Tropes you hate and why

Ed_in_Bed

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The substitution of "y" for "i" got to me when there was a background character called Ynys Yronwood. I rolled my eyes at that one.

Hmm, was that in one of the later books? It would have made my eyes roll too. I don't understand it, as GRRM obviously has such a powerful imagination but flounders around with names like a rank amateur.
 

Clairels

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Not sure it's a trope, but this really bugs me: Character names in fantasy novels that are just real names with a single letter changed.

GRRM is a bugger for that - the Game of Thrones novels are full of them.

Eddard / Edward
Joffrey / Jeffrey
Jaime / Jamie
Petyr / Peter
Kevan / Kevin
Gregor / Gregory


It's just lazy.

I've noticed that. :D Thing is, GRRM can come up with some great names when he wants to (Sansa, Daenerys, etc.). But a lot of the time he just phones it in.
 
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jjdebenedictis

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Not sure it's a trope, but this really bugs me: Character names in fantasy novels that are just real names with a single letter changed.

GRRM is a bugger for that - the Game of Thrones novels are full of them.

Eddard / Edward
Joffrey / Jeffrey
Jaime / Jamie
Petyr / Peter
Kevan / Kevin
Gregor / Gregory


It's just lazy.

Oh, eep, I actually really like that!

My rationale is that I find a lot of fantasy names don't register as names to me, which means I end up thinking, "Okay, this collection of letters is which character again?" regularly. For some reason, Lynn Flewelling's character names were often really bad for my brain in this regard.

GRRM's names do register in my brain as names, and that means I do a lot better at remembering who is who.
 

Roxxsmom

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I've noticed that. :D Thing is, GRRM can come up with some great names when he wants to (Sansa, Daenerys, etc.). But a lot of the time he just phones it in.

I think he was trying to make names for characters in a part of his world that felt sort of British or Nothern European-ey feel familiar and similar to names readers from those locales (or the US) would relate to and find easy to remember, while he went for more fanciful names for people from parts of his world that were supposed to be more exotic or formal? You're not the first person I've run across who has been bothered by this, though. One person I know from the UK says that the name "Jon Snow" knocks him out every time, because there was once a meteorologist (aptly enough) on one of their stations with the same name.

It's true that two completely different languages will sometimes independently come up with a name that is phonetically the same, even if they have different origins or meanings, but when there's that much overlap, it feels like there should be a reason or connection between our world and theirs. Especially since some of the names have definite Biblical or Christian roots in a world without that particular book, history or religions.

Having said this, I actually don't pay that much attention to fantasy names as a rule. Before I started talking about these things with other fantasy fans and writers, I rarely noticed it when they felt mixed and matched or failed to conform to some linguistic pattern or rule, as long as I could remember them and got a feel for how to possibly pronounce them. If they feel like an unconnected series of letter that doesn't fall into any kind of pattern I recognize at a subconscious level, at least, I tend to have trouble remembering them, just as I would any random string of letters or numbers.
 

Emermouse

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Not sure it's a trope, but this really bugs me: Character names in fantasy novels that are just real names with a single letter changed.

GRRM is a bugger for that - the Game of Thrones novels are full of them.

Eddard / Edward
Joffrey / Jeffrey
Jaime / Jamie
Petyr / Peter
Kevan / Kevin
Gregor / Gregory


It's just lazy.

I don't mind it too much. So many names have various off-shoots that are basically just the same name with a few letters changed; even in a medieval-style world like Game of Thrones, there would probably be all kinds of variations circulating. Historical records are kind of choked with people with the same name; it's not too surprising that they might be choked with people who have the same name, but only with a few letters altered. It was a while before people started being really creative with baby names. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is your call.

I find it more irritating when they give you a name that's basically just consonants and apostrophes and you're like, "How the heck am I supposed to pronounce this?" Or the kind of inconsistencies seen in the Eragon series, where the ordinary characters have names like Sloan or Elain, but the superspeschul hero has something completely out of tone with established naming conventions, like the titular character himself.

I'm okay with some creativity, but at the same time, there should be some internal consistency to fantasy names, like if they are part of the lower class, they may limit themselves to short, two syllable names, while higher classes give themselves elaborate, elongated ones proclaiming their greatness. You can break said rule by having, using the example I've given, someone from the lower class give their child a long name or someone higher up giving their child a short name, but you better have some reason why said character would do that and not just "Character knew from birth that Baby was going to be the Superspeschul Hero and therefore needed a name that would have him/her stand out from their peers and call attention to this fact."

