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Which jobs are good for writers?

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Albdantesque

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Hello,

I do not see any money coming from writing in my native language (and I do not see myself writing fiction in English). Nonetheless, by all accounts, I will keep writing till my death. If I fail becoming a good writer, I will probably realize the fact by critics & reviews, not by poverty.... some great writers in my country were rich, but the majority lived and died in total poverty.

Anyway, I landed a job with a state agency (here in the US) and I do not feel that it is the right job for me. I am a prolific writer (in five years I have written 3 novels, 5 shorts stories, a play, an MA thesis, and many essays), but I think that the office position I hold is killing day by day the writer I knew. I will probably wait to complete the probation period and will switch position or even disappear from NY :) Unfortunately, my options are very few. I am almost deaf and I cannot perform many job-related tasks. For a writer, I think teaching, bartending and reception would be great jobs, but all these positions need excellent hearing skills, which I luck.

Now, I am wondering which jobs would be great in my case? I need something that pays me without wasting my brain & sight with things that I am not interested at all or, at least, a job where I can make enough money (1100$ a month) with working just 20 hours a week.

I hope I am not asking too much :) I am still wondering if a hard of hearing person can become a good lecturer (I have two MA from the USA) or a good receptionist/doorman? Are there other options for hard of hearing writers?

Thank your for your support!
 

cornflake

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I can see where bartending and receptionist might be a stretch (though receptionist where is important -- I interviewed for a pt reception position at a school for the deaf when I was in college. Hearing was not a requirement (though I am).

Teaching though, especially HH? Why not? You might need an accommodation, or workaround, but sure. Also, again, where. Galludet likely hires people with just MAs as assistant/associate profs.

However, there are a million other jobs if you're just looking for a job. Office work, retail positions, etc., etc, etc. I don't know if there's a reason besides hearing loss that you mean when you said you can't perform many job-related tasks, but all the Deaf people I know have jobs, so just being HH or deaf (or Deaf) doesn't really stop you from performing job tasks unless your job is, I dunno, eavesdropping on people you can't see?
 
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Any sort of work where you are in a position to observe, and talk, and overhear. I've often thought that a bus conductor would be a great job for a writer, but most have been phased out in the UK now. How about working as a train guard? Or working retail?
 

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I have been thinking of doing an "ESOL" (English for Speakers of Other Languages) qualification as a way of meeting diverse groups of people whilst also doing something helpful - is there anything similar that you could do? My mother (who describes* herself as profoundly deaf) learned elementary signing and lip-reading but ended up going back to teach the course.



*or, rather bizarrely, used to. She is 93 and has just been fitted with a hearing aid that means her hearing is better than at any time in my life, she can just about cope with "normal" conversation as long as nobody speaks to quickly or loudly.
 

sohalt

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My jobs so far

Academia: Well, I certainly spent a lot of time daydreaming about future novels while procrastinating on the dissertation, but getting any actual writing done? Forget about it. Eventually, I decided that if I was going to torture myself about _not_ writing anything, I might as well torture myself about _not_writing a novel rather than my bloody diss, and quit. Miserable affair, if you have any problem with self-management whatsoever.

Teaching: A job I found meaningful, and sometimes fun even, but also intensly exhausting. Left me no energy for writing at all. Then again, I didn't stick with it long enough to assemble my treasure trove of sure fire lesson plans and teaching materials that would reliably work for me - I imagine once you have that, it gets easier.

Writing and teaching seems a popular combination, and I personally know some people who make it work. The most stressful aspect for me was classroom-management - you could avoid that by going into tutoring. I know someone who makes a decent living tutoring in maths over skype. (I ultimately didn't choose that route, because it still means being essentially self-employed, and I don't have the necessary hustle. Really depends on what you hate more - office politics or self-marketing.)

9-5 office job: I'm still not a terrible productive writer, but I've certainly written more than in previous years. The lovely thing is that I can leave the office and stop thinking about work. I've never had that before with any of my previous jobs. I want to hold on to this as long as I can.

But this is all from the perspective of someone who likes to see her biggest obstacle in finding the time and peace of mind to write. This doesn't seem your problem at all. (I'm quite impressed by your output). Am I right that it's rather the lack of intellectual stimulation that bothers you about your current job? Or maybe it's just mentally taxing enough to eat energy resources for writing, while still being so mind-numbing as to kill creativity? But is it really the nature of the tasks, or more the entire work environment?

