Is it too scary?

RJDrake · May 10, 2017

Hi there guys.
I am new on this forum so I apologise in advance if this thread is in the wrong section. Please feel free to move it around if that's the case.

What I wanted to talk about in this thread is "submissions".
I have specific ideas about things and I'm quite strong headed and what I need right now is some feedback/opinions from people that "know the trade" and simply can have a fresh eye on the matter.

I've been recently (last six months) sending out the first three chapters of my novel plus all the usuals (synopsis and query letter) to few agents. As of now I already received 4 rejections letters and not one request for the whole manuscript.

Now, I need your opinion. What is that scares the agents the most?

I have big plans for my novel and sequels so I don't hesitate to tell the agents about it. The "big picture" is a Saga of 14 separate books that are stand-alones but are linked together by a "mysterious" society. The saga also contains cross-overs between the different stories. Characters that appear in different books are sometimes the main character, sometimes just have a supporting role. Since I'm also an artist besides a writer I have played around a bit and made front covers for all my books and then slammed them all together on one big page and send it over in the query email.

Next thing I know is a mood killer is the word count: 209k. Yes, I know what you are thinking. It's way too long for a YA paranormal story but there really isn't a way to make it shorter. I thought of maybe dividing it into two parts but I'm not sure how that could work with the rest of the saga.

The title of the novel is "Sky's Life" and the saga is called "Requiem Saga".
Just to give you a more precise idea of what the novel is about here is a short synopsis:

Magic is among us and it’s hidden in plain view.
Requiem Corporation, a multi-millionaire world-wide known scientific company, is the facade of the world of Witchcraft, hiding Sorcerers and Witches in its ranks.
When Sky Grey discovers that she also is part of this world of magic her life changes drastically.
A peculiar Gipsy Witch teaching her magic in her backyard, the disappearance of her secular ghost-friend and her brother’s unexpected return are just the beginning of her problems.
Her new Requiem missions are spiced up by her unlikely companion, Raphael, her long-lasting crush who she despises and is attracted to at the same time.
But it’s not all rainbows and unicorns because magic hides dark secrets that cannot stay buried anymore.

(This is the same bit I put in my query letter to describe what the story is about.)

Another problem for me is that English is not my native language. I have been living in the UK for three years and before that, I mostly spoke Italian and Polish.
What I'm concerned about is that my English might sound dodgy to native speakers/people that have been speaking English for a long time.
From just my post do you think that might be a problem? Also, if anyone has a similar situation like this let me know about your experiences.

And last (that should probably be first): am I trying to hard?
I have read a lot that the query mail should be memorable and should stand out so I tried to do something "funny" that wouldn't just be the "I'm looking for representation" and this is what came out as the first line of my letter:

Dear Mr/Mrs what'shis/hername,
When twelve years ago I didn’t receive my letter from Hogwarts I was greatly disappointed but I decided not to give up on magic quite yet.
With time, I understood that if I really wanted to live the magic there were only two ways to do it: to read and write books.

This started when I was submitting to the Blair Partnership (the people that publish J.K.Rowling) and I was trying to get in the mood (my book is about a witch too so you know magic and blah blah) but after they said no I still kept this as a first line as I thought it was memorable/intriguing. What do you guys think about it? Too much?

I am currently re-writing the first chapter (for like the fifth time) to make it more appealing and I think I finally got to a better start. So hopefully that will help too.

I think that's all. Please let me know your thoughts and please don't be too harsh!

Cyia · May 10, 2017

Okay, deep breath time and don't get freaked out by the red pen. It's only blood. :tongue

RJDrake said:
Hi there guys.
I am new on this forum so I apologise in advance if this thread is in the wrong section. Please feel free to move it around if that's the case.

What I wanted to talk about in this thread is "submissions".
I have specific ideas about things and I'm quite strong headed and what I need right now is some feedback/opinions from people that "know the trade" and simply can have a fresh eye on the matter.

Pausing to tell you that we've got a Share Your Work section where you can post queries, synopses, and chapters once you've got 50 posts.

