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Thread: Between the Lines Publishing

  1. #76
    Such a nasty woman SuperModerator Old Hack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    I'm not sure why anything is listed as non-returnable with Ingram - I've not listed the company or books with them. Interesting...
    You don't have to actively list anything with Ingram. They'll include just about anything with an ISBN in their catalogues.

    Bookstores - buy directly from us (for now). Books get listed in IBPA's catalogue and through showcased at various book expo/events. Yes, we offer the industry standard of 40% off list, with the ability to return for full credit. We won't charge for shipping on orders of less than 10. We pay return shipping.
    In trade publishing terms, "distribution" means having your books represented by a distributor. They carry stocks of your books, they sell them at a good discount, fully returnable, and--most importantly--there will be some sort of sales effort happening for your books, selling them into book shops and other retailers. They handle all order-processing for you, both in and out.

    You don't have this, therefore you don't have distribution. That you don't understand this, when you're a publisher, is a big worry. And 40% is not the industry standard.

    For the recent release, yes that book will be addressed as well. Hence the new editor - the one responsible for that book was let go. The company started with three - I focused on the building the business network. I have experience as an editor - but that consistently seems be confused here. I started as an intern with Bloomsbury, as a proofreader, years ago while living in London. I have over the years worked with several small publishing houses in both the US and UK (remotely). This is while living in Manchester and Sheffield. When we moved to Leicester, I edited for students' dissertations. It was at that time I worked a couple of months with OUP. I wanted to bring in an editor with more experience, which happened only a few weeks ago. Ultimately, it's on me, because it's my name and money that is attached to this business.
    I am really uncomfortable here.

    I am very surprised that Bloomsbury employed an intern specifically to be a proofreader. That's not how interning usually works in publishing: it's usually a general position, with interns assisting in all sorts of departments and with all sorts of tasks.

    You said earlier you interned there as an editor, but an editor is not the same as a proofreader, and people who have done those jobs understand that.

    I see so many errors in your posts here that I don't see how you could have ever worked as an editor or a proofreader. You just don't seem to have an instinct for the work. For example, you wrote "I edited for students' dissertations". That says the students' dissertations employed you, not that you worked on the dissertations. And it's not usual for dissertations to be edited by a freelance: you'd need specialist knowledge in the subject concerned to do the job properly; students can't usually afford the cost of it; and it's just not really done here, in my experience (which admittedly, is small in this area).

    As for the author who's book didn't perform as well as was hoped - she left marketing to us and refused to engage with readers to any degree. It doesn't mean we left it to the side - we have continued to market it. It was one example, our other books are selling.
    Having a writer refuse to engage with readers isn't the best situation for a publisher to be in, but it shouldn't affect sales to the extent that you've suggested. Consider the success of Steig Larsson, for example. He couldn't engage with his readers when he was published because he was dead. And yet his books have sold very well indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    I realize asking this will open up a can of worms, but how is it we have listings on Ingram when I haven't submitted anything to them - especially with terms/discounts? I get it if the purpose of the thread is for me to be on the bottom of a dog pile, but I would appreciate knowing so I can get it fixed.
    All I can see is a reasonable, and not particularly robust, discussion of your publishing business, and the problems we see with it. But if you consider any posts here to be inappropriate, report them. It's more professional and useful than carping about it in-thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    That CreateSpace listed it (with terms) on Ingram without notice is not something I could have know they would do (it's not given in their terms of service). We listed with Amazon first because of it's large customer base.
    As I said earlier, Ingram will list almost anything with an ISBN. Of course it's something you should have known about. It's standard. It makes me wonder how many other publishing-related things you don't realise.

    My apologies, my response was based on what we've actively been doing. I have contacted two distributors - BookBaby and IPG and am awaiting replies. Once a relationship is established, then we will shift away from CreateSpace.
    BookBaby is not a distributor.

    IPG is not likely to work with you, based on the number of books you've published and the quantities you've sold. See their website, here:

    Start-up publishers and smaller publishers (ie. with fewer than 10 titles) who are looking for distribution services can visit Small Press United
    Once you've published a sufficient number of titles you'll need to show a strong sales record and a coherent marketing plan to get a full-service distributor interested in working with you. You'll also have to hold stocks of your books, and that means using offset printing rather than digital.

    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    Thank you - all of you, for the honest feedback, comments, and questions. I did not go into this with the intention of misleading anyone - especially authors who are at risk to being scammed. Obviously, working with publishing companies hasn't help in giving the foundation I thought it had. The doors opened with the support of another, but they did not live up to their claimed experience. I've brought on an editor, who has the experience needed to improve quality.
    My bold.

    I'm not sure what that highlighted sentence is meant to mean. And your writing is full of problems like this.

    I don't mean to be nasty here, but I simply don't see how you can charge anyone for editing services when your own writing is so poor.