I mean, I see pretty clearly that I can only stand my current job, because I mostly like my colleagues, get on well with my boss, and don't need to waste much energy on office politics. I suspect that the people you work with can have a way greater impact on your job satisfaction than the actual job description.

Eg. A friend is a musician who earns his living as a waiter/bartender. He loved it for a while; his place of work was like a second home to him, his colleagues like family. But then his workplace rebranded itself, the entire culture around it changed - to be more in line with the general standards and practices in the industry. Turns out my friend liked the job only in that very specific environment that could exist only for a short moment in time and is unlikely to be replicated anywhere else. Now he's desperately trying to jump tracks, but it's not easy with that kind of C.V. He would love my bog-standard office job.

Another friend is a freelance journalist/writer/private scholar who supplements her income as a wardrobe lady at her beloved theater. No one else I know talks with so much enthusiasm about her bread job.
 
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Theodore Koukouvitis

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If you love writing and write so much, why not write stuff for others? Freelance writing will easily get you those $1100 a month with less than 20 hours each week, and that's only the beginning.

There are tons of get-rich-quick scams you'll have to avoid, and it takes a while to figure out how to search for jobs and make your first sale, but the jobs are nearly limitless and the pay can be good if you land a good contract or build a large enough portfolio for serious businesspeople to select you.

If you're interested, feel free to PM me and I'll give you a few pointers.
 

Albdantesque

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Thanks everyone for your replies. Maybe, when I will be 70 I will see money coming from writing.... but 35 years in advance I have to see how I may keep writing without being paid.

I will definitely give a try to colleges for the deaf, but it seems that they have more requirements for teaching than community colleges... because the first are supposed to educate people with special needs. At Gallaudet if you don't learn ASL in 5 years you get fired. Apart from English, I speak already 3 languages and I am wondering the effects of spending 5 more years in learning ASL. Anyway, I might give it a try by December.

Some people have written in two languages at the same time, but at this moment I think it would be better for my writing skills to focus only in one language (Albanian) and, if possible, write a few philosophical essays in English just for my resume. Spending my life as an emigrant, I am afraid that I am not perfect in any of the languages I know --this is why it is better to keep focusing in my native language.

Thank you again for your replies. Retail position sounds good --I may give it a try. I hope, also, to get some help from the human resources of my current employer, though I don't know how to present to them the reason why I am not satisfied with my position --it might sound strange if I tell them I don't want to work too much lol

Some PHD programs give some good fellowships, but I am afraid that 4 years in a PHD program will kill anything creative in me. I need advice on this option also: should a deaf writer pursue a PHD in philosophy or Political Science? Are there any hopes to retain your writing skills after you have given your soul and brain to professors for 4 to 6 years in a row?
 
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Some PHD programs give some good fellowships, but I am afraid that 4 years in a PHD program will kill anything creative in me. I need advice on this option also: should a deaf writer pursue a PHD in philosophy or Political Science? Are there any hopes to retain your writing skills after you have given your soul and brain to professors for 4 to 6 years in a row?

Yes.

Also if you are a professor and have given same to students.
 

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Now, I am wondering which jobs would be great in my case? I need something that pays me without wasting my brain & sight with things that I am not interested at all or, at least, a job where I can make enough money (1100$ a month) with working just 20 hours a week.
I don't have experience with a hearing disability so can't comment on that.

Jobs that pay the FTE equivalent of $26K should not require an unsurmountable level of experience or education, so you likely have a wide variety of areas to choose from. As for a job that will not waste your brain etc, that is really, really dependent on the individual. Some writers like jobs that provide them with lots of busy, interpersonal interactions that are 'grist for the mill'. Others like mindless jobs that allow their brains to wander away into story-land while their hands perform repetitive tasks. Others still like jobs with a lot of down-time where they can write whenever they're not answering the phone or looking at the security camera.

Thank your for your support!

If you want to learn how to deal with your archenemy, look at the way writers treat each other.
Kind of a weird sig line for someone who is asking for, and receiving, free advice and help from other writers.
 

