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Thread: President Trump Fires FBI Director Comey

  1. #301
    Just Another Lazy Perfectionist Brightdreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regdog View Post
    If the Republicans do nothing about this, they are complicit in treason and obstruction of justice.
    It's possible they've been complicit in the treason bit since at least November, even if the latter bit is new. Yet another reason we need a real, unobstructed investigation that we're unlikely to actually see happen. (Recent appointments on that front are encouraging, but not beyond reach or beyond stopping... and if this goes as deep as it looks like it might, that's an awful big hydra with many heads to overcome.)
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  2. #302
    practical experience, FTW Catherine's Avatar
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    Feeling slightly nauseated reading this. In my rose-colored-glasses world, I believed Paul Ryan to be driven by his ideals. I always thought if our democracy were threatened, he would be driven by those same ideals to protect it, regardless of which political party is involved.

    I can't understand why more republicans (citizens, not politicians) are not outraged by this.
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  3. #303
    figuring it all out Technophobe's Avatar
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    Because they view themselves as the only 'true' Americans, and things are working out okay for them, so what's to be upset about?

  4. #304
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser-Kun View Post
    From the link:
    President Trump told Russian officials last week that a day earlier, he fired FBI Director James Comey, whom Mr. Trump called a "real nut job," and said that it relieved "great pressure" on him, according to a report published Friday by The New York Times.

    "I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job," Mr. Trump said in the Oval Office, according to a summary of the meeting, obtained by the Times.

    "I faced great pressure because of Russia. That's taken off," he added.
    Something to keep in mind – the statement by Donald Trump is neither criminal nor treasonous. It's mind-boggling, but that's about it.

    It won't make the slightest difference to his supporters, and the few Republicans in Congress who will comment will simply say, once again, "I'm troubled by this" before they turn over and go back to sleep on a bed made of poor people. (Not mine, that was a retweet I saw somewhere that amused me)

    The only thing that might shake the faith of Trump supporters is if a video surfaced of him bragging to his rich friends that the reason he got elected is that his supporters are so stupid they actually believed him when when he promised he would bring back jobs and health care, etc.
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  5. #305
    Pie aren't squared, pie are round! Introversion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catherine View Post
    Feeling slightly nauseated reading this. In my rose-colored-glasses world, I believed Paul Ryan to be driven by his ideals.
    I'm afraid I've long seen him as a spineless weasel. Not to mention, a bit of a dolt. How anyone can believe Ayn Rand wrote good guides for governance, let alone fiction worth reading, is beyond me.

  6. #306
    Pie aren't squared, pie are round! Introversion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugcat View Post
    It won't make the slightest difference to his supporters
    It really won't.

    “It’s all bullshit,” said Joe Conicelli, a merchant selling artisanal peanut butter at the weekly farmers’ market in Bethlehem. Conicelli grew up in the area and said he had been with Trump “all the way”.

    “Let the guy do his thing, then judge him,” Conicelli said. “The Democrats wanted him out three months ago, so what’s the difference? It’s just bullshit.”

    ...

    It’s plain sabotage, Trump backers said on Thursday, echoing a line put out by the president’s campaign machine earlier this week.

    “They’re gonna pick on him because he won,” said Sandy Emrich, manager of the Trolley Shop restaurant in East Bangor. “The Democrats are making it that way. He didn’t do anything any other president didn’t do.”

    ...

    “This Russian thing, I think that’s stupid,” said Joan Hallett, who owns the place with her husband. “We didn’t vote because the Russians tried to change our opinions. They don’t realize that the people were tired of Obama. And they wanted a change.”

    “If they’d leave him alone and quit contriving stuff against him, he’d do a hell of a job,” said John Griffin, a retired elevator technician. “If they get rid of this contrived stuff, he’d be a hell of a president.”

    ...

  7. #307
    Watching the Whales vsrenard's Avatar
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    Yes, I see a lot of this from Trump-supporting acquaintances/in-laws. They don't care about Russia. They care about not paying for the ACA and having good jobs. The country can go to pot so long as they get those things.