I've been recently (last six months) sending out the first three chapters of my novel plus all the usuals (synopsis and query letter) to few agents. As of now I already received 4 rejections letters and not one request for the whole manuscript.

Automatically sending three chapters - unless you're subbing in the UK - is unusual. If you're attaching these chapters, then you're likely getting auto-rejections. Most agents won't touch attachments they don't request. (For good, virus-prevention, reasons.)

Now, I need your opinion. What is that scares the agents the most?

Probably nothing is scaring them; they're either not connecting with the material, or you're violating their submission guidelines with your emails.

I have big plans for my novel and sequels so I don't hesitate to tell the agents about it. The "big picture" is a Saga of 14 separate books that are stand-alones but are linked together by a "mysterious" society. Oh boy. I think we may have hit BINGO.

Nothing - at all - wrong with a series. Even a long series. However, at the query stage, all you say is "This novel is complete and stands alone, but has series potential." You go into specifics once the agent's asked for a call to get more details. You might add something about A Series of Unfortunate Events, as it's got about that many books, so it might work for comp. purposes.

The saga also contains cross-overs between the different stories. Characters that appear in different books are sometimes the main character, sometimes just have a supporting role. Since I'm also an artist besides a writer I have played around a bit and made front covers for all my books and then slammed them all together on one big page and send it over in the query email.

DO NOT DO THIS.

It SCREAMS amateur. Publishers make the covers; they have their own artists. At the publication stage, you can show your covers to your editor for an indication of what you hope in a cover (they often ask), but don't expect them to use it.

Next thing I know is a mood killer is the word count: 209k. Yes, I know what you are thinking. It's way too long for a YA paranormal story but there really isn't a way to make it shorter. I thought of maybe dividing it into two parts but I'm not sure how that could work with the rest of the saga.

You're getting auto-rejections; I guarantee it. Either get yourself a beta and cut this thing down to a more manageable size (at least cut by half) or find a way to make this book into two.

The title of the novel is "Sky's Life" and the saga is called "Requiem Saga". This has no bearing on a book being accepted or not.
Just to give you a more precise idea of what the novel is about here is a short synopsis:

Magic is among us and it’s hidden in plain view.
Requiem Corporation, a multi-millionaire world-wide known scientific company, is the facade of the world of Witchcraft, hiding Sorcerers and Witches in its ranks.
When Sky Grey discovers that she also is part of this world of magic her life changes drastically.
A peculiar Gipsy Witch teaching her magic in her backyard, the disappearance of her secular ghost-friend and her brother’s unexpected return are just the beginning of her problems.
Her new Requiem missions are spiced up by her unlikely companion, Raphael, her long-lasting crush who she despises and is attracted to at the same time.
But it’s not all rainbows and unicorns because magic hides dark secrets that cannot stay buried anymore.

(This is the same bit I put in my query letter to describe what the story is about.)
None of this goes in this part of the board; it's against the rules. It goes in Share Your Work, which is password protected.
Another problem for me is that English is not my native language. I have been living in the UK for three years and before that, I mostly spoke Italian and Polish.

I wouldn't have known that, so I'm guessing your English skills aren't raising any flags.
What I'm concerned about is that my English might sound dodgy to native speakers/people that have been speaking English for a long time.

Nope. You're good, at least from what I can tell from here.
From just my post do you think that might be a problem? Also, if anyone has a similar situation like this let me know about your experiences.

And last (that should probably be first): am I trying to hard?
I have read a lot that the query mail should be memorable and should stand out so I tried to do something "funny" that wouldn't just be the "I'm looking for representation" and this is what came out as the first line of my letter:

DO NOT DO THIS

Dear Mr/Mrs what'shis/hername,
When twelve years ago I didn’t receive my letter from Hogwarts I was greatly disappointed but I decided not to give up on magic quite yet.
With time, I understood that if I really wanted to live the magic there were only two ways to do it: to read and write books.

This started when I was submitting to the Blair Partnership (the people that publish J.K.Rowling) and I was trying to get in the mood (my book is about a witch too so you know magic and blah blah) but after they said no I still kept this as a first line as I thought it was memorable/intriguing. What do you guys think about it? Too much?