Little Anonymous Me

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For a writer, I think teaching, bartending and reception would be great jobs


Teaching is not a 'writer friendly'* job, at least not unless you've been teaching the same subject and grade level for multiple school years. Disclaimer: I love my job. Absolutely. But it is mentally and emotionally exhausting as well as all consuming. There is so much work that you take home with you on a nearly daily basis. Unless you plan to be prolific over break periods, don't go in assuming you will have enough time or energy to do it after spending all day with the kiddos. I'm sure some people out there do have that energy, but they are the exception, not the rule.



*I suppose nearly all jobs are writer friendly, depending on the individual....
 

Albdantesque

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But this is all from the perspective of someone who likes to see her biggest obstacle in finding the time and peace of mind to write. This doesn't seem your problem at all. (I'm quite impressed by your output). Am I right that it's rather the lack of intellectual stimulation that bothers you about your current job? Or maybe it's just mentally taxing enough to eat energy resources for writing, while still being so mind-numbing as to kill creativity? But is it really the nature of the tasks, or more the entire work environment?

Let me be frank: I was a cleaner 1 year ago and I simply loved it, from 6 hours I worked 3 hours and the the other hours I used to study. In that job I wrote 2 novels, one play, and finished all the courses toward my second (or third) MA. At a point I come up with two root canals and with broken hearing aids. I needed 7K at least and the cleaning position did not give me any insurance. So what I do? I apply with government. Within 2 months I get hired (they said I was very qualified lol) and within 5 months I get hearing aids (paid 15 hundreds instead of 4k) and one root canal fixed --I am working on the second one. I am very grateful to my new employer, colleagues, boss, etc, due to the benefits and good working environment. But I come up with a new problem: I can't finish my thesis for the second (or third) MA that I am writing on Kant. I know that Kant is very hard for everyone, but I believe a job that keeps you in front of a pc to 5PM makes things much worse than they were supposed to be. This is the situation and what bothers me mostly is to have to stick my eyes in a pc for 8 hours a day and after to go home and stick my eyes on my other pc again. Maybe in a different situation this job would have been the best for me, but I do feel tired working on two pc every day and trying to make sense of Kantian ethics :) Anyway, I do see that different writing projects have a different level of difficulty... If I was not working on Kant now, MAYBE it would not be so hard for me to write short stories and keep working at the same time...
 
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Life, career, financial security, family, health, hobbies....everyone has their own priorities. Some people find that writing fiction is the perfect antidote to a day job of writing non-fiction; others find that a job which entails writing sucks out of them the desire to write anything for fun. If your current system/job isn't working for you and satisfying your priorities, then by all means make changes.
 

Albdantesque

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Life, career, financial security, family, health, hobbies....everyone has their own priorities. Some people find that writing fiction is the perfect antidote to a day job of writing non-fiction; others find that a job which entails writing sucks out of them the desire to write anything for fun. If your current system/job isn't working for you and satisfying your priorities, then by all means make changes.

I agree. I used to see my janitorial position as good for me, till health and economic issues made me change mind. Now I have to find a way of balancing aspirations with priorities, as you say, and take the right step.
 

rwm4768

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Fantasy writer Brandon Sanderson took a job as a night clerk at a hotel. Very few guests came to the desk, and it gave him time to write quite a few books while at work.
 

Albdantesque

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Fantasy writer Brandon Sanderson took a job as a night clerk at a hotel. Very few guests came to the desk, and it gave him time to write quite a few books while at work.

I was a night receptionist when I was a college student. Good money and a lot of time to study. I just had started losing my hearing, otherwise I would have been doing that job till this day :) Great job for hearing & responsible writers.

Many bad things happen in hotels/buildings at night, and night receptionists may have to deal with the situation without anyone to help. In the hotel were I worked I found at 3AM the electric generator into flames. It was the first time that I was scared so much for the lives of others, not for my own. Five hundreds tourists with kids were sleeping in the hotel where I worked. Thank God help arrived in time and none got injured.
 
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frimble3

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If you liked the janitorial work, are there any of the large cleaning companies that offer health benefits?
 

cornflake

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Thanks everyone for your replies. Maybe, when I will be 70 I will see money coming from writing.... but 35 years in advance I have to see how I may keep writing without being paid.

