Beta Project 2017

Sage · May 29, 2017

Well, it's been a few days so the beta request totals have changed

As to your question, CJ, for me the answer is: As many as it takes to figure out what's a note based on personal taste and what's a note that people are in agreement over. Now, personal taste is not meant to be dismissed out of hand, but when multiple betas say something, it's time to sit up and take notice. On the other hand, too many beta notes can certainly get overwhelming, so there's a balance to be had there. Plus, if you need a second round (or especially for those who are looking for alphas, of which I suggest you only get one or two), it's better not to burn through all the fresh eyes who might be interested in your novel, so having 10 people look at it now will probably limit how many people might be look at a new draft with fresh eyes, if you need them to (not every revision requires this). But another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes betas just can't finish their read/notes for you, so the number you start out with might not reflect the number of notes you end up with.

Just all things to keep in mind.

CJSimone · May 29, 2017

Harlequin said:
it's not a dumb question. I think the answer will vary for every person but is almost always as many as you can get but equally some need more or less, and also a few good ones are probably better than a dozen noncommittal ones.

Sage said:
Well, it's been a few days so the beta request totals have changed

As to your question, CJ, for me the answer is: As many as it takes to figure out what's a note based on personal taste and what's a note that people are in agreement over. Now, personal taste is not meant to be dismissed out of hand, but when multiple betas say something, it's time to sit up and take notice. On the other hand, too many beta notes can certainly get overwhelming, so there's a balance to be had there. Plus, if you need a second round (or especially for those who are looking for alphas, of which I suggest you only get one or two), it's better not to burn through all the fresh eyes who might be interested in your novel, so having 10 people look at it now will probably limit how many people might be look at a new draft with fresh eyes, if you need them to (not every revision requires this). But another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes betas just can't finish their read/notes for you, so the number you start out with might not reflect the number of notes you end up with.

Just all things to keep in mind.

Thank you, Harlequin and Sage. A lot of good things to consider!

Sage · May 29, 2017

Clearly everyone had the day off but me, and you all spent it on crits and poring over the entries for requests, so my inbox was quite exciting when I got home :snoopy:

DarienW · May 29, 2017

Great news, Sage! We're almost there! Good luck everyone!

Unimportant · May 29, 2017

Sage said:
Well, it's been a few days so the beta request totals have changed

As to your question, CJ, for me the answer is: As many as it takes to figure out what's a note based on personal taste and what's a note that people are in agreement over. Now, personal taste is not meant to be dismissed out of hand, but when multiple betas say something, it's time to sit up and take notice. On the other hand, too many beta notes can certainly get overwhelming, so there's a balance to be had there. Plus, if you need a second round (or especially for those who are looking for alphas, of which I suggest you only get one or two), it's better not to burn through all the fresh eyes who might be interested in your novel, so having 10 people look at it now will probably limit how many people might be look at a new draft with fresh eyes, if you need them to (not every revision requires this). But another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes betas just can't finish their read/notes for you, so the number you start out with might not reflect the number of notes you end up with.

Just all things to keep in mind.

And it depends on who your betas are. If you have six people who all say 'I loved it! So much fun!" even though the text is riddled with grammatical errors, that's too few betas. If you have two people who are superb editors at all levels and comment usefully and comprehensively on characterisation, pacing, plot, setting, and prose, that's sufficient.

JJ Litke · May 29, 2017

Sage said:
Clearly everyone had the day off but me, and you all spent it on crits and poring over the entries for requests, so my inbox was quite exciting when I got home

Shit, I need to catch up.

Sage · May 29, 2017

One dedicated person has done 28 critiques, and it's not me. 2 other people (still not me...yet) have done double digits. :e2flowers

Two awesome newbies, post count still in the single digits, have volunteered their time on crits and beta requests too :LilLove:

Unimportant · May 29, 2017

Sage said:
One dedicated person has done 28 critiques, and it's not me.

Ain't me, either. I think I managed all of three before stupid day-job life intervened

Unimportant · May 29, 2017

Adding ::hangs head in shame:: my PM box is now not overly full and can accept messages.

DancingMaenid · May 29, 2017

My three-day weekend has zoomed by. Still working on finishing up some critiques. I know we can post them after June 1, too, but I really wanted to submit more before reveals, too! I also still need to decide what to send beta requests for. I don't have time to commit to all the entries I like, sadly.

Clairels · May 29, 2017

Sage said:
One dedicated person has done 28 critiques, and it's not me. 2 other people (still not me...yet) have done double digits.

Two awesome newbies, post count still in the single digits, have volunteered their time on crits and beta requests too

And here I was all pleased with myself because I did like 7. Way to make a critter feel inadequate. :tongue

CJSimone · May 30, 2017

DarienW said:
Great news, Sage! We're almost there! Good luck everyone!

You too, DarienW!

Unimportant said:
And it depends on who your betas are. If you have six people who all say 'I loved it! So much fun!" even though the text is riddled with grammatical errors, that's too few betas. If you have two people who are superb editors at all levels and comment usefully and comprehensively on characterisation, pacing, plot, setting, and prose, that's sufficient.