    It's good that you've employed an editor: but you don't seem to know even the basics of how publishing works, and that's going to cause problems throughout your business.

    Also, thank you for the heads up about BookBaby - the person I've been speaking with did present themselves as distributors to bookstores. POD is not the go to in the future. It's not cost effective nor is it a good direction for our authors.
    BookBaby does present itself as a distributor. See here:

    How does printed book distribution work?
    Add POD distribution to any bulk printing order of 25 or more books.


    Upload your cover and text PDF files.
    Enter the retail price of your book. This is the price that your title will sell for in the retail stores.
    Complete POD distribution survey. This is where you will provide us with the details of your book including your author bio, title description and metadata.
    BookBaby prepares your files for print and sets up your title in our distribution system.
    In about 3-4 weeks your titles will begin to appear for ordering at online retailers and to our wholesale distribution network.
    Retailers order your title.
    BookBaby prints the books to the demand of the retailer and fulfills the order back to the retailer who turns around and fulfills the order to their buyer.
    Payment is received from the retailers and added to your BookBaby distribution account.
    I agree with you that they present themselves as a distributor, but that doesn't mean they are a distributor, and once again your lack of understanding is the problem here. People who know trade publishing understand what "distribution" means, and would see immediately that what BookBaby offers is not full distribution.

    Again, I'm sorry to be so blunt. I don't doubt your good intentions, or your passion for the work. But I am very concerned by your lack of knowledge and understanding of how publishing works. It will have a direct impact on the books you publish, which will have an impact on those writers' careers. Please: step back. Learn more before you publish anything else.

  2. #77
    ....... Harlequin's Avatar
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    But you *have* published someone you're editing so I dunno why you say you don't.

    I don't care how "well-received" your covers are by the authors--they are categorically poor, for many reasons :/ Not all writers have an eye for that but surely a publisher should.


    Freelance editing re student stuff is very common if you were (for example) working for an essay mill which also offers editing.

    The purpose of the thread isn't to put you at the bottom of a dogpile. A quick skim through this forum will illustrate that. Undergoing a little scrutiny when you're asking people to entrust you with their MS is not being mean.
    Last edited by Harlequin; 06-17-2017 at 04:25 PM.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
    But you *have* published someone you're editing so I dunno why you say you don't.

    I don't care how "well-received" your covers are by the authors--they are categorically poor, for many reasons :/ Not all writers have an eye for that but surely a publisher should.


    Freelance editing re student stuff is very common if you were (for example) working for an essay mill which also offers editing.

    The purpose of the thread isn't to put you at the bottom of a dogpile. A quick skim through this forum will illustrate that. Undergoing a little scrutiny when you're asking people to entrust you with their MS is not being mean.
    The "well-received" comment was based on reader reception and not the authors sole opinion. I've seen covers as avatars in this thread that were poorly done, but they aren't publishing with me, so I left it alone. When selling through an expo, the cover is what gets a buyer's/reader's attention.

    No author, we have published, as ever paid for editing. One book came to us as an editing client. Based on the first chapter (the length of our sample edit), we invited them to submit the full manuscript for consideration.

    Okay, it seems I have to spell things out in finite detail. Bloomsbury - I was brought in as an intern. The majority of my time was as a proofreader, but helped out where ever I was needed. The dissertation and thesis editing was at the University of Leicester. This was for the Ancient History and Archaeology department, though I have helped at other universities where my husband was taking a degree. I was completing my B.A in English while in Leicester and now am finishing my MFA.

    I agree, a little scrutiny when entrusting anyone with your work is important. This thread started because you wanted to check out a company a friend of yours was signing with. Based on the timing, I know which author you were speaking about. They asked fantastic questions and I answered them to their satisfaction. I've known publishers who ignore their authors - often communication is negligible. No one in this company will lie to an author to get them to sign, nor will they ignore questions or concerns.

  4. #79
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    That Bloomsbury would let interns proof their mss is deeply concerning.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    The dissertation and thesis editing was at the University of Leicester. This was for the Ancient History and Archaeology department, though I have helped at other universities where my husband was taking a degree. I was completing my B.A in English while in Leicester and now am finishing my MFA.
    Are you saying you worked for the department of Ancient History and Archaeology at Leicester, and that you proofed dissertations for the department?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by AW Admin View Post
    Are you saying you worked for the department of Ancient History and Archaeology at Leicester, and that you proofed dissertations for the department?
    No, I did not work for the department as an employee. My husband did his Ph.D in the department. The dissertations I worked on were from students in that department.

  7. #82
    please distract me mccardey's Avatar
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    No, I did not work for the department as an employee. My husband did his Ph.D in the department. The dissertations I worked on were from students in that department.
    I think the issue is that with the best will in the world you've oversold your credentials a little. It's a thing that is almost expected in some fields, but is going to be red flag on red flag in this thread - because one of the biggest dangers for new writers lies in getting tangled up with too-new or too-untested or terribly undersupported or - in some cases - absolutely scammy publishing houses.