I will definitely give a try to colleges for the deaf, but it seems that they have more requirements for teaching than community colleges... because the first are supposed to educate people with special needs. At Gallaudet if you don't learn ASL in 5 years you get fired. Apart from English, I speak already 3 languages and I am wondering the effects of spending 5 more years in learning ASL. Anyway, I might give it a try by December.

Some people have written in two languages at the same time, but at this moment I think it would be better for my writing skills to focus only in one language (Albanian) and, if possible, write a few philosophical essays in English just for my resume. Spending my life as an emigrant, I am afraid that I am not perfect in any of the languages I know --this is why it is better to keep focusing in my native language.

Thank you again for your replies. Retail position sounds good --I may give it a try. I hope, also, to get some help from the human resources of my current employer, though I don't know how to present to them the reason why I am not satisfied with my position --it might sound strange if I tell them I don't want to work too much lol

Some PHD programs give some good fellowships, but I am afraid that 4 years in a PHD program will kill anything creative in me. I need advice on this option also: should a deaf writer pursue a PHD in philosophy or Political Science? Are there any hopes to retain your writing skills after you have given your soul and brain to professors for 4 to 6 years in a row?

Sorry, I assumed you knew ASL already. I wouldn't actually apply at a Deaf school, or Galludet, without being fluent, or at least decently conversant in ASL -- the special need of most Deaf students is that they have an interpreter for classes, thus Deaf schools generally require teachers sign. It's not really more of a special need than knowing Korean if you applied to teach at a school for students whose primary language was Korean. I didn't know Galludet accepted professors who don't sign, but it'd seem like that wouldn't be a better fit than a hearing school, especially as you're deaf/HH and don't sign.

I have no idea what being deaf would have to do with choosing philosophy or poli sci, but yeah, plenty of writers have advanced degrees, or are themselves professors. Many here on AW in fact.
 
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Albdantesque

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If you liked the janitorial work, are there any of the large cleaning companies that offer health benefits?

In NYC you probably have to pay mafia to become a janitor with all benefits :) Some janitors in NYC get benefits and 27$ an hour, but they are only the 5% of the janitors. The rule usually is to hire the janitor with 14$ without benefits and fire him after 6 months (so he will not join a union), hire him again after a year and fire him again after 1.5 year. The janitors usually have two positions, so when they get fired from one employer they get hired from the other --they do this every 6 months. By the way, the companies label these hiring/firing practices with the term: "temporary contracts".

Here upstate, you get just 10$ an hour with a few benefits, if you work full time. But again it is unfair to call those provisions benefits when they are subtracted from the janitor's scanty paycheck.

To answer your question: it is more easy for me to become a (deaf) professor in NY than a janitor with decent salary and full benefits.
 
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indianroads

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Computer programmer.

Programming requires clarity of though, problem solving, and the ability to cut out the unnecessary bull shit.
You will discover that programs are like stories. They have plots, characters in the form of data bases, action, and a clear ending.
And it used to pay well.
 

neandermagnon

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From personal experience, teaching is way too exhausting for me to be compatible with being a writer. And with teaching you take home so much planning and marking you don't get time to write. Or do anything else, and you end up thinking of nothing else but what you're going to teach etc the next day. I found that from a few days before the start of one term, until the very last day of that term, I'm being a teacher without much time off. Even when I have physical time off, I'm too exhausted to do more than watch TV, and I'm mentally planning lessons. It's like the working day ends when you finally get to go home on the last day of term and you spend your holidays dreading the start of the next term... not because you don't enjoy the job, but just because you aren't sure if you can handle that amount of hard work all over again. This is speaking as someone who enjoyed very much being in the classroom with the kids, teaching and planning lessons (marking, not so much... but I probably wouldn't have hated it if I hadn't had to do so damn much of it, and hadn't had to say to my own kids "sorry I can't help you with your homework, got marking to do" - i.e. I can't help you with your homework because I'm marking some other kids' homework.) IMO teaching is not compatible with having any kind of life outside of teaching. And the long holidays don't make up for it.

Working with demanding and/or difficulty people all day every day is mentally exhausing, and mental exhaustion is not compatible with doing lots of writing in the evening. The more demanding the day job, the less energy you're going to have for writing in the evening. And a 20 hr teaching job won't mean you only work 20hrs. You'll probably end up working 40hrs.