The folks at Blair are exceptionally nice and exceptionally professional. Your letter is not professional.

I am currently re-writing the first chapter (for like the fifth time) to make it more appealing and I think I finally got to a better start. So hopefully that will help too.

I think that's all. Please let me know your thoughts and please don't be too harsh!

Get your 50 posts and put your first chapter in Share Your Work here. You'll get some outside eyes / opinions on the writing. And Good luck.

be frank · May 10, 2017

Hi, RJ.

First off, your English seems excellent. It's certainly better than my Italian and Polish.

Second, I won't comment on the specific contents of your query here. Once you've reached 50 posts, you can post your query in Query Letter Hell for critique.

So. Your enthusiasm is admirable. It's also doing you more harm than good. Taken one at a time:

RJDrake said:
I've been recently (last six months) sending out the first three chapters of my novel plus all the usuals (synopsis and query letter) to few agents.

Okay, good start. (Assuming the three chapters were appropriate for those agents' submission guidelines).

RJDrake said:
I have big plans for my novel and sequels so I don't hesitate to tell the agents about it. The "big picture" is a Saga of 14 separate books that are stand-alones but are linked together by a "mysterious" society.

This is less good. The agent cares about this book, not the planned sprawling saga. The query should simply state this is a standalone novel with series potential. Save the Big Plans Discussion for later.

RJDrake said:
Since I'm also an artist besides a writer I have played around a bit and made front covers for all my books and then slammed them all together on one big page and send it over in the query email.

Nope. Don't do this. By all means, make the covers for your own enjoyment, but don't send them with the query. The query is a business letter.

RJDrake said:
Next thing I know is a mood killer is the word count: 209k. Yes, I know what you are thinking. It's way too long for a YA paranormal story

Yes, it is way too long. That's auto-reject right there. You're about twice the length of the maximum advised for YA fantasy, and about three times too long for YA paranormal.

RJDrake said:
but there really isn't a way to make it shorter.

Yes, there is.

RJDrake said:
I thought of maybe dividing it into two parts but I'm not sure how that could work with the rest of the saga.

Now's not the time to worry about the rest of the saga. If you're querying with a view to trade publishing, all that matters is book one. That's it. If you don't get book one right, there won't be a book two or a book three. Basically, you're getting ahead of yourself.

RJDrake said:
And last (that should probably be first): am I trying to hard?

Heh. A little bit, yes. You're using your enthusiasm gun to shoot yourself in the foot.

Luckily, it's not a fatal wound. You've only queried a handful of agents. There's time to fix it.

RJDrake said:
I have read a lot that the query mail should be memorable and should stand out so I tried to do something "funny" that wouldn't just be the "I'm looking for representation"

See above: the query is a business letter. Avoid gimmicks like the plague. A bit of humour in the personalization (at the end of the query, after you've already hooked 'em with the query's contents) is fine IMO, but gimmicks are a big no-no.

RJDrake said:
I am currently re-writing the first chapter (for like the fifth time) to make it more appealing and I think I finally got to a better start.

FYI, when you get to 50 posts, you can also post your first chapter in the Submit Your Work sub-forum.

CoffeeBeans · May 10, 2017

I think your comment on people who "know the trade" is really important to answering almost everything in the rest of the post.

Your core idea sounds like an interesting one, and it's clear you love your story. On the other hand, there are a lot of ways everything else you're talking about is defying commercial expectations - the word count, pitching the MS with sequels, even the format of the query letter.

Add on your own concerns about the English in the MS, and you've given industry professionals a lot of reasons to pass on the project.

The good part is that you're here! AW is a great place to work on all of those things. While I'm sure another revision pass couldn't hurt, I bet a beta reader could help you with finding areas to trim your word count and double check your language. Once you have enough posts, Show Your Work and Query Letter Hell can be very helpful in making sure your open and query letter are the best they can be.

As for the 14-book stand alone series.... if they all stand alone, maybe it's better to just not mention that until you have an agent interested. :tongue

Welcome!

