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Thread: Aaron Hernandez dead

  1. #1
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    Aaron Hernandez dead

    Former football star and convicted murderer Aaron Hernandez is dead. Links are everywhere. Official story is suicide in his prison cell.

    An end to a story in which there were no winners.

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  2. #2
    Lost in the Fog rugcat's Avatar
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    He was a violent and dangerous individual. He was also a skilled football player who made millions of dollars, which is why his arrest and conviction for murder became such a big news story. Many in both the sports world and in the media have termed his story a tragedy. See, he was a great football player.

    The only tragedy was that this murderer was free for so long to destroy so many other people's lives. The sooner he's forgotten the better.
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    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    I think the tragedy was that he had an out from earlier bad choices and didn't take it.

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  5. #5
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    I don't exactly lament Hernandez's death. He's a pretty keen example of "you reap what you sow." But the suicide is pretty damn surprising. He had just been acquitted of two other murders, and his attorney was very gung-ho about the appeal of the first conviction. And this is when Hernandez hangs himself? And writes the number of a bible scripture on his forehead?

    I'm reading he may have smoked synthetic marijuana, though. That might explain it. Weird.
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  6. #6
    Did...did I do that? cmhbob's Avatar
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    He is no longer a convicted murderer.

    Under Massachusetts law, so I'm told, if you die while your conviction is under appeal, the conviction goes away. His murder convictions were under automatic appeal, so they will likely be vacated. That primarily affects any civil cases; they won't be able to say he was convicted of the crime.

    Same thing happened to Ken Lay of Enron fame. He died prior to sentencing and while his convictions were being appealed. Defrocked Roman Catholic priest John Geoghan also died while his cases were being appealed.
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  7. #7
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Yeah, there's kind of exactly nothing in his past that suggests any capacity for responsibility or remorse for anything at all that'd lead to suicide. He's not exactly been a model of introspection and self-awareness; more like epic entitlement and self-centeredness. His joy at the acquittal and plans for appeal on the other charge wouldn't seem to lead anyplace close to suicide either.

    Drugs can do strange things, but so can enemies. He was no stranger to serious gang shit.

  8. #8
    People are not wearing enough hats JJ Litke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    Yeah, there's kind of exactly nothing in his past that suggests any capacity for responsibility or remorse for anything at all that'd lead to suicide. He's not exactly been a model of introspection and self-awareness; more like epic entitlement and self-centeredness. His joy at the acquittal and plans for appeal on the other charge wouldn't seem to lead anyplace close to suicide either.
    This is what I thought, too. And while I also don't lament his death, it's deeply disturbing to me that it's so easy for someone to "commit suicide" in prison. Then it's pretty much just shrugged off.
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  9. #9
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ Litke View Post
    This is what I thought, too. And while I also don't lament his death, it's deeply disturbing to me that it's so easy for someone to "commit suicide" in prison. Then it's pretty much just shrugged off.
    Yeah, this is part of the problem -- not anything in your post, the general public's attitude toward prison crimes. Bad things happening to those generally considered bad people who probably 'deserve' it are just met with shrugs.

    Aside from that going against the whole kind of theory of law and justice we're meant to be operating under, there are plenty of people who are not 'bad' people, and there are things even 'bad people' don't 'deserve,' and this is how we end up with Sandra Bland as well.

  10. #10
    Did...did I do that? cmhbob's Avatar
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    The appeal was automatic under Mass law, if I understand it correctly.

    The suicide though may affect the civil case, since the conviction will now be vacated.
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    practical experience, FTW MaeZe's Avatar
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    He was acquitted of two murders but still serving life for killing Odin Lloyd. I don't think suicide is surprising under the circumstances.

    If any good comes of this, and I doubt that's likely, it would be calling attention to preventable problems in prisons.

    Aaron Hernandez’s Death Highlights A Serious Problem - The latest available federal data showed that prison suicides were on the rise in 2014.
    Hernandez wasn’t new to confinement: He was already serving a sentence of life without parole. But his apparent suicide occurred less than a week after he was acquitted on separate charges stemming from the murder of two other people. During the trial, he had contact with his family — including his 4-year-old daughter — in a different capacity than he would have once back in prison. That kind of event is a trigger “that could increase his risk of harming himself,” says Eric Balaban, a senior staff counsel with the National Prison Project at the American Civil Liberties Union. That raises the question of whether Hernandez’s mental health status was evaluated during or after the trial.
    If it weren't for so many convicted men being found innocent by the Innocence Project, and the recent cases that have come to light over Riker's Prison in NY where people awaiting trial have languished for years in intolerable conditions, I might have less empathy. But the injustice calls for empathy.