My day job is for a mortgage company. It sounds bloody boring but it's not. It's demanding enough that I'm not bored, yet straight forward enough that I'm not tired at the end of the day. My boss and colleagues are a great bunch of people and it's a relaxing, mostly stress-free atmosphere (apart from occasional phone calls to stroppy mortgage brokers) and we generally have a laugh, whilst also working hard.

The biggest benefit to me for this job is it's strictly 9-5 as in everyone just switches off their computers and goes home at 5pm. I've occasionally stayed an extra 15 mins to finish something before going home and my boss has been out of the door before me. I don't have to think about work at all until I switch my computer on the next morning, apart from remembering to bring my ID badge to work (it's also an electronic key). This frees up my mind for having a life outside of work, i.e. being a parent and getting on with writing in the evenings. I'm also not exhausted from my day's work. I go home looking forward to the evening. And I do some of the mental work of writing (I'm a "pantser" so I'll be planning the scene I'm writing in my head) driving to and from work and in my lunch hour.

I've heard other writers say that manual work is quite good, because your mind is freed up to do the mental planning part of writing, so you get home from work and it's all there ready to be written down. Of course, how well this works for an individual writer depends on how the individual writes. The kind of job where you have to sit around doing nothing (not many of those around these days though) means you can do actual writing while you're sitting around - but most office environments nowadays will find some other work for them to do in the meantime.
 
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JCornelius

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Hello,

I do not see any money coming from writing in my native language (and I do not see myself writing fiction in English). /.../

The only opinion I can reasonably give is on this: why so sure? It'll take more effort to quadruple-check every sentence, but in the end the payoff might be better.

There's a solid tradition of Eastern Europeans learning English as adults and then either reinventing it, as Joseph Conrad and Vladimir Nabokov did, or at least using it adequately, as in the case of Soviet immigrant Ayn Rand. Or, for that matter, Isaac Asimov.

Making some sort of name in English, at least with a few magazines, should definitely help in raising your stock back in Albania when presenting The Great Albanian Novel. Everyone knows The Great Greek Novel (Zorba the Greek), and The Great Czechoslovakian Novel (The Unbearable Lightness of Being), and The Great Norwegian Novel (Hunger), The Great Japanese Novel (Norwegian Wood), The Great Afghan Novel (The Kite Runner), The Great Nigerian Novel (Things Fall Apart), The Great Colombian Novel (One Hundred Years of Solitude)... There's also the Serb writer Milorad Pavic, the Bulgarian Georgi Gospodinov, and various others.
Or, in the sphere of genre fiction, where would we be without The Great Swedish Thriller (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo), or The Great Ukrainian Fantasy of Henry Lion Oldie? So this becoming Big in Albania and then Big in the World thing is not necessarily a pipe dream.

Another way to go is the "fish out of water narrative"--an Albanian experience in NY, fictionalized or not. And again, a few stories in local mags as legitimization will totally help. Deconstructing written English and reconstructing it to fit your writerly needs shouldn't be impossible. It's a wonderful and vibrant language but hardly rocket science. Certainly a rudimentary enough system of grammatical cases, unlike the Russian one, for example.
There's even no "plural thou" to signify respect. Most polite languages have a singular and a plural "you", Chinese has three forms (the 3rd one is a singular "polite thou" which in other languages is played by the "plural thou"), while English...is super pragmatic :)

...And concerning jobs, my gut reaction is always: "Stay with the one that helps pay for root canals". Because with age, this will happen more often, no less often. And what's the rush, anyway? Publishing one solid story a year is better than quickly writing twenty that remain unpublished.

There comes a time in our youth when we have to admit that no we can't boink everyone in the world. And there comes a time in our adulthood when we realize that no we can't read all the books in the world, or write all our ideas, and that's fine. We write our best ideas the best way we can and that's that.

Stay with the solid career, write on the side. Publish a short story every few months, slowly gather reputation points, and then during some longer holiday--draft the badass novel. Then, after the holiday, slowly edit it during windows of opportunity, and so on.

Sorry if I don't sound romantic, but I'm increasingly pragmatic about life. And yet my enjoyment of it only grows. It's not a bad path.
 
