Trump doesn't know why the Civil War happened but thinks Jackson (who was dead) was angry about it

shootseven

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Trump: "He [Andrew Jackson] was really angry that he saw what was happening with regard to the Civil War, he said, 'There's no reason for this.'" Hmm, Jackson, who was dead long before the Civil War, was angry about it?


"People don't realize, you know, the Civil War, if you think about it, why? People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why could that one not have been worked out?" People don't ask that question? Good grief, it's still being debated over 150 years later. And to answer the "why" question: slavery.
This guy really needs to stop talking about things he knows nothing about.
 

Introversion

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Trump-as-President can exist only because so many American voters are equally, profoundly, ignorant of science, history, world events, politics; you-name-it.

In many ways, sadly, he really is the President we deserve.
 

cornflake

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Has anyone asked Frederick Douglass to weigh in?
 

Twick

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It really pains me to see someone reveal themselves as so totally empty-headed. So uninformed about the world around them. In fiction, I'd laugh at Trumpisms, but consider them over-the-top.

That he has supporters who aren't burying their heads in their hands right now going "what have we done?" also boggles me. One person this daft could exist, but to have a legion of supporters who hear his drivel and go "Yeah! That's who we want running things!"? It's inconceivable, and yet true.

I have somehow stepped into a bad political parody, and it seems half the people in it don't notice, while the rest are struggling to decide whether to laugh or cry.
 

cornflake

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I was just saying to someone that it's so stunning that he's seventy years old, lives obviously in a bubble of his own desire and making but did attend good schools and spend his life in a very large, very diverse, international city, yet is so blindly ignorant and egotistical or whatever Dunning-Kruger thing this is that he can't seem to ever, ever conceive that things he doesn't know are known by other people, or that his areas of ignorance, as vast as they are, are not shared by everyone.

No one asks why the Civil War happened.

No one knew health care was complicated.

No one knew North Korea was complicated.

No one knew.... no one thought...

I don't know if it's a tic to comfort himself, like to reassure himself that he's not ignorant, by saying no one knows, or if he genuinely believes either that no one does, or that these things are so complicated no one could, or that no one could be or is interested (which seems impossible on its face -- he debated Hillary; he knows people have college majors and write books about stuff. He has to, on some level, know people know things he does not -- he's said he can 'understand' things very quickly, which presupposes he doesn't know them already. Or he's so dumb this level of thinking about any of this is beyond him and then I don't know where it lies. I dunno. It confuses me.
 

Twick

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Actually, I think Trump has a deep insecurity about his intelligence. No one who *thinks* they're smart goes around saying "You know, I'm really smart, right?" But he doesn't address it by trying to actually learn anything. Instead, he's built a defense mechanism where if he doesn't know it, it ain't known.

The really dangerous part about this is he's very resistant to intellectual challenge. "Mr. President, your position on this doesn't take into account factors X, Y, and Z" sounds to him "Donny, you're DUMB! We're smarter than you, nyah nyah nyah!" This leads him to counterattack the information, rather than going "hmm, maybe I should learn more about X, Y and Z."
 

cornflake

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Just by the way, Trump also said that whole Constitution/separation of powers thing we've got going on? He''s over it. To wit:

Trump denounced the constitutional system of checks and balances as “archaic.”
“It’s a very rough system. It’s an archaic system,” Trump said. “It’s really a bad thing for the country.”

aaaand when asked about his claims Obama "wiretapped" him:

After asking whether Trump stood by his claim, the president replied “I don’t stand by anything. I just — you can take it the way you want."

I enjoy trying to imagine the years-long, hearings-filled, impeachment-threat-packed shitstorm that would have resulted had Obama ever, in any circumstance, even in a moment of jest, uttered "I don't stand by anything," in public, nevermind to s fucking reporter on the record.

What is happening?
 

Alpha Echo

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I don't know. I really don't.

There's also this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4462508/Trump-President-spends-1-5-million-run-new-ad.html

I know that's Daily Mail, but I've actually seen the commercial. It's sickening. It's propaganda the likes of which we haven't seen since the Red Scare, and that terrifies me.

Here, you can watch the ad. If you want, which I can’t imagine why you’d want to.

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/america-winning-again-trump-releases-132248789.html
 

Roxxsmom

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It's not so much the ignorance that stuns me. Everyone has gaps in their knowledge or things they missed or have forgotten when they were back in school about science and history (though some seem to have gaping chasms, not merely gaps). It's the proud confidence with which this ignorance is displayed. That and the dumb defiance that's exhibited when someone calls an offending person on it.

