Can it be done?

Delilah J. Anders · Apr 25, 2017

LJD said:
This makes me wonder how familiar you actually are with the genre....why aren't you simply calling it erotic romance (?) and just because something is erotic doesn't mean there's no plot/development. And even a lot of non-erotic romances have reasonably explicit sex scenes.

Well, in initial delving into that world, I was introduced to another erotic author and followed her a bit and even read one of her books. She strictly categorizes herself as purely erotica, even though from skimming through portions of her other works there is some romance involved. I also was placing those titles on it from what I have read about on publishers pages and what they consider it to be based on content. I just wanted to make sure that when I put a genre on it, it is accurate enough to encompass what all is there so that an agent/publisher won't be thinking one thing and it's another. I used this description when I submitted to the aforementioned publisher and since this genre was a new category they were adding, she asked again and for me to be more explicit. She wanted to make sure there were actual sex scenes beyond the romance, so this is likely at least one reason I questioned the category identification. There are also a lot of sub sets to "romance" as well... I know I still have a lot to learn though

Delilah J. Anders · Apr 25, 2017

Unimportant said:
My first understanding is that erotica is driven by the sex: that is, if you cut out the explicit descriptions and just said 'and then they had sex' the entire plot would fall apart. The plotline itself is dependent on the sex. Erotic romance, then, would be a romance in which the relationship-plotline is driven by the sex activities themselves. Otherwise it's romance: the romance plotline would work regardless of sex frequency, type, etc. And romance can be anything from sweet fade-to-black to super-explicit.

My second understanding is that 50 Shades was originally self published stand-alone fanfic, and when it sold like wildfire was picked up by a commercial publisher. In a sense, the author proved that a book 'too long' for conventional wisdom could sell. But that doesn't necessarily extrapolate to other books, other first-time authors, or non-standalones.

Hiring an editor may be useful. Some of them -- Debra Doyle comes to mind -- will edit the first chapter for a cut rate, and that might help you to see if paying to have the whole thing edited will be of use in significantly reducing the word count of the whole manuscript.

Thank you and yes, that is a broad stroke of how I similarly categorize as well

Earthling · Apr 26, 2017

It sounds to me like you need to take several steps back; read a lot of romance novels, erotica novels, and erotic romance novels. Get to know the genre conventions and reader expectations. Decide what genre your story fits in and rework what you have with that knowledge. Then get some experienced beta readers who are readers/writers in that genre.

Only then would I think about how to split the manuscript, followed by querying or submitting to publishers.

FWIW I was in the same boat as you - wrote a romance without meaning to - and had to do the same thing. I didn't have word count issues but that manuscript got me my agent.

Also FWIW, my agent has subbed a 97k contemporary romance and none of the editors batted an eyelid at the word count. Anything in six figures will make them twitchy.

Thomas Vail · Apr 26, 2017

Earthling said:
It sounds to me like you need to take several steps back; read a lot of romance novels, erotica novels, and erotic romance novels. Get to know the genre conventions and reader expectations. Decide what genre your story fits in and rework what you have with that knowledge. Then get some experienced beta readers who are readers/writers in that genre.

Only then would I think about how to split the manuscript, followed by querying or submitting to publishers.

FWIW I was in the same boat as you - wrote a romance without meaning to - and had to do the same thing. I didn't have word count issues but that manuscript got me my agent.

Also FWIW, my agent has subbed a 97k contemporary romance and none of the editors batted an eyelid at the word count. Anything in six figures will make them twitchy.

At that point you're running into mechanical difficulties beyond the story itself. Stephen King might be able to get away with a book three times the normal width due to his proven track record, but along with taking up a lot of space on the shelf, there's limits to book binding and paper strength that would make something that size very difficult to keep together with the stresses of reading.

Delilah J. Anders · Apr 26, 2017

Thanks so much everyone for all the advice and tips.. I have taken notes and will be doing some research on those and more of what I already have lined up. Along with learning more from you all here and on my own maybe I can realize my dream one day! Thanks again!

madjack · Apr 27, 2017

Sara Megibow just retweeted another agents tweet that said:

"Authors, if you know your wordcount is high for the genre ... edit before querying! Don't tell us it could be split if needed. #querytip"

Seemed relevant to this thread so thought I'd post.

Wishing you all the best, Delilah! (I think Sara may be one of those agents that might like your genre. I think!

)

CEtchison · Apr 28, 2017

madjack said:
Sara Megibow just retweeted another agents tweet that said:

"Authors, if you know your wordcount is high for the genre ... edit before querying! Don't tell us it could be split if needed. #querytip"

Seemed relevant to this thread so thought I'd post.

Wishing you all the best, Delilah! (I think Sara may be one of those agents that might like your genre. I think! )

Considering she reps both Tiffany Reisz and Roni Loren, two authors who write erotic romance, I would say I agree with that statement.

If the OP hasn't already, I would suggest researching/reading Tiffany Reisz's Original Sinners series.