    Frankly, I've gotten to the point where I cherish the daily leaking drips. I have no illusions Trump will be impeached and I don't want him to be. Blocking him through daily distractions is loads better than President Pence or Hatch or whoever emerges scot-free from this mess.
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  8. #308
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    James Comey will be testifying on Thursday, where he is expected to testify that Donald Trump ask him to back off on the Michael Flynn investigation.

    But now, it appears that Trump also approached top intelligence officials and asked them if they would intervene with the FBI director to derail the Flynn investigation as well.
    The nation’s top intelligence official told associates in March that President Trump asked him if he could intervene with then-FBI Director James B. Comey to get the bureau to back off its focus on former national security adviser Michael Flynn in its Russia probe, according to officials.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...83b_story.html

    In normal times, this might strengthen the case for impeachment. But I still believe that the GOP controlled Congress will never start any impeachment proceedings, unless something beyond belief were to be revealed, and I don't see that happening.

    Since the Russia investigation has not stopped, the line will be that what Trump did may have been inappropriate and ill-advised but did not actually consist of any crime or rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

    But this got me thinking – what if Trump were to be impeached, convicted and removed from office? Many would cheer of course. But there is also a hard-core base that would be of the opinion that the charges were trumped up (no pun unintended) nothing but lies, and that the elite, including the Republican establishment for whom they have no love, illegally removed from office the one man who could save America.

    I think these true believer hard-core supporters are in the minority – maybe 20-25%. But that's an awful lot of people. What would the backlash look like?

    I'm thinking we might see civil unrest unlike anything we've seen since the 60s and probably larger than that. And unlike the hippies in the 60s, many Trump supporters own guns, carry guns, and believe themselves to be patriots. We might then see something violent and unprecedented since the days of the Whiskey and Shay's rebellions, only not so geographically isolated.

    Still might be worth it – but the aftermath of any type of armed civil unrest might be enough to make today's partisan divide look like a lovefest.
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  9. #309
    Perpetually in transit Helix's Avatar
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    And James Clapper has just given this week's National Press Club Address in Canberra. I didn't see it, but according to Aussie journo Josh Taylor on Twitter,
    At the beginning of his speech, James Clapper said it was about as far away from Washington as he could get. Then unleashed on Trump.
    It will be up on ABC iView soon. Not sure if it's geoblocked, if that's such a thing anymore in these days of VPNs.


  10. #310
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugcat View Post
    James Comey will be testifying on Thursday, where he is expected to testify that Donald Trump ask him to back off on the Michael Flynn investigation.

    But now, it appears that Trump also approached top intelligence officials and asked them if they would intervene with the FBI director to derail the Flynn investigation as well.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...83b_story.html

    In normal times, this might strengthen the case for impeachment. But I still believe that the GOP controlled Congress will never start any impeachment proceedings, unless something beyond belief were to be revealed, and I don't see that happening.

    Since the Russia investigation has not stopped, the line will be that what Trump did may have been inappropriate and ill-advised but did not actually consist of any crime or rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

    But this got me thinking – what if Trump were to be impeached, convicted and removed from office? Many would cheer of course. But there is also a hard-core base that would be of the opinion that the charges were trumped up (no pun unintended) nothing but lies, and that the elite, including the Republican establishment for whom they have no love, illegally removed from office the one man who could save America.

    I think these true believer hard-core supporters are in the minority – maybe 20-25%. But that's an awful lot of people. What would the backlash look like?

    I'm thinking we might see civil unrest unlike anything we've seen since the 60s and probably larger than that. And unlike the hippies in the 60s, many Trump supporters own guns, carry guns, and believe themselves to be patriots. We might then see something violent and unprecedented since the days of the Whiskey and Shay's rebellions, only not so geographically isolated.

    Still might be worth it – but the aftermath of any type of armed civil unrest might be enough to make today's partisan divide look like a lovefest.
    I don't think they'll even consider impeaching him until he's outlived his usefulness to them (which you'd think would have come and gone but...).