This is a great point, Unimportant, thank you!

Clairels said:
And here I was all pleased with myself because I did like 7. Way to make a critter feel inadequate.

I was thinking I'll just do more critiques after as myself since it didn't change my critiques any for them to be anonymous, but now I'm thinking maybe it's better when people don't know who's giving the critique because then nothing but the critique itself influences how it's taken (plus then we haven't seen the other critiques yet and can be sure we're not influenced by them)... So now I'll have to hurry if I'm going to do it anonymous.

Sage · May 30, 2017

Another cool thing about critting before the critiques are revealed is that any agreement between critters is given slightly more weight because they were blind to what each other said. Sometimes in SYW you can feel like critters are being affected by the crits above them (whether they are or not), and it can be harder to believe that everyone came to the same conclusion on their own. Here if that happens, you have no choice but to believe it.

CoffeeBeans · May 30, 2017

I am the worst in SYW. I tell myself not to look at other crits until I've finished mine. Then I finish mine and I'm dying to see what others think. If we say the same thing, I feel like I'm not adding to the conversation, and if we disagree I start to consider if I see their point... and then waffle about my post again.

Folks who do any extra crits are lovely, but it's not a competition. One, three, or seven, people will be happy to have more feedback!

As always, Sage thank you for all the hard work, and my best wishes for your inbox, which will need quite the vacation when we're done!

Dysnomia · May 30, 2017

I'm also another one who gets influenced by what previous critters said sometimes... It's going to be exciting to see how the crits line up here.

And now that the day the crits will be posted is drawing nearer, I'm starting to get nervous of the war zone that'll be on my entry...

CJSimone · May 30, 2017

Sage said:
Another cool thing about critting before the critiques are revealed is that any agreement between critters is given slightly more weight because they were blind to what each other said. Sometimes in SYW you can feel like critters are being affected by the crits above them (whether they are or not), and it can be harder to believe that everyone came to the same conclusion on their own. Here if that happens, you have no choice but to believe it.

Yep, definitely. I think it's natural at least on some level to be influenced by others' opinions and I've noticed a few times in SYW where everyone's saying one thing, someone says something different, and suddenly people are instead saying that. It's especially noticeable if they're using the same word suddenly. Guess as writers we have to get used to it, though, cuz I've also seen in reviews where someone's like "I first thought this, but after reading this review, I agree this was annoying and I'm changing my rating..." Anonymous is good. I really like your beta project, Sage.

Sage · May 31, 2017

I have a bunch of beta requests that came in today and that haven't been sent out. I probably won't be able to send them until Friday, after the critique reveal, but I'll try not to make you guys wait too long for them.

travelgal · May 31, 2017

Thanks, Sage; you're a gem!

Whoo, I got one! :snoopy:

Maggie Maxwell · Jun 1, 2017

1 day to crits 1 day to crits 1 day to crits! *huffs into a paper bag*

RJDrake · Jun 1, 2017

Sage said:
One dedicated person has done 28 critiques, and it's not me. 2 other people (still not me...yet) have done double digits.

Two awesome newbies, post count still in the single digits, have volunteered their time on crits and beta requests too

Wow! That is real dedication!
I wanted to do so many more crits then the ones assigned but it's been crazy at my work for the last weeks and I just got a new dog so I barely had time to sleep!

sockycat · Jun 1, 2017

Sage, you may have answered this before, but after the entries are posted is it okay if we crit them in their respective thread? I really want to do extra crits but my work has been bananas lately

Sage · Jun 1, 2017

You can absolutely critique after the reveal! You can send to me, or crit right in the thread. Same with making beta requests.

DancingMaenid · Jun 1, 2017

I think I'll be sending/posting some critiques after reveals, too. I wanted to get them done sooner, but this week has been unexpectedly busy (and allergy-filled).

Damoclian · Jun 1, 2017

So, er, I'm having... how you say... trouble with my non-mandatory crits (I hope I did my mando ones right!

): I can't seem to find any flaws in y'all's writing.

Now, I know there are some somewhere, there always are! But like, hawt dayumn you guys are pretty good. (Admittedly I haven't read everyone's snippet yet.) But still... dude! <3

Sage · Jun 1, 2017

Just over an hour to get me your crits in time for the official reveal! Great job, entrants, on all getting me your mandatories on time. We continue with our streak of everyone getting all their crits and requests.

So far (and likely to the end, unless someone's sitting on a bunch of crits to turn in all at once), 6 critters ended up in the double digits. Not all of them were entrants.

Our crit superstar is still dominating the second most crits with her 28 critiques.

We have 265 critiques total at this time. I'll do a count on beta requests later.

Beta Project 2017

Supreme Guessinator

Supreme Guessinator

No COVID yet. Still masking.

People are not wearing enough hats

Supreme Guessinator

No COVID yet. Still masking.

No COVID yet. Still masking.

New kid...seven years ago!

Born at sea

Supreme Guessinator

Drowning in the depthless sea

Supreme Guessinator

Making Einstein cry since 1994

Supreme Guessinator

New kid...seven years ago!

Fragile Bunny

Supreme Guessinator