GRRM is consistent with the names listed. All the names you've listed, at least you can believe they describe characters living together in roughly the same area/culture. From that standpoint, they make sense rather than having one character be named Will, another, Jeyne, and another, aoseitra;owrihjg.

If you're setting a fantasy story in a low-tech or a pseudo-medieval world, then I'm afraid you can only be so creative when it comes to naming conventions. To use GRRM as an example, he does do this somewhat when it comes to the Targaryeans. While there are a lot of Aegons, there are other names, but you can tell they fit the Targaryaen template because they usually have either "ae" in them, like Daneaerys or Rhaegar or Aemon, but sometimes they have the "ys" ending in them as well, like Viserys and or Rhaenys. A nice subtle convention that immediately lets you know, even before you reach the surname, that these are Targaryaens. From there, you have a generally idea of their background/appearance.
 

Roxxsmom

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Re Smurfette: It is very clear the Smurfs have a society like that of ants, bees, and other social insects. The males (both workers and drones) are all waiting for Smurfette to mature, after which a mad mating competition will ensue, and the winner fly off with the Queen to start a new colony.

Which is odd, because generally with eusocial insects (with termites the workers are both sterile males and females), the workers are sterile females. Males (the drones) exist only to mate and die, and fertile females are egg machines, never having adventures (beyond that one mating flight). A condition called haplodiploidity is what drove the intense cooperation between "super sisters." Though one group of mammals, the mole rats, have eusociality of a sort with non breeding males and females both serving as workers. i don't know of any eusocial species where the worker caste is all male.

If they ever make a movie with anthropomorphized ants or bees that gets that little detail right, I'd be all over it. But even cartoon movies about ants and bees seem to inevitably cast the protagonist as male.

We seem to be so wired to think of males as being the Ones Who Really Matter that I wonder if we'll ever get past it trope wise.
 

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When writers (particularly TV writers) put words in their characters' mouths to compliment their own writing. Bonus cringe-points if they use the word "epic."
 

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The 'refusal of the call' part of the hero's journey, especially when they're like "I can lift trains with my pink toe, but I just want to be normal." Scrap that. I can't even read a story written in the formulaic hero archetype trope. Enough is enough.
 

Madkei

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Not sure it's a trope, but this really bugs me: Character names in fantasy novels that are just real names with a single letter changed.

GRRM is a bugger for that - the Game of Thrones novels are full of them.

Eddard / Edward
Joffrey / Jeffrey
Jaime / Jamie
Petyr / Peter
Kevan / Kevin
Gregor / Gregory


It's just lazy.

This bothers me as well. I've actually heard him discuss it in at least one interview. I can't remember exactly what he said, but as one person already touched on, he wanted names from certain regions in history. He wanted the names to give the books a specific feel, and a part of that is having common names. I think you're right though, it gives more of a 'lazy' feel instead. If you're going to create such an intricate world, why not create more awesome names to go with it?
 

melgough

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I have so many, so I'll just go with a few favorites.

[*]Virtually all the females in the main character's world--romantic interest, friends, family members, work colleagues, people at the bar or restaurant he frequents--are at or below a healthy weight. In fact, they're all pretty good with wardrobe and grooming, too. Corollary: in teens on screen, there is no acne.
[/LIST]

Maryn, who could go on and on

This is why I detest virtually all female characters in mainstream media. In my short story, the protagonist is overweight and awkward, and she still got the rock star. ;)
 

Cobalt Jade

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This bothers me as well. I've actually heard him discuss it in at least one interview. I can't remember exactly what he said, but as one person already touched on, he wanted names from certain regions in history. He wanted the names to give the books a specific feel, and a part of that is having common names. I think you're right though, it gives more of a 'lazy' feel instead. If you're going to create such an intricate world, why not create more awesome names to go with it?

This. Plus Joffrey, Gregor, Ned, Jon, and Jaime are perfectly legitimate real-world names. Heh, now that I think about it, was he referencing Kafka with the Gregor?
 

Twick

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I also have many, but the following four take the cake:

1. Losing consciousness (unless the plot absolutely requires it).
2. Dead parents (unless the plot absolutely requires it).
3. Prolonged illness, complete with loss of appetite (until the plot ABSOLUTELY requires it).
4. Beauty equals goodness (no excuse).

But, um, I once had a prolonged illness with loss of appetite. I thought that was sort of went with being bedridden.
 

Keithy

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Just seen a movie with one that grates on me:

Doctor listens to Bach fugue (played on an organ). The implication being that you have to be super-smart to like this sort of music.

I like Bach fugues, but I'm not a doctor. Nor am I a musician.
 

