the first few pages and I don't see a straight answer about that).

  13. #63
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    Some of the area was bad. The area we were in had new townhomes. We had things stolen from our garden she'd. Even took a fence panel off to steal the bile chained to it. Sadly, happened whole we were at Alderhey childrens in Liverpool with our son. Loved having a view of the ruins, though.
    There isn't a single corner of Manor Top that I'd consider living in, and I've almost lived in Tottenham. As I said, you must be very hard to have lived there. Really. A few years ago it was decided that fire engines could only go to Manor Top with a police escort, because of the violence the fire fighters encountered when they went to help there. It's one of the UK's gun-crime hotspots, the police station closed because of the threats and violence, and crime levels there are through the roof.

    I'm so sorry your son was ill. That must have been a very difficult time for you, especially with all the travelling you must have had to do. It's odd that you went to Alder Hey when Sheffield has its own children's hospital, which is counted as one of the best in the country. I know some specialists are better than others, so understand you might have decided to be referred there but still. It's such a long way away, especially when Sheffield Children's Hospital is so great. My children were both born with disabilities and they have had excellent, world-leading treatment at SCH. I will always be grateful for it.

    Still crazy through Oct with fireworks? Seemed they wanted to celebrate Guy with cannons.
    I think those fireworks were vehicles. Just saying.

    I didn't intern with OUP, just Bloomsbury. I helped out with OUP while living in Leicester and only for a few months. The majority of my time was with small presses.
    But in an earlier post you wrote this:

    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    I started out as an intern for Bloomsbury, with several indie presses, and Oxford University Press. I have edited both fiction and academic non-fiction.
    You said you started out as an intern at Bloomsbury, several indie presses, and the OUP. But now you're saying you didn't. I don't understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by C Alberts View Post
    I appreciate the reply, but you didn't quite answer any of my questions (perhaps you meant to quote a different post, as there was a lot of information in your reply that didn't pertain to what I asked which is why I only quoted your first sentence).

    Again, do you have plans for bookstore distribution? Having some local shops carrying the books is not what is meant by distribution. Do those shops order the books from you? Or does the author have to buy and provide copies for those shops to carry them on consignment?
    I know you weren't asking me, but let me answer anyway.

    Publishers with only three or four books out, and sales figures as low as have been quoted in this thread, won't find it easy to get good distributors willing to work with them no matter what their intentions are. Distributors want to know that the publishers they work with have a schedule of great books ahead of them, all published to high standards, and with good marketing support. It's hard to be sure that this is the case, so they expect their publishers to have a history of great books, good production values, and high sales. At this time, BTL has none of these things, so they are extremely unlikely to have access to full distribution.

    Are you willing to address the major typos in the recent book you published? You've mentioned that you've hired an editor, but that isn't really an answer, and it isn't clear that you even recognize the problem (unless I missed something in an earlier post in which case I apologize - I know you addressed issues with the books you put out last year, but there is one that just released a couple of weeks ago with major issues just in the first few pages and I don't see a straight answer about that).
    Once books are published it's really too late to change them. The damage has already been done. And yes, I've seen those major issues and I am still wincing when I think of it. Which is why I wonder what WrdWvr's experience in publishing is, as I doubt it was as an editor.

  14. #64
    figuring it all out C Alberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    I know you weren't asking me, but let me answer anyway.

    Publishers with only three or four books out, and sales figures as low as have been quoted in this thread, won't find it easy to get good distributors willing to work with them no matter what their intentions are. Distributors want to know that the publishers they work with have a schedule of great books ahead of them, all published to high standards, and with good marketing support. It's hard to be sure that this is the case, so they expect their publishers to have a history of great books, good production values, and high sales. At this time, BTL has none of these things, so they are extremely unlikely to have access to full distribution.
    All of this is true. Tiny presses, even new ones with very few titles, can get distribution (through IPS or SPD or IPG, for example) but as you say they do need well-produced books, timely ARCs and other marketing, and a schedule of upcoming releases. But I'm asking these questions of the publisher to try to suss out if she understands how distribution works. I'm assuming given the types of books they are publishing (quality aside) that bookstore distribution is not a priority but I want to know if she will say as much because authors will want to know this. She has referenced getting their books into local shops, but that doesn't mean much of anything. As it is, they don't even offer standard terms through Ingram (I checked - all have a prohibitively short discount, and 2 of 3 titles are listed as nonreturnable).


    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    Once books are published it's really too late to change them. The damage has already been done. And yes, I've seen those major issues and I am still wincing when I think of it. Which is why I wonder what WrdWvr's experience in publishing is, as I doubt it was as an editor.
    Also true. I wonder the same thing, and I find it very troubling that the closest she has come to addressing it is saying that they recently hired an editor. If she has worked as an editor and proofreader then I wonder where her standards are and how that book made it to press as it is.

    I'm also mildly horrified that, in her response to me, she referenced an author's refusal to do marketing as a reason for sales of only 200 copies. But that leads to another whole set of questions and I'm trying to keep things simple and specific to see if I get straight answers.