    However, we don't not impeach someone because people might get pissy about it. We don't not try someone in any court because people might get pissy about it.

    If they do, that's what cops are for.

  11. #311
    AW's resident Velociraptor ShaunHorton's Avatar
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    Reports are also that Trump plans to personally live-tweet his responses to Comey's statements on Thursday. (As if he doesn't have better things to do...)
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  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugcat View Post
    I think these true believer hard-core supporters are in the minority – maybe 20-25%. But that's an awful lot of people. What would the backlash look like?
    There was backlash from Nixon supporters when he was forced to resign, or face certain impeachment and conviction. And it was probably a similar percentage. Once Gerald Ford assumed office, that vanished. Same thing would happen should Mike Pence become POTUS. It's not like he would be replaced by a Democrat.

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  13. #313
    Closer than ever efreysson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rugcat View Post
    illegally removed from office the one man who could save America.
    Save it from what, exactly?

  14. #314
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacbird View Post
    There was backlash from Nixon supporters when he was forced to resign, or face certain impeachment and conviction. And it was probably a similar percentage. Once Gerald Ford assumed office, that vanished. Same thing would happen should Mike Pence become POTUS. It's not like he would be replaced by a Democrat.

    caw
    Just as Trump is unlike any president before him, so are his supporters different than any before them. I think it goes beyond politics and we would see something unprecedented. 0TOH, I don't believe he will ever be impeached, so it's all hypothetical.
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  15. #315
    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    Senate Intelligence Committee hearing today: all four giving testimony dodged the Trump question saying they never felt pressured but refusing to say if Trump had asked them in any way to quash the investigation. They went so far as to refuse to answer if they had any written records of their meetings with Trump. And they gave unclear answers when asked to commit to answering the questions in the classified hearing later in the afternoon.

    Asked if there was any legal reason Rosenstein could give for refusing to answer and he said, no.


    Side note: Yet again the male Senators butt in and chastise the female Senator Kamala Harris for the same kind of questioning (demanding a yes or no answer when Rosenstein began some long non-answer) that I've seen male members of Congress do often. Once in a great while someone from the party not liking the question will stop another and say, let the witness answer, but try it as a woman and you'll be perceived as too pushy in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by MaeZe; 06-07-2017 at 09:48 PM.

  16. #316
    Herder of Hamsters AW Admin's Avatar
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    You can read the text of Comey's prepared statement for tomorrow's testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee.

    There's a National Review article about it here. Be interesting to see a wide variety of responses. The National Review's take in brief is:

    It’s detailed, it offers on-the-record confirmation of a variety of anonymously sourced news reports, and it’s damaging. To be sure, there are some elements that are good for President Trump, but overall it shows a chief executive placing improper pressure on the FBI director — pressure that no GOP politician would tolerate from a Democratic president.

  17. #317
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShaunHorton View Post
    Reports are also that Trump plans to personally live-tweet his responses to Comey's statements on Thursday. (As if he doesn't have better things to do...)
    Unfortunately, I think his babysitters handlers are trying to prevent this. They've filled his day with busy work to keep him occupied. Too bad. I was going to follow the Comey thing via Trump tweets, just for the entertainment value.
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  19. #319
    sounds like an alcohol-poisoning lawsuit waiting to happen.
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  20. #320
    AW's resident Velociraptor ShaunHorton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElaineA View Post
    Unfortunately, I think his babysitters handlers are trying to prevent this. They've filled his day with busy work to keep him occupied. Too bad. I was going to follow the Comey thing via Trump tweets, just for the entertainment value.
    I think in order to do that, they'll have to preemptively steal his phone from him. Though, to be fair, he hasn't tweeted in 13 hours now, so that may in fact be the case.
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  21. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by rugcat View Post
    James Comey will be testifying on Thursday, where he is expected to testify that Donald Trump ask him to back off on the Michael Flynn investigation.