SKStark

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Heroine who is supposed to be liberated and independent, but doesn't do anything active to show this, just complains a lot.

Heroine who is considered "ugly" by her (historical or pseudo-historical fantasy) society because of things that make her conventionally beautiful by modern eyes (being thin, tall, tanned, etc.)

Incest thrown in for shock value (not that it can't be part of a plot, but too often it just looks like the author though "ooh, what taboo can I break today?")

I don't know if you've read it, but after each one of your complaints, I thought, "Outlander!" Except instead of incest, it's rape.

As for my own hated trope: Scientists/experts being blatantly dumb and not following protocol or the scientific method.
 
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Emermouse

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The 'refusal of the call' part of the hero's journey, especially when they're like "I can lift trains with my pink toe, but I just want to be normal." Scrap that. I can't even read a story written in the formulaic hero archetype trope. Enough is enough.

That is a good point. I would love to see more works of fiction where ambition isn't just universally reviled. For once, can we have a hero who, while he/she isn't a complete sociopath, seeks power and wealth because they actively want to improve their life and the lives of friends and family. Some ambition is needed for any heroic character and it'd be nice to have one be in it for more mercenary reasons, and less fuzzy-minded concepts like the greater good.

While Katniss from The Hunger Games isn't a perfect example of this idea, part of what makes her so much more interesting than any generic chosen one, is that initially she gets involved in the Games and later, the rebellion, simply because she wants to keep her family alive. Only later on, does she work towards higher ideals.

Ambition isn't inherently evil and it shouldn't be labeled as evil across the board
 

Devil Ledbetter

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The 'refusal of the call' part of the hero's journey, especially when they're like "I can lift trains with my pink toe, but I just want to be normal." Scrap that. I can't even read a story written in the formulaic hero archetype trope. Enough is enough.
This annoyed me to no end in A Discovery of Witches. The MC is the most powerful witch in the world and hails from a long line of powerful witches, but gosh darn it, she just wants to be a normal college prof and the heck with all these magic powers. Except "normal" here means she's already tenured at Yale in her 30s. Yuh-huh.

Refusal doesn't have to on the part of the hero in the hero's journey. In the first Harry Potter, the refusal is performed by Uncle Vernon Dursley.
 

RJDrake

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Oh, eep, I actually really like that!

My rationale is that I find a lot of fantasy names don't register as names to me, which means I end up thinking, "Okay, this collection of letters is which character again?" regularly. For some reason, Lynn Flewelling's character names were often really bad for my brain in this regard.

GRRM's names do register in my brain as names, and that means I do a lot better at remembering who is who.

I do that all the time too! If there are two characters that have names that are similar I always have a hard time distinguishing them.

Personally, tropes I can't stand are three quite common ones:

-The character that is just so righteous that even if morally something is acceptable they have to go to the police/higher power etc. and report it because "it's the right thing to do".
-As Devil said, characters that are superpowerful and just want to be normal. Why would you? That's just so annoying! (Especially for someone that hates normality.)
-Main character discovers he/she have some kind of magical/supernatural ability they never used and then over the course of fifteen minutes they are able to use it at the at master level
 

Albedo

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-As Devil said, characters that are superpowerful and just want to be normal. Why would you? That's just so annoying! (Especially for someone that hates normality.)
This one so much. Case in point: that one Xmen movie with the oh so emo Angel dude. Like dude, you can fly. And chicks dig dudes with wings. Oooh poor me I wish I was an average bland teenager! Like hell you do, son.

A related SF trope: the physically and intellectually superior robot who inexplicably yearns to be human. Don't do it, ro-bro.
 

sockycat

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-Main character discovers he/she have some kind of magical/supernatural ability they never used and then over the course of fifteen minutes they are able to use it at the at master level

OMG, this is my pet peeve, especially when dealing with fantasy! Like sure, it's awesome that you have power-- but it took me weeks to learn how to ride a bike. Maybe it should take you at least a few DAYS to learn how to control your fabulous ability to manipulate plants/animals/whatever?

An example of a show actually handling this discovery thing really well that I always point to was Katara in Avatar: The Last Airbender. By the end of the show, Katara is arguably one of the most powerful waterbenders...ever. She's kickass. Homegirl can summon and control tidal waves. She can even take down Azula despite the whole lightning thing. But we pretty much have an entire SEASON of her accidentally freezing people, not being able to control her water, not being strong enough, and altogether sucking at mastering her powers. We even see that frustration manifested when she gets pissed that Aang masters water so much faster than her.