Maggie Maxwell · May 10, 2017

So I'm going to try and be gentle here, but I am going to give the truth. Try to keep an open mind. It's not a case where you're scaring agents. It's that you're kinda showing that you don't know the business or its standards, and most likely, your query is getting lost in the hundreds of other queries they get from people who don't know either. But, plus side, you're here, and you're seeking advice. Fantastic.

And we're here to help.

RJDrake said:
I've been recently (last six months) sending out the first three chapters of my novel plus all the usuals (synopsis and query letter) to few agents. As of now I already received 4 rejections letters and not one request for the whole manuscript.

You may already be doing this, but make sure you're only sending what the agents request, and usually, not as attachments but in the body of the email unless otherwise specified. If they only want query, only send the query. If they want the first 50 pages, send the first 50. It shows not only that you can read and follow directions, but that you'll be easy to work with because you're willing to work with them.

I have big plans for my novel and sequels so I don't hesitate to tell the agents about it. The "big picture" is a Saga of 14 separate books that are stand-alones but are linked together by a "mysterious" society. The saga also contains cross-overs between the different stories. Characters that appear in different books are sometimes the main character, sometimes just have a supporting role.

"Standalone novel with series potential" is the phrasing you want to use, and that's it. An agent can easily sell one novel, and if it's successful, the rest can follow. Look at it like this: if someone came to your door selling books, would it be easier for them to sell you a single book, or a 14-book series? It's the same for agents to publishers. Sell the first book, and don't expect to sell any others after it just yet.

Since I'm also an artist besides a writer I have played around a bit and made front covers for all my books and then slammed them all together on one big page and send it over in the query email.

No, no, no. Any publisher is going to supply the cover, and you may or may not have a say in it. Agents don't care about the cover in this stage. They care about the book and the writing.

Next thing I know is a mood killer is the word count: 209k. Yes, I know what you are thinking. It's way too long for a YA paranormal story but there really isn't a way to make it shorter. I thought of maybe dividing it into two parts but I'm not sure how that could work with the rest of the saga.

This is literally twice as long as the standard YA book's maximum length. Harry Potter didn't get that big until the 4th book, and only the 5th was longer. Binding is expensive at that length, and publishers will not want to invest in it if they don't know if your book will be successful. That sort of length is something that has to be earned after sales. If you want an agent and a trade publisher, you have to cut this down.

Just to give you a more precise idea of what the novel is about here is a short synopsis:

Magic is among us and it’s hidden in plain view.
Requiem Corporation, a multi-millionaire world-wide known scientific company, is the facade of the world of Witchcraft, hiding Sorcerers and Witches in its ranks.
When Sky Grey discovers that she also is part of this world of magic her life changes drastically.
A peculiar Gipsy Witch teaching her magic in her backyard, the disappearance of her secular ghost-friend and her brother’s unexpected return are just the beginning of her problems.
Her new Requiem missions are spiced up by her unlikely companion, Raphael, her long-lasting crush who she despises and is attracted to at the same time.
But it’s not all rainbows and unicorns because magic hides dark secrets that cannot stay buried anymore.

(This is the same bit I put in my query letter to describe what the story is about.)

Like Cyia said, this isn't the place for query crits, but I will say that if the wordcount hasn't led to autorejections, the vague query with too many Capital Words will. Go read the heck out of Query Letter Hell. Get your 50 posts and then you can share the whole thing for review by dozens of wise and experienced individuals.

Another problem for me is that English is not my native language. I have been living in the UK for three years and before that, I mostly spoke Italian and Polish.
What I'm concerned about is that my English might sound dodgy to native speakers/people that have been speaking English for a long time.
From just my post do you think that might be a problem?

Based on your posts, no. Based on the fact that I just finished betaing part of a native Italian/German speaker's English novel, I'm going to say yes, absolutely. Get English-speaking beta readers, because there are things that get missed in translation and I kinda see some of that in your query (like all the capital letter words, a common thing I saw in my friend's novel too.)