    It's terrific that you're here to listen and respond, because it shows that you don't have bad intent. You just might not have a product to sell yet.

    ETA: It was really smart of you to limit your first year output to two books - a lot of new publishers die on the hill of Too Big Too Fast and of course they take writers down with them. It's the writers who pay the biggest price when this goes up in flames.
    Last edited by mccardey; 06-18-2017 at 03:02 AM.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mccardey View Post
    I think the issue is that with the best will in the world you've oversold your credentials a little. It's a thing that is almost expected in some fields, but is going to be red flag on red flag in this thread - because one of the biggest dangers for new writers lies in getting tangled up with too-new or too-untested or terribly undersupported or - in some cases - absolutely scammy publishing houses.

    It's terrific that you're here to listen and respond, because it shows that you don't have bad intent. You just might not have a product to sell yet.

    ETA: It was really smart of you to limit your first year output to two books - a lot of new publishers die on the hill of Too Big Too Fast and of course they take writers down with them. It's the writers who pay the biggest price when this goes up in flames.

    Thank you.

  9. #84
    from words to worlds zmethos's Avatar
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    Anyone heard from this publisher lately? I had a short story accepted to an upcoming anthology, and the email said they'd send a contract in August, but nothing. And now their site is apparently on perpetual "maintenance" and no one has responded to my email.

  10. #85
    a demon for tea EMaree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zmethos View Post
    Anyone heard from this publisher lately? I had a short story accepted to an upcoming anthology, and the email said they'd send a contract in August, but nothing. And now their site is apparently on perpetual "maintenance" and no one has responded to my email.
    Chase them directly. I thought the site-under-maintenance would mean they're disappearing, but a quick look at the owner's Facebook page shows they are active and promoting new releases. R34pers of S0uls and M4g1c* comes out on the 29th September by Between the Lines, and they're running a campaign where preorder profits go to help the JJ Watts Foundation with Hurricane Harvey recovery. This, though well-intentioned I'm sure, sits poorly with me.

    They are active, and have no excuse not to respond to a polite enquiry about the contract status.

    *Title altered to avoid the author getting Google alerts, I don't wish for them to be unfairly included in a discussion about their publisher (and I don't believe the pre-order campaign choices should reflect on them personally, only the publisher).
    Last edited by EMaree; 09-13-2017 at 03:31 PM.
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMaree View Post
    Chase them directly. I thought the site-under-maintenance would mean they're disappearing, but a quick look at the owner's Facebook page shows they are active and promoting new releases. R34pers of S0uls and M4g1c* comes out on the 29th September by Between the Lines, and they're running a campaign where preorder profits go to help the JJ Watts Foundation with Hurricane Harvey recovery. This, though well-intentioned I'm sure, sits poorly with me.

    They are active, and have no excuse not to respond to a polite enquiry about the contract status.

    *Title altered to avoid the author getting Google alerts, I don't wish for them to be unfairly included in a discussion about their publisher (and I don't believe the pre-order campaign choices should reflect on them personally, only the publisher).
    Hi,

    Yes, we are very active and appreciate that the donation post "sits poorly with you," but it was a request from the author (a native Texan with friends in the Houston area) to donate his royalties. We joined him in this endeavor. What about the donation doesn't sits poorly?

    All emails or Facebook messages are responded to within 24 hours. There was, unfortunately, a short delay in sending out the contracts, due to the personal impact of Irma, but no emails went unanswered. The anthology is alive and well, contracts sent and looking forward to sending the amazing authors their copies in November.
    Last edited by WrdWvr; 09-20-2017 at 10:38 AM.

  12. #87
    a demon for tea EMaree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrdWvr View Post
    Yes, we are very active and appreciate that the donation post "sits poorly with you," but it was a request from the author (a native Texan with friends in the Houston area) to donate his royalties. We joined him in this endeavor. What about the donation doesn't sits poorly?
    In my previous post, I said: This, though well-intentioned I'm sure, sits poorly with me.

    I am not doubting the good intentions of either yourself or your author, but using a national disaster to incentivize people to preorder a book... is still using a national disaster to incentivize people to buy your book. Good intentions do not change the fact that a disaster is being leveraged to gain sales.

    Please understand that, as a reader, it is my right to find certain subjects distasteful when I'm being given a sales pitch for a book. This is not intended to disparage you or your author.

    Now that I understand the background of the request, which wasn't in the Facebook sales pitch, it certainly feels more reasonable.
    Last edited by EMaree; 09-20-2017 at 02:55 PM.
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  13. #88
    from words to worlds zmethos's Avatar
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    I just wanted to update and say they did send the contract and apologized for the delay; one of the ladies had been evacuated due to Hurricane Irma. They've been perfectly lovely to work with, and I'm looking forward to seeing the anthology.

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