I know some people get sick of the *training* aspect, but for me, it's a lot more satisfying when characters are like "WOW, I CAN DO THIS THING- holy shit I suck at this" and they mess up and have to practice and learn and only after they've learned to ride the bike, so to speak, can they become a Powerful Bad Ass.
 

Roxxsmom

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This one so much. Case in point: that one Xmen movie with the oh so emo Angel dude. Like dude, you can fly. And chicks dig dudes with wings. Oooh poor me I wish I was an average bland teenager! Like hell you do, son.

A related SF trope: the physically and intellectually superior robot who inexplicably yearns to be human. Don't do it, ro-bro.

A bit like the character who is immortal, or at least aging much more slowly than most people, who thinks it's a curse. I could see having misgivings after centuries, maybe if they get bored with living and have seen too many loved ones age and die, but no one who isn't actively suicidal would be bummed to find out that they're going to live a lot longer than most people and age much more slowly. And even so, if there's one thing that sucks more than seeing loved ones get old, it's getting old yourself.

Am getting old, and would jump at the opportunity for youth serum.
 

Albedo

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A bit like the character who is immortal, or at least aging much more slowly than most people, who thinks it's a curse. I could see having misgivings after centuries, maybe if they get bored with living and have seen too many loved ones age and die, but no one who isn't actively suicidal would be bummed to find out that they're going to live a lot longer than most people and age much more slowly. And even so, if there's one thing that sucks more than seeing loved ones get old, it's getting old yourself.

Am getting old, and would jump at the opportunity for youth serum.
Ah, the eternally brooding vampire trope. Like, use all that free time to do something constructive, you bunch of bloodsucking sadsacks.
 

RJDrake

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OMG, this is my pet peeve, especially when dealing with fantasy! Like sure, it's awesome that you have power-- but it took me weeks to learn how to ride a bike. Maybe it should take you at least a few DAYS to learn how to control your fabulous ability to manipulate plants/animals/whatever?

An example of a show actually handling this discovery thing really well that I always point to was Katara in Avatar: The Last Airbender. By the end of the show, Katara is arguably one of the most powerful waterbenders...ever. She's kickass. Homegirl can summon and control tidal waves. She can even take down Azula despite the whole lightning thing. But we pretty much have an entire SEASON of her accidentally freezing people, not being able to control her water, not being strong enough, and altogether sucking at mastering her powers. We even see that frustration manifested when she gets pissed that Aang masters water so much faster than her.

I know some people get sick of the *training* aspect, but for me, it's a lot more satisfying when characters are like "WOW, I CAN DO THIS THING- holy shit I suck at this" and they mess up and have to practice and learn and only after they've learned to ride the bike, so to speak, can they become a Powerful Bad Ass.

Exactly! Okey, you don't have todo like five chapters about it but at least it makes sense and it's not like "Wooo I just discovered I can do magic" one minute and "writes super-complicated-spell-in-a-language-no-one-speaks-but-she/he-accidentally-knows-all-of-the-sudden-and-saves-the-world" the minute later.
I think if you just skip all the training part is just being lazy and making huge plot holes.

Ah, the eternally brooding vampire trope. Like, use all that free time to do something constructive, you bunch of bloodsucking sadsacks.

So true! If I didn't have to sleep or eat I would be so much productive.
They could paint, write make DIY crafts or whatever and instead they just sit there all day and just chillax.


Another trope came to my mind! That one character (usually female) that all the guys love for no apparent reason. She hasn't got one thing that makes her nice/funny/attractive/interesting but still everyone loves her. It's so frustrating. You're not even trying to justify this enamorment!
 

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Another trope came to my mind! That one character (usually female) that all the guys love for no apparent reason. She hasn't got one thing that makes her nice/funny/attractive/interesting but still everyone loves her. It's so frustrating. You're not even trying to justify this enamorment!

Or how about almost every YA book ever where the first relevant male character is the one the female character ends up with? I roll my eyes at this point. It's either the friend, or the mysterious stranger that they meet and spend too much time describing. I'm like okay, I get it, the author has already set you guys up. Yawn. I like it better when characters are platonic and accidentally fall in love throughout the series.

And on THAT note--am I the only one that gets mad when a book about Some Giant Even (usually a huge ass war, revolution, apocalypse, what have you) is going on, and the MC is a key player, but their biggest concern is their love interest??? I always want to shake them. Like, there is an invading army coming!! Who cares if whasisface is ignoring you? YOU HAVE TO FIGHT ORCS. It always feels so obnoxiously when lead characters are like "y'know, the world may be ending or w/e, but we're going to put all of that on hold and worry about our *feelings*" bruh you can worry about your feelings AFTER you've stopped the invading army from crushing everyone.