  15. #65
    practical experience, FTW
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccardey View Post
    Try that with a doctor. Or a car mechanic. Shoot - try that in advertising, see how it works.

    Professional, dude. It's a thing.
    Having a skillset and opening up a new business is not the same. You need the skillset to be able to not fail, but companies usually need time to build up their clientele.

    Thanks to all who explained it. I understand it a bit better now.
    Last edited by chompers; 06-17-2017 at 03:14 AM.

  16. #66
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    I'm not sure why anything is listed as non-returnable with Ingram - I've not listed the company or books with them. Interesting...

    Bookstores - buy directly from us (for now). Books get listed in IBPA's catalogue and through showcased at various book expo/events. Yes, we offer the industry standard of 40% off list, with the ability to return for full credit. We won't charge for shipping on orders of less than 10. We pay return shipping.

    Yes, the catalogue is small and we are working to grow it. I refuse to push out a dozen books a year simply to create a larger catalogue. Eventually, we would like to expand distribution beyond the handful of local stores. For now, we focus on building the catalogue.

    For the recent release, yes that book will be addressed as well. Hence the new editor - the one responsible for that book was let go. The company started with three - I focused on the building the business network. I have experience as an editor - but that consistently seems be confused here. I started as an intern with Bloomsbury, as a proofreader, years ago while living in London. I have over the years worked with several small publishing houses in both the US and UK (remotely). This is while living in Manchester and Sheffield. When we moved to Leicester, I edited for students' dissertations. It was at that time I worked a couple of months with OUP. I wanted to bring in an editor with more experience, which happened only a few weeks ago. Ultimately, it's on me, because it's my name and money that is attached to this business.

    As for the author who's book didn't perform as well as was hoped - she left marketing to us and refused to engage with readers to any degree. It doesn't mean we left it to the side - we have continued to market it. It was one example, our other books are selling.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    There isn't a single corner of Manor Top that I'd consider living in, and I've almost lived in Tottenham. As I said, you must be very hard to have lived there. Really. A few years ago it was decided that fire engines could only go to Manor Top with a police escort, because of the violence the fire fighters encountered when they went to help there. It's one of the UK's gun-crime hotspots, the police station closed because of the threats and violence, and crime levels there are through the roof.
    Wow. When we moved to the area - from Manchester - no one shared its reputation with us. The town homes were brand new and that section looked really nice, but over the year we were there, we discovered looks can be deceiving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hack View Post
    I'm so sorry your son was ill. That must have been a very difficult time for you, especially with all the travelling you must have had to do. It's odd that you went to Alder Hey when Sheffield has its own children's hospital, which is counted as one of the best in the country. I know some specialists are better than others, so understand you might have decided to be referred there but still. It's such a long way away, especially when Sheffield Children's Hospital is so great. My children were both born with disabilities and they have had excellent, world-leading treatment at SCH. I will always be grateful for it.
    The NHS. We were living in Manchester when they decided he needed open heart surgery. We explained that we were moving and they tried to get us into Leeds (they never mentioned Sheffield). No go and we ended up in Liverpool.

    Based on what you say about the area, maybe it was cars. It felt like a war zone. We have restrictions on decibel levels in the states.

    I explained the experience a bit more in the previous post.

    I realize asking this will open up a can of worms, but how is it we have listings on Ingram when I haven't submitted anything to them - especially with terms/discounts? I get it if the purpose of the thread is for me to be on the bottom of a dog pile, but I would appreciate knowing so I can get it fixed.
    Last edited by WrdWvr; 06-17-2017 at 04:03 AM.

  18. #68
    figuring it all out C Alberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    I'm not sure why anything is listed as non-returnable with Ingram - I've not listed the company or books with them. Interesting...
    Do you use Ingram's POD service, Lightning Source, for printing? That would probably do it. POD through CreateSpace can include an Ingram listing as well, I think.

    Edited to also ask - So it seems like the answer is no, in terms of working with real distribution channels, then?
    Last edited by C Alberts; 06-17-2017 at 04:08 AM.

  19. #69
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chompers View Post
    Having a skillset and opening up a new business is not the same. You need the skillset to be able to not fail, but companies usually need time to build up their clientele.

    Thanks to all who explained it. I understand it a bit better now.
    I started an advertising company many years ago. You don't get lenient treatment from your clients because you're new - trust me on that. Part of building a new company is making it as strong as possible before you open for business - which is why one has soft openings: to sort out the bugs before you begin. You don't sort them out on someone else's dime - that's just not how it works.

    ETA: It's also why you start networking early - before the opening - to get all your ducks in line. Hanging a shingle before you have some confidence that your contacts are going to be calling is not a good idea.
    Last edited by mccardey; 06-17-2017 at 04:44 AM.

  20. #70
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    Thank you for the response - yes, these first three books were published via createspace. Not sure why they would list them with such prohibitive terms. Beyond book quality - I wouldn't order books for a shop based on that.