    But now, it appears that Trump also approached top intelligence officials and asked them if they would intervene with the FBI director to derail the Flynn investigation as well.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...83b_story.html

    In normal times, this might strengthen the case for impeachment. But I still believe that the GOP controlled Congress will never start any impeachment proceedings, unless something beyond belief were to be revealed, and I don't see that happening.

    Since the Russia investigation has not stopped, the line will be that what Trump did may have been inappropriate and ill-advised but did not actually consist of any crime or rise to the level of an impeachable offense.

    But this got me thinking – what if Trump were to be impeached, convicted and removed from office? Many would cheer of course. But there is also a hard-core base that would be of the opinion that the charges were trumped up (no pun unintended) nothing but lies, and that the elite, including the Republican establishment for whom they have no love, illegally removed from office the one man who could save America.

    I think these true believer hard-core supporters are in the minority – maybe 20-25%. But that's an awful lot of people. What would the backlash look like?

    I'm thinking we might see civil unrest unlike anything we've seen since the 60s and probably larger than that. And unlike the hippies in the 60s, many Trump supporters own guns, carry guns, and believe themselves to be patriots. We might then see something violent and unprecedented since the days of the Whiskey and Shay's rebellions, only not so geographically isolated.

    Still might be worth it – but the aftermath of any type of armed civil unrest might be enough to make today's partisan divide look like a lovefest.
    Donald will incite violence, as he did during the campaign. So although I do believe some of his supporters would act violently on their own. It would be isolated incidences in concentration areas. It'll be Donald that will make sure the unrest is widespread.
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  22. #322
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    Okay, sorry for the not-so-intellectual questions, but I'd like to have a better understanding of this.

    Is it legal for Trump to fire the FBI director? As in, for any reason: Trump doesn't like his tie, or whatever. Or does he need some sort of proof that the FBI director did something wrong? Aren't all government jobs unionized these days? Wouldn't that prohibit a blanket "he was a nut job" type of firing? I'm unclear on presidential powers in this area, but it seems implausible that it's okay to fire someone for no real reason. That's an abuse of power. The guy should have at least cheated on his taxes or something.

    I already understand that the "real" reason (or at least the reason that seems most plausible--I believe there's a lot we never hear about) is that Trump was being investigated, and he's unhappy about this.

    The impeachment of Andrew Johnson was for violating the Tenure of Office Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeac...Andrew_Johnson), and it seems like a similar situation, at least on the surface. Obviously, it's missing the whole Reconstruction source of conflict and behind-the-scenes drama. I'm really better at history than current events.

    Any light someone could shed on this for me would be greatly appreciated. It seems to me that the law's been violated. Okay, we don't impeach people for the equivalent of speeding tickets (not that the president drives, but you get the idea). However, it seems to me that the Johnson impeachment would set a clear precedent.

    Or am I really missing something? You can just tell me if I am.
    Last edited by CathleenT; 06-08-2017 at 11:06 AM.


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  23. #323
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Cathleen, a couple of things answer your question. 1. The FBI Director is a 10 year appointment. The object is to keep politics out of the job. 2. Technically, any President can fire the FBI Director at-will, but before Trump, Presidents kept to the norms of the office, letting the director run his or her tenure. It's not technically illegal to fire them, it just "isn't done."

    As for impeachment, that requires a vote of Congress. Any member can draw up impeachment papers (the Democrats already have), but if Congress doesn't take it up, vote to proceed, and then hold hearings, no impeachment process will begin. This Republican congress will never take up a vote, which is why, if one thinks Trump is a danger to the future of our country, impeachment hearings will require a flipping of the House so that the Democrats are back in control. Not easy since so many districts are gerrymandered to ensure R control of the district, and minimization of D-voters impact. There are layers and layers of measures the Republicans have been building to win office and stay there.
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  24. #324
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    No early morning tweets today. I guess every TV in the white house will mysteriously malfunction today.
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  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser-Kun View Post
    No early morning tweets today. I guess every TV in the white house will mysteriously malfunction today.
    I figure some staffer is shining a laser pointer at the wall all morning, followed by a glass of milk, apple slices and then a nap.
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