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veinglory

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One note, having a PhD does not = being a professor. Average time between the two is 7-8 years, and that is for people who do get on the tenure track. For me it was 9 years before I got a tenure track offer. And in my experience being a post-doc is not the dream job for a writer, unless you find low wages, low status, and no job security really motivating. And throughout the whole process what you are meant to be writing is peer-reviewed papers.

I quit academia for a 9-5 office job, and for me it was 100% the right decision on all fronts.
 
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Albdantesque

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The only opinion I can reasonably give is on this: why so sure? It'll take more effort to quadruple-check every sentence, but in the end the payoff might be better.

There's a solid tradition of Eastern Europeans learning English as adults and then either reinventing it, as Joseph Conrad and Vladimir Nabokov did, or at least using it adequately, as in the case of Soviet immigrant Ayn Rand. Or, for that matter, Isaac Asimov.

Making some sort of name in English, at least with a few magazines, should definitely help in raising your stock back in Albania when presenting The Great Albanian Novel. Everyone knows The Great Greek Novel (Zorba the Greek), and The Great Czechoslovakian Novel (The Unbearable Lightness of Being), and The Great Norwegian Novel (Hunger), The Great Japanese Novel (Norwegian Wood), The Great Afghan Novel (The Kite Runner), The Great Nigerian Novel (Things Fall Apart), The Great Colombian Novel (One Hundred Years of Solitude)... There's also the Serb writer Milorad Pavic, the Bulgarian Georgi Gospodinov, and various others.
Or, in the sphere of genre fiction, where would we be without The Great Swedish Thriller (The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo), or The Great Ukrainian Fantasy of Henry Lion Oldie? So this becoming Big in Albania and then Big in the World thing is not necessarily a pipe dream.

Another way to go is the "fish out of water narrative"--an Albanian experience in NY, fictionalized or not. And again, a few stories in local mags as legitimization will totally help. Deconstructing written English and reconstructing it to fit your writerly needs shouldn't be impossible. It's a wonderful and vibrant language but hardly rocket science. Certainly a rudimentary enough system of grammatical cases, unlike the Russian one, for example.
There's even no "plural thou" to signify respect. Most polite languages have a singular and a plural "you", Chinese has three forms (the 3rd one is a singular "polite thou" which in other languages is played by the "plural thou"), while English...is super pragmatic :)

...And concerning jobs, my gut reaction is always: "Stay with the one that helps pay for root canals". Because with age, this will happen more often, no less often. And what's the rush, anyway? Publishing one solid story a year is better than quickly writing twenty that remain unpublished.

There comes a time in our youth when we have to admit that no we can't boink everyone in the world. And there comes a time in our adulthood when we realize that no we can't read all the books in the world, or write all our ideas, and that's fine. We write our best ideas the best way we can and that's that.

Stay with the solid career, write on the side. Publish a short story every few months, slowly gather reputation points, and then during some longer holiday--draft the badass novel. Then, after the holiday, slowly edit it during windows of opportunity, and so on.

Sorry if I don't sound romantic, but I'm increasingly pragmatic about life. And yet my enjoyment of it only grows. It's not a bad path.

We have already the great Albanian Chronicle in Stone and Broken April...

Let me put the matter this way: my hit novel will need 5 years to write it (as I have it in my mind)? What I eat these five years and the other years till the novel bring me money from international markets? This is how many writers think: how I will be fed till the distant moment when my book is perfectly completed and becomes a hit? Can I make it perfect with so many side duties?

I did not say to quit working, I asked how to make things work better for me :)
 

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To answer your question: it is more easy for me to become a (deaf) professor in NY than a janitor with decent salary and full benefits.
Are you geographically mobile? If you are not tied to NYC, or in fact to the USA, that may open up your options.
 

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My advice is: Until you are earning sufficient money from your writing that it materially affects your budget, consider writing a hobby. Earning a living as a writer is a laudable, but impractical, goal, as 99.9% of aspiring novelists never get there.

As Veinglory said, PhD does not necessarily equate to Professor Earning Big Bucks. Getting the PhD and, finally, an academic position is a long, poorly paid slog, and the job at the end generaly entails working 80 hours a week.
 
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