ETA: It's great that you've got 350K words written down, but that doesn't mean you have a sellable book. I've seen a ton of authors who have written great stories but query them anyway knowing they have major problems and then they wonder why they get rejected. While it's true a manuscript doesn't have to be absolutely perfect, it's far better to have it as close to perfect as possible. If you send that on to an agent and say "Yeah, there are issues but I think maybe we could do x or y or z with it..." then that agent is going to look at you as someone who was unwilling to learn the craft, unwilling to do the necessary work and now expects someone else to solve the problem. That's like making a cake or something and using baking soda instead of baking powder and then handing it to Gordon Ramsey and saying "Well, I know it's kinda of screwed up, but I bet you can fix it before we send it out to the customer." Part of this business is showing you have the willingness and intestinal fortitude to learn the work and do what's needed to produce a quality book.

I would suggest looking into Michael Hauge's Six Stages of Story Structure or Gwen Hayes's Romancing the Beat. Either will help you determine if your story structure/pacing is sound.

Delilah J. Anders · Apr 28, 2017

THANKS! I will look into that.. it's on my agenda for my wild Saturday night! lol All this advice is the very reason I decided to find my way here.. I knew it would be invaluable!!

LJD · Apr 28, 2017

CEtchison said:
Gwen Hernandez's Romancing the Plot

Did you mean Gwen Hayes's Romancing the Beat?

Old Hack · Apr 29, 2017

I don't think you should pay an editor--at least, not at this stage. Work on the book a bit more. Edit it hard, cut out all the extraneous stuff you can, and then see how you can split it into a series of more manageable books. Each one has to be complete in itself, with a proper story arc and well-developed characters, and that's going to give you a lot of work to do.

While you're doing this, read a lot of successful books in your chosen genre so you can see how things work, and what you've got to aim for.

But don't query it as it is now, because all you will get is auto-rejections and you'll not be able to requery those agents with the same project if you do decide to cut it down after.

Delilah J. Anders · Apr 29, 2017

Old Hack said:
I don't think you should pay an editor--at least, not at this stage. Work on the book a bit more. Edit it hard, cut out all the extraneous stuff you can, and then see how you can split it into a series of more manageable books. Each one has to be complete in itself, with a proper story arc and well-developed characters, and that's going to give you a lot of work to do.

While you're doing this, read a lot of successful books in your chosen genre so you can see how things work, and what you've got to aim for.

But don't query it as it is now, because all you will get is auto-rejections and you'll not be able to requery those agents with the same project if you do decide to cut it down after.

Thanks ! This was the path my mind was kind of going in what to do next.. like most writers, I assume, your mind is constantly going over, thinking of or writing story no matter what you're doing.. and this is exactly what I've been mulling over. Trying to figure out where to break them up and writing /editing to have an end/start for the next.. I need to also find a true beta reader it seems. Although I have had several read it and give feedback, it appears that a beta is someone with a bit more specificity in feedback and writing knowledge, so I gotta find me one of those too.. perhaps they will also be able to give me some pointers on breaking it up and editing.

At least when i do get it to a point it's ready to query, I have a great list of agents already made from research I've done thus far.

cornflake · Apr 29, 2017

There are several things you can do to move in the direction you want. Obviously, as you're doing, ponder the story, the book, etc., to see what you feel you can cut, break up, yada. Read in the genre. Crit stuff here, in the SYW section. It doesn't have to be in your genre; start critting. It'll give you a feel for a variety of basic things and some insight into where you are.

Once you've got 50 posts, you can post a section of your own work for crit if you wish. That can help you figure out if you've got too much story (in which case you'd need to break up into multiple books, rework arcs), or you overwrite (in which case you can likely cut a lot back first), both, something else...

Critiquing helps you become part of the community. The more people you get to know, the easier it is to find willing beta readers. There's a beta forum in which you can post a request. Lots of people have found longstanding, super helpful betas from hanging around the forums and making friends.

CEtchison · Apr 30, 2017

LJD said:
Did you mean Gwen Hayes's Romancing the Beat?

Yes. That one. lol

Delilah J. Anders · May 1, 2017

cornflake said:
There are several things you can do to move in the direction you want. Obviously, as you're doing, ponder the story, the book, etc., to see what you feel you can cut, break up, yada. Read in the genre. Crit stuff here, in the SYW section. It doesn't have to be in your genre; start critting. It'll give you a feel for a variety of basic things and some insight into where you are.

Once you've got 50 posts, you can post a section of your own work for crit if you wish. That can help you figure out if you've got too much story (in which case you'd need to break up into multiple books, rework arcs), or you overwrite (in which case you can likely cut a lot back first), both, something else...

Critiquing helps you become part of the community. The more people you get to know, the easier it is to find willing beta readers. There's a beta forum in which you can post a request. Lots of people have found longstanding, super helpful betas from hanging around the forums and making friends.

Thank you!!

Can it be done?

Delilah J. Anders

Delilah J. Anders

Earthling

I come in peace

Thomas Vail

What?

Delilah J. Anders

madjack

CEtchison

Delilah J. Anders

LJD

Old Hack

Such a nasty woman

Delilah J. Anders

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

CEtchison

Delilah J. Anders