And last (that should probably be first): am I trying to hard?
I have read a lot that the query mail should be memorable and should stand out so I tried to do something "funny" that wouldn't just be the "I'm looking for representation" and this is what came out as the first line of my letter:

Dear Mr/Mrs what'shis/hername,
When twelve years ago I didn’t receive my letter from Hogwarts I was greatly disappointed but I decided not to give up on magic quite yet.
With time, I understood that if I really wanted to live the magic there were only two ways to do it: to read and write books.

This started when I was submitting to the Blair Partnership (the people that publish J.K.Rowling) and I was trying to get in the mood (my book is about a witch too so you know magic and blah blah) but after they said no I still kept this as a first line as I thought it was memorable/intriguing. What do you guys think about it? Too much?

Don't do this don't do this don't do this. The query letter is a business letter. It's like a resume for a job. Don't be cutesy and twee to try to stand out, because I guarantee, they've seen cutesy and twee more than they can stand, and while it might have been cute or funny at first, now it's probably eye-rolling. A person who shows up to an interview in a banana suit will certainly be remembered, but they're probably not going to get the job unless they have a fantastic resume, or maybe even IF they have a fantastic resume. Stand out with an exceptional story and query that covers why it's exceptional.

Again, get 50 posts and take your material to Query Letter Hell and Share Your Work. We're all here to help you out and help you get your story published how you want it published.

Sage · May 10, 2017

As long as nobody's critting the query part, I'm going to let this stay open. As others have said before, RJ, once you have 50 contributory posts to AW, you are welcome and encouraged to go to Share Your Work (password: vista) and get your query letter critted. It might help in the meantime to go to Query Letter Hell and crit other queries to figure out what works and what doesn't. You'll also see other critiques and get a sense of what works for others.

I suspect, though, regardless of how good or not your query letter may be, that the word count is a big barrier, as well as if you're pitching it as a 14-book saga, rather than a standalone. If your book is indeed a standalone, you should pitch it that way as a "standalone with series potential." If they love a book, agents and editors love the idea of it being able to launch into a series, but this book must stand alone, and pitching as a series may make an agent worry that it can't (or you won't let it) be sold alone. You have to sell the first book before the rest can be sold, after all. And coupled with your immense word count (which is probably the bigger problem), you seem to be asking them to take on about 3 million words. As for the first book's word count, I suspect that you are too close to the material to objectively see what can be taken out. A good (ambitious) beta reader might help you see the parts that could be cut. They might also help you tighten the scenes you keep and the language. Your English in the OP is excellent, but I bet it's harder for you to see tighter ways of writing the same thing.

RJDrake · May 10, 2017

Wow guys, really thank you so much! I didn't expect so much help in so little time.
All of you have made really good points and it's really good to have an external opinion as I'm into it too personally and don't see potential problems.

Sage & Cyia, I really like the "standalone with series potential" concept. I was probably trying to oversell it and show that I had ideas for the long run but now that you made me notice it, I'm probably burdening the agents with way too much.

I will take everyone's advice and go for the 50 posts and start getting critiques on my actual writing.
In the meantime, I'll start re-writing my query letter in a more professional way.

Also, I forgot to specify, when I send query + chapters I don't do copy paste and just send it out in bulk. I actually do a lot of research on the agent and try to include a sentence or two that links my novel to what they are interested in/what they have been working on. I always follow the submissions guidelines, so don't worry about that part!

Regarding the length, I can see the problem but still, this is my weak part. In perspective, I could probably lose around 20k words in total but I'm afraid that if I was to cut it by half it would just lose its "meaning". This is something I really need to work on.

(I really need a beta that isn't my mother!)

mccardey · May 10, 2017

Also - read twenty query letters every morning before breakfast. You'll soon get a taste for how they're supposed to look

(And read the Stickies as well.)

Good luck! I love how much you clearly love writing. Keep that - it will serve you well.

RJDrake · May 10, 2017

mccardey thanks for the advice. Query letters will be now my everyday goal.

Thank you! It's really nice to see that my love for writing can be seen in such a short post.

Is it too scary?

RJDrake

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

be frank

not a bloke, not named frank

CoffeeBeans

Maggie Maxwell

Making Einstein cry since 1994

Sage

Supreme Guessinator

RJDrake

mccardey

RJDrake