  12. #12
    down the rabbit hole of research... CWatts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    Yeah, this is part of the problem -- not anything in your post, the general public's attitude toward prison crimes. Bad things happening to those generally considered bad people who probably 'deserve' it are just met with shrugs.

    Aside from that going against the whole kind of theory of law and justice we're meant to be operating under, there are plenty of people who are not 'bad' people, and there are things even 'bad people' don't 'deserve,' and this is how we end up with Sandra Bland as well.
    This. I don't have sympathy for Hernandez, but I do for his 4-year-old daughter.

    Please also note that plenty of "bad people" can decide to turn their lives around. Just yesterday I was listening to the NPR profile of former drug dealer Steven Mallory, who was interviewed in the mid-90s when he first went straight. Today he is a middle-class family man. http://www.npr.org/2017/04/19/524725...is-life-around

  13. #13
    at least he died doing what he loved.
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    Special Snowflake? No. Hailstone RedRajah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ Litke View Post
    This is what I thought, too. And while I also don't lament his death, it's deeply disturbing to me that it's so easy for someone to "commit suicide" in prison. Then it's pretty much just shrugged off.
    Same feeling I had when Ariel Castro died in prison in Cleveland.

  15. #15
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    Hernandez is not unlike a lot of young men. Their athletic talents are what make them strong and tough on the streets; their gang activities are what make them hard as nails for their sports. But for every story about a kid who pulled himself out of the gangs and took advantage of the opportunity sports provided, there are a dozen more forgotten stories about those who either can't, or refuse to, shake the old ties. The only thing a little different about Hernandez's story is that he actually made it big at the pro level before it all caught up with him. Most don't make it through high school sports, and definitely not college. Still, there are a whole lot of thugs playing in the NBA and NFL. Guys, like Hernandez, who still are influenced by a posse they won't separate from.

  16. #16
    All about that action, boss. ElaineA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWatts View Post
    Please also note that plenty of "bad people" can decide to turn their lives around. Just yesterday I was listening to the NPR profile of former drug dealer Steven Mallory, who was interviewed in the mid-90s when he first went straight. Today he is a middle-class family man. http://www.npr.org/2017/04/19/524725...is-life-around
    I heard that, It was such a great piece, but the difference there is Mr. Mallory made an active decision as a teenager to get out of the biz, and he did. He took that job at a garbage dump and never missed a paycheck from that day on. Hernandez is a much different story, as Brave Sir Robin says

    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
    Hernandez is not unlike a lot of young men. Their athletic talents are what make them strong and tough on the streets; their gang activities are what make them hard as nails for their sports. But for every story about a kid who pulled himself out of the gangs and took advantage of the opportunity sports provided, there are a dozen more forgotten stories about those who either can't, or refuse to, shake the old ties. The only thing a little different about Hernandez's story is that he actually made it big at the pro level before it all caught up with him. Most don't make it through high school sports, and definitely not college. Still, there are a whole lot of thugs playing in the NBA and NFL. Guys, like Hernandez, who still are influenced by a posse they won't separate from.
    Hernandez didn't leave that life. He drug it along with him.

    Even though he was acquitted of the latest murders, I'm sure there are people affiliated with their people in that prison. The only thing that gives me pause in this case are the "items piled against the door." Only someone inside the cell could have done that. Of course, that assumes it was as it appeared. It could have been he was reaching out with his legs to shove things at the door to try to get attention and help. He's a tall dude, and cells aren't very big.

    The whole jail suicide thing is just so suspect to me. Even if it happens that it's unquestionably suicide. We had one here this week, of a seriously mentally ill 20-year-old mass-shooter. He had confessed on police questioning, but not yet entered a plea while they were evaluating whether he was competent to stand trial. He was being held in the smaller county's jail where the crime occurred, then was moved to a facility in the neighboring larger county because he had been talking to other inmates about the crime, making them potential witnesses.