    The only distribution - beyond createspace has been IBPAs catalogue, book expos, and my contacting local shops. There is a definite need in this area.
    Specializing in creative fiction and poetry that delves into the world between. Do you have a character in transition? Urban fantasy or time travel? Paranormal? If you have a story with a liminal theme, we want to hear from you. Between the Lines Publishing

    Check us out on Facebook.

  21. #71
    figuring it all out C Alberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    Thank you for the response - yes, these first three books were published via createspace. Not sure why they would list them with such prohibitive terms. Beyond book quality - I wouldn't order books for a shop based on that.

    Regarding CreateSpace - if they listed it with Ingram, you should know that and it is troublesome to me that you don't know what your printer is doing with your books. Terms can vary based on the publisher's decision (whether it is self-published or through a publisher, like you, who uses their POD service). Ingram takes a cut, the bookstore discount is the difference.



    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    The only distribution - beyond createspace has been IBPAs catalogue, book expos, and my contacting local shops. There is a definite need in this area.
    None of that is what we mean by distribution, and again, it is troublesome to me that you don't know that. Your first 'need' in this area is learning how small, indie press books get distributed.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Alberts View Post
    Regarding CreateSpace - if they listed it with Ingram, you should know that and it is troublesome to me that you don't know what your printer is doing with your books. Terms can vary based on the publisher's decision (whether it is self-published or through a publisher, like you, who uses their POD service). Ingram takes a cut, the bookstore discount is the difference.
    That CreateSpace listed it (with terms) on Ingram without notice is not something I could have know they would do (it's not given in their terms of service). We listed with Amazon first because of it's large customer base.

    My apologies, my response was based on what we've actively been doing. I have contacted two distributors - BookBaby and IPG and am awaiting replies. Once a relationship is established, then we will shift away from CreateSpace.

    Thank you for your help.

  23. #73
    figuring it all out C Alberts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    That CreateSpace listed it (with terms) on Ingram without notice is not something I could have know they would do (it's not given in their terms of service). We listed with Amazon first because of it's large customer base.

    My apologies, my response was based on what we've actively been doing. I have contacted two distributors - BookBaby and IPG and am awaiting replies. Once a relationship is established, then we will shift away from CreateSpace.

    Thank you for your help.
    It must be an error, then, but CreateSpace's "Expanded Distribution" program includes Ingram. I'm amazed that they would cover the cost of it for you if you didn't sign up for it. If I were you I'd make sure you are getting paid for any related sales.

    Also, BookBaby is not a distributor to bookstores (if they claim to be, they are surely not effective), neither is CreateSpace. They are POD services. IPG is a great distributor for small, indie presses from around the world. I believe their POD option is just as a back-up but they require off-set print runs as well (unless this has changed recently). Best of luck getting into their system - if you do, bookstores will at least see what you have to offer.

    I want to add that I'm not trying to harangue you or anything, but I do think you have many misconceptions about how to get books into stores. If it is truly your goal, I suggest doing a lot more research about what bookstore distribution is. It is a completely different thing than online sales platform distribution. It is also different from wholesale (eg Ingram, Baker and Taylor).

    Not all genres and types of books need full distribution to bookstores, but if you want it you have to do it right. And you have to know how to answer honestly if authors ask you about it because there is nothing worse than misleading your authors. That's what everyone in this forum is trying to prevent.

  24. #74
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by C Alberts View Post
    Also, BookBaby is not a distributor to bookstores (if they claim to be, they are surely not effective), neither is CreateSpace. They are POD services. IPG is a great distributor for small, indie presses from around the world. I believe their POD option is just as a back-up but they require off-set print runs as well (unless this has changed recently). Best of luck getting into their system - if you do, bookstores will at least see what you have to offer.

    I want to add that I'm not trying to harangue you or anything, but I do think you have many misconceptions about how to get books into stores. If it is truly your goal, I suggest doing a lot more research about what bookstore distribution is. It is a completely different thing than online sales platform distribution. It is also different from wholesale (eg Ingram, Baker and Taylor).

    Not all genres and types of books need full distribution to bookstores, but if you want it you have to do it right. And you have to know how to answer honestly if authors ask you about it because there is nothing worse than misleading your authors. That's what everyone in this forum is trying to prevent.
    Thank you - all of you, for the honest feedback, comments, and questions. I did not go into this with the intention of misleading anyone - especially authors who are at risk to being scammed. Obviously, working with publishing companies hasn't help in giving the foundation I thought it had. The doors opened with the support of another, but they did not live up to their claimed experience. I've brought on an editor, who has the experience needed to improve quality.

    Also, thank you for the heads up about BookBaby - the person I've been speaking with did present themselves as distributors to bookstores. POD is not the go to in the future. It's not cost effective nor is it a good direction for our authors.

  25. #75
    starting over Marian Perera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    You do realize that once your you're under, you can have a first year surgical resident operating on you? An instructor is next to them, but it's how they learn. 
    You can, but does the prospect of a student operating on them fill patients with confidence?

    And if only all startup publishers had experienced instructors next to them.
    Sleeping Beauty-inspired m/m romance : Editing.

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