It isn't just Trump, though he's certainly the most prominent and influential person who is doing so these days. It's all over the web, but even outside of the internet, I've run across it among students and among family. Everyone says stupid or ignorant things sometimes, but FFS, it takes five minutes to google "causes of American Civil War" before you tweet about it. And he's got a picture of Andrew Jackson up in the oval office, doesn't he? Hasn't he ever seen one of those little plaques that shows the dates when his idol was alive and noted the lack of overlap between those dates and the US Civil War?

I really, really hope Trump's presidency represents a "bug" or hiccup (or maybe a bad case of norovirus might be a better metaphor) in the American political system, but I'm very worried that it might be the beginning of a new normal.
 
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cornflake

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There was a guy on CNN a bit ago who runs the Andrew Jackson house/museum whatever, and apparently gave Trump some kind of tour, a visit during which Trump laid a wreath, so I presume it was an anniversary of some sort (was doing worky things and not paying total attention).

In the interview in the OP, Trump also said Jackson had "a big heart." Andrew Jackson. Andrew "Trail of Tears" Jackson. Andrew "Force Bill" Jackson. Andrew "Massive Fucking Slaveholder" Jackson. Andrew Jackson, the guy notorious for his bad temper, pissy attitude, and general lack of humour. Big-hearted dude.

So apparently, at some point in the recent past, Trump was at an entire museum-ish place, dedicated to this man, given a tour by someone who presumably knows kind of everything about Jackson, and Trump came away thinking Jackson had a big heart and was angry about the Civil War, which he died close to two decades before.

Yeah.
 
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Roxxsmom

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Trump said Jackson had "a big heart." Andrew Jackson. Andrew "Trail of Tears" Jackson. Andrew "Force Bill" Jackson. Andrew "Massive Fucking Slaveholder" Jackson. Andrew Jackson, the guy notorious for his bad temper, pissy attitude, and general lack of humour. Big-hearted dude.

Yeah.

Exactly why Trump (and many of his followers) idolize him, I think.

Jackson was also known for his anti intellectualism and populism.

As awful as Jackson was, though, Trump is no Jackson. And maybe I'm cynical, but I don't think trump harbors even a shred of concern for the common man (let alone common woman) or egalitarianism. The policies he's trying to ram through, whether it's the "revamp" of the ACA, or his tax plan, or his proposed gutting of environmental protections, are all about making things better for the rich at the expense of the poor and middle classes.

But the (white) working classes voted for him en masse. There are days when I feel like throwing my hands up and saying, "Fine. You guys have the president of your dreams. I hope you enjoy getting poorer and sicker while the rich get richer."

Except the rest of us have to live here too.
 

cornflake

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I would get Trump -- and his followers -- idolizing Jackson. It makes sense on a number of levels to me.

It doesn't make sense to me to call Jackson "big-hearted" unless you know nothing at all about him.
 

Cindyt

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regdog

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There is no bottom to the abyss of stupid
 
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Twick

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Just by the way, Trump also said that whole Constitution/separation of powers thing we've got going on? He''s over it. ...

What is happening?

You know, the most devoted of his followers have, for years, proclaimed their ultimate faith in the Constitution. How changing one bit of it (particularly the 2nd Amendment) was heresy. And yet Trump treats it like an inconvenience to doing things his way? "Fine by us!" they chorus.
 

Mclesh

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I have nothing to add except my head repeatedly hitting my desk, and a couple of quotations that seem appropriate for our ignorant, bombastic POTUS:

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - Santayana

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire
 

ElaineA

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This guy really needs to stop talking about things he knows nothing about.

But that would leave him with nothing to say

I enjoy trying to imagine the years-long, hearings-filled, impeachment-threat-packed shitstorm that would have resulted had Obama ever, in any circumstance, even in a moment of jest, uttered "I don't stand by anything," in public, nevermind to s fucking reporter on the record.

I enjoy trying to imagine it, too, because it's all we have. No hearings, just soft-focus dreams.
 

frimble3

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Bet I know why Trump calls Andrew Jackson 'big hearted' - after he got rid of those Cherokee, ol'Andy gave that land to white people. Possibly property developers, too. Mighty big of him.:sarcasm

Besides, I'll guess that having his face on money is a dream of Trump's (but not a small denomination - a big one, a really yuuge amount), and Andrew Jackson was the first time he confronted the idea that that particular 'honour' could be taken away, as well.
 
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shootseven

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I have nothing to add except my head repeatedly hitting my desk, and a couple of quotations that seem appropriate for our ignorant, bombastic POTUS:

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it" - Santayana

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" - Voltaire

When Trump tweets it it'll look more like this: "Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to do it again" - Carlos Santana.
 

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Trump cleared it all up with yesterday's tweet:

President Andrew Jackson, who died 16 years before the Civil War started, saw it coming and was angry. Would never have let it happen!

You can't make this shit up. One big difference between real life and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.