    In order for him to hang himself, someone had to take their eye off him for a pretty long time. A man with known mental illness that manifests in violence. IDK what's to be done about keeping a closer eye on things and also not run afoul of privacy concerns, but it's damn easy to either commit suicide, or for jails to claim that's what happened, and no one the wiser. The Sandra Bland thing still preys on my mind.
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  17. #17
    practical experience, FTW cornflake's Avatar
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    You don't have privacy in jail. If someone is a known suicide risk, they should be stripped of anything they can reasonably off themselves with, and the officers should be keeping a log detailing their every-15-minute checks. That's fairly basic procedure. There are more stringent ones -- different cells, cameras, a guard literally sitting outside, etc.

  18. #18
    practical experience, FTW chompers's Avatar
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    Someone pointed out that prison doors don't swing in. They either swing out or they slide to the side. So that kind of knocks out the barricading thing, the one thing that's stumping people.

    And the Bible verse thing? To me it points even more towards murder. I can't see Aaron Hernandez ever reading the Bible, let alone picking out a verse to write on his own forehead. I wonder which verse it was?

  19. #19
    Are you one, Herbert? Prozyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chompers View Post
    Someone pointed out that prison doors don't swing in. They either swing out or they slide to the side. So that kind of knocks out the barricading thing, the one thing that's stumping people.

    And the Bible verse thing? To me it points even more towards murder. I can't see Aaron Hernandez ever reading the Bible, let alone picking out a verse to write on his own forehead. I wonder which verse it was?
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  20. #20
    practical experience, FTW Lauram6123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chompers View Post

    And the Bible verse thing? To me it points even more towards murder. I can't see Aaron Hernandez ever reading the Bible, let alone picking out a verse to write on his own forehead. I wonder which verse it was?
    Apparently he used to participate in Bible study while at Florida.

    Florida Coach Urban Meyer told N.F.L. coaches that Hernandez had been rehabilitated and that Meyer himself had led him in daily Bible study sessions.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/s...hernandez.html

  21. #21
    practical experience, FTW B.D. Eyeslie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    You don't have privacy in jail. If someone is a known suicide risk, they should be stripped of anything they can reasonably off themselves with, and the officers should be keeping a log detailing their every-15-minute checks. That's fairly basic procedure. There are more stringent ones -- different cells, cameras, a guard literally sitting outside, etc.
    He was never a known suicide risk. The only reason he was initially put on suicide watch is because all new inmates at that facility are.
    Last edited by B.D. Eyeslie; 04-20-2017 at 08:27 PM.

  22. #22
    practical experience, FTW chompers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauram6123 View Post
    Apparently he used to participate in Bible study while at Florida.



    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/19/s...hernandez.html
    Oh, yes, the Tim Tebow thing. But that didn't work, as far as I know.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornflake View Post
    This is just... suspicious.
    Not really. Hernandez was serving life with no parole for a murder he committed because Odin Loyd mentioned the double homicide to someone. The evidence in the double homicide was nowhere near strong enough for a conviction, just the allegation. It was hearsay and circumstantial. Proof was the double acquittal. The murder of Odin Loyd was a step by step model for how to leave an evidence trail a mile wide, guaranteeing getting get caught and convicted of murder. Had he not killed Loyd it is possible Hernandez never would have stood trial for the double homicide or beaten the charges as he did.

    He is alleged to have killed those 2 men for spilling a drink of him in a nightclub. Hernandez was a violent, sociopath, who was a decade long thug, gang member and criminal. Piss on his football accomplishments.
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    New year, new avatar. hester's Avatar
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    There's some talk that his family plans to donate his brain for the purpose of finding out if he suffered from CTE--

    Which occurred to me after hearing about the suicide--maybe he was suffering from some behavioral changes due to brain damage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hester View Post
    There's some talk that his family plans to donate his brain for the purpose of finding out if he suffered from CTE--

    Which occurred to me after hearing about the suicide--maybe he was suffering from some behavioral changes due to brain damage?
    This would definitely go against the norm for the CTE cases. I don't claim any inside or medical info with Hernandez, but being familiar with the real CTE cases and also with his history, I would be surprised if Hernandez was symptomatic. It would be nice to think that he had some outlying reason for his illegal and reckless behavior. But I'm betting on immaturity, poor social/societal skills, and low intelligence, all of which could be considered brain-related, as well.

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